Sky Sports and LOI Floodlights

[A face]

Does anyone know the full story behind Sky Sports and them being allowed to broadcast in Ireland, and League of Ireland clubs being compensated with flood lights being installed for each club.

Who was the Minister for Sport and Minster for Commuications as the time?
Who in the FAI was involved and agree to these terms?

[Rovers Maniac]

Pretty certain the FAI were involved in it but i am not 100% certain of that either. To be honest i think it was a positive deal for the league, floodlights should have been of a higher quality.

Actually clubs were offered a very standard floodlight and then if they paid so much extra themselves they got a higher standard of one. We paid the extra and pretty certain Athlone and Harps did not but again can't be certain of that.

[Dodge]

Best decision ever made by the FAI.

[sligored]

Does anyone know the full story behind Sky Sports and them being allowed to broadcast in Ireland, and League of Ireland clubs being compensated with flood lights being installed for each club.

Who was the Minister for Sport and Minster for Commuications as the time?
Who in the FAI was involved and agree to these terms?

this was brought in in 1992-1993 due to the sunday afternoon clashes with the newly formed premiership.

There was no such office as a minister for sport although i am open to correction if there was a junior minister. See below

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/

This increased crowds in sligo significantly at the time as it co-incided with one of our most successful periods under the manager willie mcstay.
The showgrounds used to have fairly regular crowds in excess of 3000 people at the time.

[Dodge]

I think the cost of upgrading the floodlights was £7,000. Most clubs did it. Pats were very lucky, and got in at the tail end of this and the floodlights in Richmond were turned on in January 2004 (we moved back to Richmond in December 2003)

Most clubs still wouldn't have floodlights if it wasn't for this deal. Anyone remember cup replays being played on Tuesday afternoons?

[redobit]

Pretty certain the FAI were involved in it but i am not 100% certain of that either. To be honest i think it was a positive deal for the league, floodlights should have been of a higher quality.

Actually clubs were offered a very standard floodlight and then if they paid so much extra themselves they got a higher standard of one. We paid the extra and pretty certain Athlone and Harps did not but again can't be certain of that.

Ya, we paid extra and got lights brought up to UEFA standard. Thats why we were able to play Club Brugge under lights that year. Ive also heard that the bulbs for those floodlights (the ones in the showgies anyway) are no longer being made and are hard to get.

[Dodge]

Ya, we paid extra and got lights brought up to UEFA standard. Thats why we were able to play Club Brugge under lights that year. Ive also heard that the bulbs for those floodlights (the ones in the showgies anyway) are no longer being made and are hard to get.

Pats had to upgrade again last year for UEFA, and it cost a fortune. Not sure whether the UEFA standard has rose, or whether the problem mentioned above is the reason

[HarpoJoyce]

I think most have given the circumstances already.

Sky Sports (BskyB?) had to compensate under UEFA rules (I believe UEFA rules not European Community) as they officially broadcasted Sunday afternoon games into the Republic and so the juristiction of the League of Ireland. As most games were on Sunday afternoons.
ITV were doing the same thing for a few years but they did not broadcast officially and were not liable. Viewers benefitted with ITV through illegal boosters at least.
It was effectively an understanding that LoI change their day of matches or no broadcast of foreign games on primary match days.

Dalymount, Oriel, Tolka and Belfield were the only Stadia that had floodlights. Belfield installed ours a couple of years before and opened with a Shield Final first leg against Waterford Utd. I remember our Lux (measurement of enviromental light) was less than the standard 'Sky' lights. As our lights were already installed UCD were to receive cash instead.

I believe it was UEFA rules and obviously presented by FAI. I don't remember any resistance from the broadcasters who were already notorious by then.

[Rovers Maniac]

I think the cost of upgrading the floodlights was £7,000. Most clubs did it. Pats were very lucky, and got in at the tail end of this and the floodlights in Richmond were turned on in January 2004 (we moved back to Richmond in December 2003)

Most clubs still wouldn't have floodlights if it wasn't for this deal. Anyone remember cup replays being played on Tuesday afternoons?

Yes i remember that alright, i remember Rovers having a home cup replay v Derry in the Showgrounds that finished 0-0. I think most of Summerhill was at the game and there was que for students to get in. It is far better as it is now but in a weird way i miss stuff like that from the league.


Ya, we paid extra and got lights brought up to UEFA standard. Thats why we were able to play Club Brugge under lights that year. Ive also heard that the bulbs for those floodlights (the ones in the showgies anyway) are no longer being made and are hard to get.

Yes i have heard this as well.

[pete]

Not sure whether the UEFA standard has rose, or whether the problem mentioned above is the reason

Fairly sure that Uefa standards have been rising. We were able to play Uefa Cup 1st round at the cross a few years ago but not sure if we could any more.

[Dodge]

You defintely couldn't. Pats looked into it this year and the only grounds eligible for our game v berlin were Croke Park and the RDS

Floodlights weren't the issue though

[eelmonster]

Dalymount, Oriel, Tolka and Belfield were the only Stadia that had floodlights.


I think the Brandywell had floodlights by 89/90 too, I vaguely remember a 'Paisley bought you floodlights' chant in Oriel around the time.

[KianD]

I think the cost of upgrading the floodlights was £7,000. Most clubs did it. Pats were very lucky, and got in at the tail end of this and the floodlights in Richmond were turned on in January 2004 (we moved back to Richmond in December 2003)

Most clubs still wouldn't have floodlights if it wasn't for this deal. Anyone remember cup replays being played on Tuesday afternoons?

199x rather than 200x there or has my brain totally melted?

[A face]

Does anyone else think we should have got more for it?

I'd be thinking something along the lines of an annual fee, remuneration for the damage the foreign games being broadcasted here are doing to the league. No one can deny that it severely damages the league, untold damage in my opinion and all we got for it was poxy floodlights. I think we really got short changed here.

Could the League of Ireland ever take it further and make a case for it?

[KianD]

Does anyone else think we should have got more for it?

I'd be thinking something along the lines of an annual fee, remuneration for the damage the foreign games being broadcasted here are doing to the league. No one can deny that it severely damages the league, untold damage in my opinion and all we got for it was poxy floodlights. I think we really got short changed here.

Could the League of Ireland ever take it further and make a case for it?

And could Setanta, as another official broadcaster of games, be persued? Might be a bad idea what with the Setanta Cup and them covering LOI games though....

[A face]

And could Setanta, as another official broadcaster of games, be persued? Might be a bad idea what with the Setanta Cup and them covering LOI games though....

A case could be made that they are adding value to the league as opposed to damaging it though.

And something along the lines of ratio of hours of coverage and football of foreign leagues to domestic league.

For example - Foreign : Domestic

100 hrs coverage and 80 hrs football : 50 hrs coverage and 40 hrs football

And if they wont do the coverage pay us €10,000 an hour (or is that too little) for all the foreign coverage they show.

[noby]

I would imagine it was seen as a one-off good deal fifteen years ago, and trying to take it further now would be seen as greed. Not that I would be against pursuing SKY, but I'm not sure how far you'd get.

[Dodge]

199x rather than 200x there or has my brain totally melted?

jaysus, sorry yeah, 1993. :o


Does anyone else think we should have got more for it?
Nope


I'd be thinking something along the lines of an annual fee, remuneration for the damage the foreign games being broadcasted here are doing to the league. No one can deny that it severely damages the league, untold damage in my opinion and all we got for it was poxy floodlights. I think we really got short changed here.
There had been Sunday games live on ITV for many years before the Sky deal. As harpo pointed out, they had no obligation to do anything


Could the League of Ireland ever take it further and make a case for it?
No.

[gspain]

AFAIK the rule then that allowed us to claim compensation no longer applies.

It was generally accepted at the time as being a great deal for the league.

I remember plenty of cup replays on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday afternoons. In general they were very well attended and an excuse to skip school or work.

[all drogged up]

probabky too long in the past for a court case - UEFA might consider it at the next renegotiation of Sky's licence to Broadcast in Ireland - presumably the govt issue licenses that aren't indefinite. Change the terms at next opportunity would be only option.

I think in fairness that horse has bolted ...

[soccerc]

I Pats were very lucky, and got in at the tail end of this and the floodlights in Richmond were turned on in January 2004 (we moved back to Richmond in December 2003)

:eek: Really?

[Dodge]

:eek: Really?

Read the thread man, its been covered :D

[soccerc]

Read the thread man, its been covered :D

I did, I know but couldn't resist it ;)

[Dodge]

I fully understand

[A face]

I would imagine it was seen as a one-off good deal fifteen years ago,

Why good? And who saw it as that? Compared to the damage its doing, just how good is it?


and trying to take it further now would be seen as greed.

Whos greed though, Sky broadcasting, in a completely different country at the cost of the domestic country's league ..... yup, thats greed alright.

Agreed, the LOI should have told them where to go initially, maybe it was a lack of greed at the time, or a lack of self-preservation at the time.


Not that I would be against pursuing SKY, but I'm not sure how far you'd get.

Theres always a case there if you


There had been Sunday games live on ITV for many years before the Sky deal. As harpo pointed out, they had no obligation to do anything

ITV didn't have right to broadcast here, and it doesn't jusify it either. The league is suffering as a result so it should be made their obligation.

There is definitely grounds to take it further, its just it never will unless we have a Minister for Sport or someone that would champion the cause for the domestic game.




We shouldn't just have to roll over and die anyway as being suggested.

[stann]

Does anyone else think we should have got more for it?

I'd be thinking something along the lines of an annual fee, remuneration for the damage the foreign games being broadcasted here are doing to the league. No one can deny that it severely damages the league, untold damage in my opinion and all we got for it was poxy floodlights. I think we really got short changed here.

Could the League of Ireland ever take it further and make a case for it?

This is pernickety even for you Face. :p
Let it go man, it was 15 years ago! :D
So no, we can't get anything more out of it. Apart from the league looking like money grubbing shysters. "Ahhhh, I meant a tax on not wearing puffy pants!" anyone?

[noby]

Why good? And who saw it as that? Compared to the damage its doing, just how good is it?




Why good? Because clubs got floodlights.
Comparing it to damage done is hindsight; I'm saying that at the time it may have looked as a good deal.

Any attempt now will smack of 'SKY have made millions, so we changed our mind and want a bigger slice of the cake'.

[A face]

Let it go man, it was 15 years ago! :D

No its not .... its each and every single year from now to the year dot, and people think we should do nothing about it. Maybe we should have done something about it long before now and we wouldn't have the league crumbling around us.


Any attempt now will smack of 'SKY have made millions, so we changed our mind and want a bigger slice of the cake'.

Thats the idea ..... its all about the cake, not just crumbs to keep us down happy. If only we had someone with a bit of bottle in the league :rolleyes:

[stann]

OK then, why not look for compensation off the GAA and IRFU too for taking punters away from our league?
Some people miss games because they're on holidays, shameful! Let's have a word with the ITAA!
Many people can't go because of work, and that should not go unpunished either. Let's start an email campaign against IBEC!

It's too late.
Whether you think we got a good deal for the time or not is immaterial. It's TOO LATE now.
Just let it lie a few days, you'll soon have something else to bash the FAI about. Something that maybe someone can do something about. :)

[A face]

OK then, why not look for compensation off the GAA and IRFU too for taking punters away from our league.
Some people miss games because they're on holidays, shameful! Let's have a word with the ITAA!
Many people can't go because of work, and that should not go unpunished either. Let's start an email campaign against IBEC!

It's too late.
Whether you think we got a good deal for the time or not is immaterial. It's TOO LATE now.

You're being silly now Stann, come on, i expected more from you :rolleyes:

[stann]

Might be a bit of a reductio ad absurdum but it's basically what you are saying.
"Sky's Premiership coverage is affecting our attendances, they should pay for this."
Why stop there if you're so convinced of the righteousness of the case is all I'm saying. There's many other factors affecting the crowds.

To me, the reason why we shouldn't revisit the Sky deal is that, even if there was a case before, the time to push it has long, long gone. Now it only smacks of greed, desperation, and pure sulky self-pity.
As I said above, there'll soon be another reason to bash the FAI more worthy of your talents and attention.

And stop replying to my posts before I've finished them! :D

[sligored]

sligo could get compensation for sky showing la liga games on saturday nights. i know the last barca madrid derby resulted in a few barstoolers not falling off their stools into the showgrounds.

i think this is the reason sky are not allowed to show premiership games on a friday night even though i feel it would be primetime viewing.

[Dodge]

Not for the first time a face, geta grip man. Sky are NOT the reason why the league's in bits.

[harps1954]

I remember a bit about the time this happened. The LOI (as it was back then - the clubs made the decision, not the FAI) were going to prevent Sky from showing live games on a Sunday afternoon to Sky subscribers in Ireland. However, an agreement between the Clubs and Sky was that Sky would pay for the installation of floodlights at all LOI grounds so that the LOI clubs could move their matches to Friday/Saturday nights. At the time, the clubs accepted this and it was generally felt by everyone at the time that this was a great move for the LOI.

Let's look at it another way. If the LOI were successful in preventing Sky from showing live Premiership matches on a Sunday afternoon to Irish subscribers, do you think that there would be more people attending LOI games on a Sunday. The reason I say this is because most clubs would NOT have spent the money themselves to install floodlights and we would still be looking at a situation of 2.30pm kick-offs on a Sunday afternoon (going up against nearly every Junior football fixture in the country where a decent percentage of those playing actually attend LOI games). Cup replays, European games and midweek fixtures still being played in the afternoon. Not to mention the Setanta Cup.

I have no doubt that clubs made the correct decision in accepting the deal from Sky in the 90's. Remember, it was my club and your club that made this decision. By playing on a Friday/Saturday night, every club in the country will tell you that it's still better than playing on a Sunday afternoon - and not just because their is live UK football on TV.

Just look back to the 80's when football on TV was on very, very little - even on a Sunday afternoon. There wasn't exactly thousands at LOI games back then. The problem for poor attendances runs a lot deeper than Sky TV showing live football on a Sunday. The problem was in the LOI long before Sky TV were even heard of.

[noby]

Yes, but SKY are rich now, so we should demand more money from them. [/skewed logic]

[Dodge]

great post harps1954

[dublinred]

As we and a few other clubs play on Sat nights should we ask RTE for compensation for showing the premiership at the same time ? Maybe a % of the advertising revenue

[A face]

I remember a bit about the time this happened. The LOI (as it was back then - the clubs made the decision, not the FAI) were going to prevent Sky from showing live games on a Sunday afternoon to Sky subscribers in Ireland. However, an agreement between the Clubs and Sky was that Sky would pay for the installation of floodlights at all LOI grounds so that the LOI clubs could move their matches to Friday/Saturday nights. At the time, the clubs accepted this and it was generally felt by everyone at the time that this was a great move for the LOI.

So its the chairman of the day in each club who was resonsible in leaving this go through so yeah?


Let's look at it another way. If the LOI were successful in preventing Sky from showing live Premiership matches on a Sunday afternoon to Irish subscribers, do you think that there would be more people attending LOI games on a Sunday. The reason I say this is because most clubs would NOT have spent the money themselves to install floodlights and we would still be looking at a situation of 2.30pm kick-offs on a Sunday afternoon (going up against nearly every Junior football fixture in the country where a decent percentage of those playing actually attend LOI games). Cup replays, European games and midweek fixtures still being played in the afternoon. Not to mention the Setanta Cup.

You can just say that every club would not have lights installed, someone said that even UCD had them at the time so that doesn't stand up. Alot of junior clubs have them now so its not plausible to say otherwise.

Clubs have actually made some progress by themselves, all on their own, without sky, for themselves under their own steam .... imagine that.


I have no doubt that clubs made the correct decision in accepting the deal from Sky in the 90's. Remember, it was my club and your club that made this decision. By playing on a Friday/Saturday night, every club in the country will tell you that it's still better than playing on a Sunday afternoon - and not just because their is live UK football on TV.

Who was the chairman of the league at that time?


Just look back to the 80's when football on TV was on very, very little - even on a Sunday afternoon. There wasn't exactly thousands at LOI games back then. The problem for poor attendances runs a lot deeper than Sky TV showing live football on a Sunday. The problem was in the LOI long before Sky TV were even heard of.

There is one thing for sure ..... it aint helping it. And i'm not suggesting that this is the one and only problem with our league, i'm not suggesting that resolving it is the shot in the arm that all the clubs need. Its obviously just one element. And logically, to break it down, you isolate the problems and look at them on their own. Thats what i'm doing. Fair enough if people are dismissive or flipant but there definitely is something to this. To say otherwise is wrong.

[sligored]

i dont agree aface. i cant figure the point you are trying to make.
this is not creating any problem in the running of the league of ireland. if you can show any evidence that the sky sports subsidy towards the installation of floodlights has had any negative effect on our league, i may reconsider.
But in the absence of this i feel this was a great deal for sligo rovers at the time

[OneRedArmy]

AFace, sorry to be blunt, but what part of the statement "we aren't eligible for compensation anymore" don't you understand?

It was the best deal possible at the time as if Sky had taken it to the European courts they may well have got to show the matches with no compensation.

[A face]

Its the off season and this is just something i want to find out about, so here's a thread on it.

I cant remember the whole deal but i just remember all the existing LOI Clubs at the time were pawned off with the installation of floodlights and that was it, event though the impact of the deal resulted in untold damage to the domestic league. Sky began a Direct Broadcast by satellite system in and around 1984.

When did the deal get signed on the dotted line? If it was around 1984 then it was Fine Gaels Garret FitzGerald in power at the time (until 1987), and Minsters for Communications at the time are listed here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Communications). Which TD was involved in the deal at the time of negotiations?

Who was in charge of the FAI at the time? Brendan Menton was 1980-1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Menton,_Sr.), Who in the FAI agreed that floodlights would be ample compensation for LOI clubs. Which clubs got those lights?

Does anyone know if Sky have to pay annually for the privilege to broadcast here? Have they had to pay for that since 1984? Have the FAI / LOI club ever got any other payment for this?


I think Bishopstown, Cork got floodlights which were later moved to Turners Cross.

[Sunny Jim]

I reckon you are about ten years too early there, it was the early 90's iirc.

[A face]

I reckon you are about ten years too early there, it was the early 90's iirc.

I dunno, it was definitely before the 1990s i would have thought. I think i read somewhere that it was a done deal by 1989, as in no coming back from it.


Direct broadcast satellite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_broadcast_satellite) service has been available since the late 1980s with the arrival of free-to-air satellite Astra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_%28satellite%29) and subscription service Sky Television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_%28UK_and_Ireland%29).

That was taken from this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland) .... Under the Satellite Title.

I would love to get some info on who brokered the deal first day, what was involved, etc. Surely some of this info in available now under the data protection act. Anyone know how to go about it?

[Louth4sam]

Five years ago you asked the same question! Also in the close season :)

http://foot.ie/archive/index.php/t-105697.html

Mod: Merged threads

[Dodge]

It was when Sky start showing the Premier League. How could you possibly think it was any earlier? Any club who applied got money towards their floodlights. I know Pats were one

There's no annual charge payable by sky to the FAI etc.

Sky are licensed to broadcast in the Republic of Ireland and hold the rights to live EPL games for Ireland (in line with their UK offerings)

[A face]

Sky are licensed to broadcast in the Republic of Ireland and hold the rights to live EPL games for Ireland (in line with their UK offerings)

So they can broadcast any LOI game they want?

[Mr A]

It was the mid 90's when Harps got floodlights via the Sky deal anyway. 1994 I think, possibly 1995.

[Dodge]

So they can broadcast any LOI game they want?

That's a bit of a leap but yea, why not?

[Louth4sam]

Dundalk had floodlights since the 60s so I'd guess the money was spent on sliver teapots and comfy chairs for the boardroom.

[atfconline]

We got £50,000 for our floodlights in '93.

I also found an article the order day where the FAI were threatening to block the airing of a Scottish Cup game, because it clashed with the Leinster Senior Cup final between ourselves and Saint Francis. This was in January 1992.