Serious lack of Irish players starting in the Premiership

[carloz]

Only really realised this on Saturday. Of the 16 Premiership teams that played on that day, there was only 3 Irish players who started for their clubs. They were Keane of Liverpool, Andrews of Blackburn and Delap of Stoke. John O'Shea, Glenn Whelan, and Caleb Folan were all quite late substitutes. Andy Reid, Kevin kilbane and Den kiely were all unused subs. Am i alone in being very very worried about the lack of Irish players now playing in the top flight.

[Colbert Report]

What an absolute garbage point to bring up. I'm watching Richard Dunne, Stephen Ireland, and Andy O'Brien play in a match live right now. They all started.

Given and Duff play tomorrow. Finnan plays in Spain and McGeady in Spain. Stephen Hunt and Kevin Doyle play in the Championship (for now). O'Shea came on as a sub for Manchester United yesterday. Glenn Whelan came on as a sub yesterday as well.

Given (tomorrow)
Finnan(Spain)-Dunne(started today)-O'Shea(sub yesterday)-Kilbane
McGeady(Scotland)-Whelan(sub)-Gibson/Carsley/Reid-Duff(plays tomorrow)
Keane(started)-Doyle(started and scored).

[paul_oshea]

ya robert but behind those 11 there are feck all playing in the premiership, why are you attacking his post? He has a very valid point.

[Colbert Report]

Back in the glory days of Charlton how many players did we have playing in the Premiership beyond our starting eleven?

[SkStu]

ya robert but behind those 11 there are feck all playing in the premiership, why are you attacking his post? He has a very valid point.


agree Paul. bizarre random over the top attack on a pretty valid point.

Original poster was talking about English premiership only yet Colbert Report uses players playing for teams in spain, scotland and championship to attack him?? Weird.

[SkStu]

Back in the glory days of Charlton how many players did we have playing in the Premiership beyond our starting eleven?


almost all our squad were First Division players, Charlton insisted that 2nd tier players would not start under him and most players did their upmost to ensure that they were playing to the highest level they could.

[Colbert Report]

Of our best eleven, only Given, Dunne, Duff, and Keane are regular starters in the Premiership.

Finnan, McGeady, Hunt, and Doyle all play regular football elsewhere.

I can see his point about Kilbane, Whelan, and Gibson not getting a regular start in the Premiership and certainly this is an area of concern. However, we already have the "central midfield crisis" thread on the go. No need for another thread to spout the kind of rubbish this guy is on about.

[Colbert Report]

almost all our squad were First Division players, Charlton insisted that 2nd tier players would not start under him and most players did their upmost to ensure that they were playing to the highest level they could.

How then did Alan Kelly get into the squad over Packie Bonner? He was nothing more than a reserve at Sheffield United if I remember correctly.

[carloz]

What an absolute garbage point to bring up. I'm watching Richard Dunne, Stephen Ireland, and Andy O'Brien play in a match live right now. They all started.

Given and Duff play tomorrow. Finnan plays in Spain and McGeady in Spain. Stephen Hunt and Kevin Doyle play in the Championship (for now). O'Shea came on as a sub for Manchester United yesterday. Glenn Whelan came on as a sub yesterday as well.

Given (tomorrow)
Finnan(Spain)-Dunne(started today)-O'Shea(sub yesterday)-Kilbane
McGeady(Scotland)-Whelan(sub)-Gibson/Carsley/Reid-Duff(plays tomorrow)
Keane(started)-Doyle(started and scored).
Relax a bit mate, i think it was a very fair point to bring up. If we have only 3 players starting from 16 Premiership teams, we should be worried. Andy O'Brien has retired and Stephen Ireland has made himself unavailable. Finnan has played half an hour's football in Spain. Why you bring up Hunt and Doyle i dont know, as my point concerns Premiership players. Plus id ask you to read my point fully before commenting. I clearly mentioned that Glenn Whelan came on

[SkStu]

a similar lack of cover at certain areas ensured that there were exceptions, such as Gerry Peyton backing up Bonner. Kelly was understudy to Bonner for 3 years. Bonner then retired and Kelly took over from him if i recall correctly.. Kelly only won about 40 caps whereas Bonner won 90ish.

[tricky_colour]

The Premier League is full of overseas players these days, they have been replaced by foreigners.

[fionnsci]

The Premier League is full of overseas players these days, they have been replaced by foreigners.

Exactly, it has even affected the amount of Englishmen starting, take Arsenal for example.

[irishultra]

they have been replaced by other foreigners.

[sligofan4ever]

Exactly, it has even affected the amount of Englishmen starting, take Arsenal for example.

Arsenal arent even an english team, there a french team, if you look at the nationality of there present and past players you'll know what I mean. Only Englishman in the squad right now is Theo Walcott I think.

[irishultra]

well there is no english nationality so you could say they have walcott, ramsey and wilshire.

[irishfan86]

Maybe soon to be joined by Almunia ;)

[Supreme feet]

almost all our squad were First Division players, Charlton insisted that 2nd tier players would not start under him and most players did their upmost to ensure that they were playing to the highest level they could.

From the squad that went to USA '94, Alan Kelly, McLoughlin, McAteer, David Kelly, Aldridge and McGoldrick were all playing in Division 1. Cascarino didn't even have a club, and was about to sign for Marseille, who were in Ligue 2 after the bribery scandal. Coyne was playing for Motherwell. Bonner was in and out of Celtic's team, Whelan was in Liverpool's reserves and about to sign for Southend. Kernaghan was on Man City's bench.

From the squad that qualified for 2002, many of our players had spent time in Division 1 during the campaign - notably Duff, Holland, Kinsella, McAteer, Alan Kelly, Connolly, Breen and Cunningham.

Football can change very quickly, and by next season - depending on how promotions, relegations and transfers go - the situation could have changed dramatically - especially if Reading go up, Garvan, McCann and O'Toole get transfers and O'Halloran, Treacy and Folan get established.

[Lionel Ritchie]

almost all our squad were First Division players, Charlton insisted that 2nd tier players would not start under him and most players did their upmost to ensure that they were playing to the highest level they could.

Jack Charlton took a squad to the world cup finals in 1994 who's only top flight striker was Tommy Coyne of Motherwell.

[richieos]

i think we should look at the positives of our players instead of the negatives.
players who scored at the weekend:

doyle - 2 goals
noel hunt - 1 goal
andrews - 1 goal
stephen elliott -1 goal
robbie keane - 1 assist
rory delap - 2 assists
david mcgoldrick (is he irish?) 1 goal

also paul mcshane started in the premiership too, although he really looked like a championship player.
sheridan started for celtic
garvan, mcann, o'toole all started for their clubs

[mark12345]

Carloz, you do make a very valid point. That Colbert bloke is off his rocker.

[SkStu]

Jack Charlton took a squad to the world cup finals in 1994 who's only top flight striker was Tommy Coyne of Motherwell.


Jack Charlton also brought us to 1988 and 1990 with a stronger squad of players. It was at this time that he was demanding top flight first team football from his squad.

By the time 94 came around we were on the wane. Football was changing and we suffered and continue to suffer from the problem that Carloz has highlighted.

[Dr. Ogba]

What an absolute garbage point to bring up. I'm watching Richard Dunne, Stephen Ireland, and Andy O'Brien play in a match live right now. They all started.

Given and Duff play tomorrow. Finnan plays in Spain and McGeady in Spain. Stephen Hunt and Kevin Doyle play in the Championship (for now). O'Shea came on as a sub for Manchester United yesterday. Glenn Whelan came on as a sub yesterday as well.

Given (tomorrow)
Finnan(Spain)-Dunne(started today)-O'Shea(sub yesterday)-Kilbane
McGeady(Scotland)-Whelan(sub)-Gibson/Carsley/Reid-Duff(plays tomorrow)
Keane(started)-Doyle(started and scored).

Had to laugh at this response from the man that thinks Dave Mooney should be called up based on his Champ Manager stats!

[Colbert Report]

Had to laugh at this response from the man that thinks Dave Mooney should be called up based on his Champ Manager stats!

It was FIFA.

[jmurphyc]

Had to laugh at this response from the man that thinks Dave Mooney should be called up based on his Champ Manager stats!

There's nothing funny about that. I hear Staunton found it useful. :p

[livehead1]

There's nothing funny about that. I hear Staunton found it useful. :p

For a country like Ireland its certainly useful. It has perhaps the largest database in the world of professional footballers and includes their second nationalities if they are aware of them. They have far superior research tools than the FAI. I see no problem with using it for this purpose, I doubt anyone would really look at the stats of individual players!

[brianw82]

Big Jack was on the Gerry Ryan show a week or two ago, and he said that on one particular Saturday there were only 37 English players starting. Not sure which Saturday it was, but assuming there were the usual 8 games, that's an average of between 4 and 5 Englishmen playing for each team.

If this is the case for the English, it will obviously have a knock-on effect on the Irish.

BTW, I'd recommend that everyone read chapter 3 of Jamie Carragher's book for some very valid points on the 'foreigner debate'.

[Boh_So_Good]

Only really realised this on Saturday. Of the 16 Premiership teams that played on that day, there was only 3 Irish players who started for their clubs.

And to think after all the decades of servile, mindless devotions the Oirish "we", "us" crowd poured upon their West Brition identity crisis of consumer choice you would think they would have more respect for the Irish footballer. Afterall aren't Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Hull etc all Irish teams!

[Dr. Ogba]

It was FIFA.

touché!

[Closed Account]

Okay can we all just accept the fact that our best players need to be playing at the highest level and everything, including Champions League results, points to the Premier League. We should be benefiting from our proximity.
If you want to argue about supporting Eircom League clubs, not supporting the British leagues etc, go to a different thread.
We are explicitly discussing the success of Irish players in the Premier League here as it directly affects our national teams ambitions as it does to a lot of other countries. Live with it.

So last weekend we had
Given(probably)
McShane-Dunne-A O'Brien-Delap
Ireland-Andrews-Duff(probably)
Keane
with
Stephen Reid and Liam Lawrence not considered.

Not bad in my eyes?
Scotland-1 starter(James Morrison)
Wales-7 starters(Myhill-Collins-Collison-Davies-Koumas-Bellamy-Evans)
N.Ireland-2 starters(Hughes-McCartney)

France only had 15 and 5 of those were at Arsenal

[Razors left peg]

Okay can we all just accept the fact that our best players need to be playing at the highest level and everything, including Champions League results, points to the Premier League. We should be benefiting from our proximity.
If you want to argue about supporting Eircom League clubs, not supporting the British leagues etc, go to a different thread.
We are explicitly discussing the success of Irish players in the Premier League here as it directly affects our national teams ambitions as it does to a lot of other countries. Live with it.

So last weekend we had
Given(probably)
McShane-Dunne-A O'Brien-Delap
Ireland-Andrews-Duff(probably)
Keane
with
Stephen Reid and Liam Lawrence not considered.

Not bad in my eyes?
Scotland-1 starter(James Morrison)
Wales-7 starters(Myhill-Collins-Collison-Davies-Koumas-Bellamy-Evans)
N.Ireland-2 starters(Hughes-McCartney)

France only had 15 and 5 of those were at Arsenal

Well the France stat doesnt count as they have players in other leagues too... not least their own!

[Closed Account]

Well the France stat doesnt count as they have players in other leagues too... not least their own!
What I meant was France have 15 starters out of 33 in the Premiership
Ireland have 9 out of 30

But statistics can be skewed anyway you want to interpret them.
Carry on....

[finnpark]

The Premier League is full of overseas players these days, they have been replaced by foreigners.

:rolleyes:

You do know that when Manchester and Tottenham etc put up the union jack each 2nd weekend its because they are British, not Irish?

Here is a link to show you that Ireland is a foreign country too if you are British:
http://www.studyabroad.com/content/menus/europe.gif

[Dr. Ogba]

ah the nit picking brigade out in full again....any possibility that he was referring to players overseas from England y'know given the fact that the Prem is in England and all....

Jeez some people have noting better to do....

[gustavo]

ah the nit picking brigade out in full again....any possibility that he was referring to players overseas from England y'know given the fact that the Prem is in England and all....

Jeez some people have noting better to do....
Ah just as well there isn't any seas between us and England then

[finnpark]

ah the nit picking brigade out in full again....any possibility that he was referring to players overseas from England y'know given the fact that the Prem is in England and all....

Jeez some people have noting better to do....

Emmm Ireland is not joined to England, to the UK maybe so Ireland is also overseas from England/Britain.

I think the influence of the British media here has got people's minds in a pickle. It can happen easily.

Its an unforgivable mistake really

[Dr. Ogba]

Emmm Ireland is not joined to England, to the UK maybe so Ireland is also overseas from England/Britain.

I think the influence of the British media here has got people's minds in a pickle. It can happen easily.

Its an unforgivable mistake really

wow. thanks. for. that.

jaysus do yez not get sick of regurgitating the same old argument over and over again especially to people on this board, most of whom support the Irish national team ahead of any prem team anyway....

[RiffRaff]

On a slightly more positive note, the performances of Hull, Stoke and WBA have proved that the gap between premiership and lower divisions is closing. We have plenty of players at championship level and if the likes of these teams can beat Arsenal, maybe we shouldnt be discounting the players we have at championship level.