The ones that got away

[bwagner]

Grant Mc Cann?

[Lionel Ritchie]

I wouldn't want a bigoted, woman beating, alcoholic, drug taking individual representing us at any sport.

The auld bigotry must run really deep with a man when one of the parents is RC.

For consistency' sake I hope you're not a fan of, say, The Who. Their drummer (and one of my heros as a youth incidently) Keith Moon was a drug taking, alcoholic, wife beater ...broke her nose on at least one occasion.

[livehead1]

The auld bigotry must run really deep with a man when one of the parents is RC.

For consistency' sake I hope you're not a fan of, say, The Who. Their drummer (and one of my heros as a youth incidently) Keith Moon was a drug taking, alcoholic, wife beater ...broke her nose on at least one occasion.

If you think they are qualities with which you would like our sports representative to contain then more power to you

[Lionel Ritchie]

If you think they are qualities with which you would like our sports representative to contain then more power to you

I absolutely do not. I acknowledge there's a role model issue that we want people to live up to. But it's a fact of life that they often don't. Probably more frequently than we get to hear about - and in that situation I think the best course is to separate art from artist and leave the rest of the persons transgressions to the relevant authorities.

[Paddy Garcia]

Apparently Kyle Naughton

[CraftyToePoke]

I believe Mark Noble, and Lee Boyer could have, also Jimmy Bullard.

David Dunn and Gareth Barry im less sure of, just their names really. but the first 3 do/did/would have quailfied for us.

[EalingGreen]

Grant Mc Cann?
This one? :confused:

http://www.irishfa.com/squad-profiles/2156/senior/grant-mccann-midfielder/

[EalingGreen]

The auld bigotry must run really deep with a man when one of the parents is RC.

God help him, but Gazza doesn't have the brains to be bigoted (if that's possible).

I assume Livehead was referring to Gazza's flute-playing in his first Old Firm game; apparently that stemmed from an Ally McCoist wind-up, where he told Gazza before the game that he should do, since the Rangers fans would appreciate it...;)

As for his being a "drug-taking, woman-beating alcoholic", I imagine the same standards could be applied e.g. to George Best, except that Gazza has never been imprisoned, nor did George have the excuse of mental illness.

And Gazza never willingly turned his back on the game, either, for that matter...

As a Spurs and NI fan, those two were both heroes of mine; at the same time, I don't approve of many of the things they did.

But I would never criticise them, on the basis that if I had their outrageous talent, plus all the money, birds and hangers-on etc that go with it, I can't guarantee I wouldn't have gone off the rails in similar fashion. Nor, I would suggest, can anyone else.

(Joey Barton, mind, now there's a different case...:mad:)

[Razors left peg]

God help him, but Gazza doesn't have the brains to be bigoted (if that's possible).

I assume Livehead was referring to Gazza's flute-playing in his first Old Firm game; apparently that stemmed from an Ally McCoist wind-up, where he told Gazza before the game that he should do, since the Rangers fans would appreciate it...;)

As for his being a "drug-taking, woman-beating alcoholic", I imagine the same standards could be applied e.g. to George Best, except that Gazza has never been imprisoned, nor did George have the excuse of mental illness.

And Gazza never willingly turned his back on the game, either, for that matter...

As a Spurs and NI fan, those two were both heroes of mine; at the same time, I don't approve of many of the things they did.

But I would never criticise them, on the basis that if I had their outrageous talent, plus all the money, birds and hangers-on etc that go with it, I can't guarantee I wouldn't have gone off the rails in similar fashion. Nor, I would suggest, can anyone else.

(Joey Barton, mind, now there's a different case...:mad:)

Maybe the first time he did it was ok to claim that he didnt understand but he did it again after that...

[livehead1]

I absolutely do not. I acknowledge there's a role model issue that we want people to live up to. But it's a fact of life that they often don't. Probably more frequently than we get to hear about - and in that situation I think the best course is to separate art from artist and leave the rest of the persons transgressions to the relevant authorities.

So in that case you would accept that it's got nothing to do with bigotry. We have been quite lucky supporting Ireland over the last number of years, in that our footballers don't tend to get themselves involved in too many scandals.

You say you would like to separate art from artist but that simply isn't possible. Say for example, Paul Gascoigne is playing for Ireland. He is time and time again being caught up in reprehensible acts, this invariably damages that image of the national side. Therefore, back to my original point; I don't wish to see people with the 'characteristics' of a Paul Gascoigne et al, representing my nation in any sport.

[EalingGreen]

You say you would like to separate art from artist but that simply isn't possible. Say for example, Paul Gascoigne is playing for Ireland. He is time and time again being caught up in reprehensible acts, this invariably damages that image of the national side. Therefore, back to my original point; I don't wish to see people with the 'characteristics' of a Paul Gascoigne et al, representing my nation in any sport.
So Paul McGrath succumbing to the same affliction as Gazza and Best, literally p1ssing his money down the drain whilst neglecting his kids, or abusing other players wives etc, means that you didn't want to see him in a green shirt, either?
Or Roy Keane, who has confessed amongst other things, to drinking to near unconsciousness when on ROI duty, who abused and intimidated referees, who deliberately went out to cripple opponents etc - are you saying you didn't want to see him represent your nation, either?
Oh I forgot, both of those failed to do so themselves, from time to time...:rolleyes:

[Oink]

A few other recent US internationals were eligible e.g. Michael Parkhurst(father from Galway), Greg Berhalter(mother also from Galway)

Jaysus cant believe we missed out on those two, is either of them a wide reciever or offensive halfback?

[third policeman]

God help him, but Gazza doesn't have the brains to be bigoted (if that's possible).
..:mad:)


And niether, I assume has "Sir David" Healy, standadrd bearer and icon of the NI international team and occasional flute player.

[EalingGreen]

And niether, I assume has "Sir David" Healy, standadrd bearer and icon of the NI international team and occasional flute player.
Oh ffs! Healy knew exactly what he was doing. In reply to some banter from Celtic fans as he warmed up on the touchline - "Where were you on the Twelfth?" - he mimed that he was playing his Flute.
He smiled, the Celtic fans nearby smiled, the great majority of the fans at what was a pre-season friendly at Craven Cottage didn't even see what happened. After the game, Healy was quite happy to sign autographs and pose for photos with fans, both home and away.
Then some photographer published a photo of Healy, and the "Legion of Perpetually Offended MOPES" - 99% of whom weren't even at the game -swung into action...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/john-laverty/john-laverty-sectarianism-has-no-sense-of-humour-david-13918054.html
Of course, the fact that he apologised fulsomely and sincerely at the thought he might have offended someone gets overlooked completely by the Legion, but there you go; as Laverty correctly points out, it is the bigots who lack a sense of humour...


P.S. Would that be the same Healy the Bigot who, during a brief trip home to NI, took the trouble to travel down to Dublin to graciously receive the All-Ireland Texaco Football Award for 2006? Or the one who e.g. does charity work involving all sides of the community? Or the one who has never been heard to utter a controversial word about religion or politics in his life?

[sadloserkid]

Jaysus cant believe we missed out on those two, is either of them a wide reciever or offensive halfback?

Wide receivers? Offensive halfbacks? Do you know anything about football? :rolleyes:

[Oink]

Wide receivers? Offensive halfbacks? Do you know anything about football? :rolleyes:

Sure I do, whomevers roster accumulates the most score kicks wins?

[third policeman]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/john-laverty/john-laverty-sectarianism-has-no-sense-of-humour-david-13918054.html
P.S. Would that be the same Healy the Bigot who, during a brief trip home to NI, took the trouble to travel down to Dublin to graciously receive the All-Ireland Texaco Football Award for 2006? Or the one who e.g. does charity work involving all sides of the community? Or the one who has never been heard to utter a controversial word about religion or politics in his life?


No it would be the idiotically niaive David Healey whose moment of, what might well have been lighted-hearted and well-intentioned, madness, has given him a cult hero status with loonie loyalists and tarnished a personal reputation based on his outstanding footballing achievements and charitable activities. Honestly EG you would earn more respect on this site if you did not feel obliged to offer the most tortuous Jesuitical justifications for every single critical observation about the behaivour / antics of NI fans, players or the IFA. Healy was a dick in the same way that Arthur Boruc was a dick for making the sign of the cross to Rangers fans! Niether of them are bigots, but they should both have known better.

[EalingGreen]

No it would be the idiotically niaive David Healey whose moment of, what might well have been lighted-hearted and well-intentioned, madness, has given him a cult hero status with loonie loyalists and tarnished a personal reputation based on his outstanding footballing achievements and charitable activities. Honestly EG you would earn more respect on this site if you did not feel obliged to offer the most tortuous Jesuitical justifications for every single critical observation about the behaivour / antics of NI fans, players or the IFA. Healy was a dick in the same way that Arthur Boruc was a dick for making the sign of the cross to Rangers fans! Niether of them are bigots, but they should both have known better.
Of course Healy should have known better. But it was an entirely innocent gesture for which he has apologised. Which considering it was entirely out of character, should be the end of it.

As for Boruc, other than believing that those Rangers fans are prize hypocrites when they abuse the guy, then complain when he responds in kind, I have little interest in, or knowledge of, the workings of either Old Firm club.

But if pushed to make a comparison between Boruc and Healy, I would suggest that one indiscretion on the part of Healy, in a sparsely attended pre-season friendly at Fulham, hardly counts as against 3?4?5? incidents involving Boruc, conducted in the glare of an Old Firm Derby, which not only attracted the attention of the SFA, but also the local Constabulary.

And I might also consider that Healy's ability to p1ss off an all-too easily offended minority of the fans of another team hardly compares with Boruc's ability to p1ss off his own team, whether it be club or country:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/2008/08/23/exclusive-artur-boruc-fined-50-000-by-celtic-over-drinking-antics-86908-20708067/

P.S. I don't know whether you are a Celtic fan or not, but if you are, I'd appreciate it if you picked a rather more appropriate example from amongst the Parkhead squad, against whom to compare and contrast David Healy.

[third policeman]

Of course Healy should have known better. But it was an entirely innocent gesture for which he has apologised. Which considering it was entirely out of character, should be the end of it.


Agreed. But in the febrile atmosphere of NI things are not that simple. Clearly the banner wavers in Slovenia ("Our culture is not a crime") didn't think we'd reached the end of it, and probably never will. Totally agree about the senselss and disgraceful booing of Rangers players by ROI fans. Especially idiotic and insulting during the Kerr era given his background. I'm still up for going to Windsor in the new year if I can get the tickets, and if I am wrong I wont be afraid to admit it.

[hunt4the]

Getting back to the ones that got away!!

Mannion the red haired half balding full back for the Swiss

[third policeman]

I am sure I heard / read that Michael Carrick could have played for us, but still haven't thought of a goalkeeper.

[seanfhear]

Was there a goalkeeper at blackburn of Australian extraction that had been suggested as a possibility for Ireland a few years ago.

[irishultra]

john filan ye?

btw is this actually people who could have played for us or can it just be people with irish heritage?

fabian o 'neill anyway.

[SkStu]

Was there a goalkeeper at blackburn of Australian extraction that had been suggested as a possibility for Ireland a few years ago.

dont forget Mark Beeney! ex leeds gk...

[greendeiseboy]

maybe i might be wrong here - it's late and i'm a liitle worse for wear - but there's an up and coming player for the greatest team the world has ever seen (leeds) who as yet has not got away - Aiden White - a look into his background will show what i mean i.e. school etc and before you all come down on me - if you look at the thread i started on JJ O't you'll see that sometimes these threads do unearth something - btw he is rumoured to be in line for an England underage cap cap - should we be looking here

[third policeman]

Was there a goalkeeper at blackburn of Australian extraction that had been suggested as a possibility for Ireland a few years ago.


Youre right. Filan

[ramondo]

both parents and he didnt join Ireland, its always the country parents kids that seem to join. more proud of their heritage and upbringing i spose.

It seemed to me when living in London in the late eighties that some of the Cockney-sounding kids of country Irish parents seemed more traditional and "old country" than the droves of Irish that were there at the time. Probably comes from the parents wanting the kids to have Irish identity, but not realising that the country they remembered didn't really exist anymore.

(BTW - I also didn't know Wicklow was classed as Metropolitan these days.)

[theworm2345]

Jaysus cant believe we missed out on those two, is either of them a wide reciever or offensive halfback?
Offensive halfback? They're just called halfback here...see Matt Forte

[irish scout]

hey new 2 this site...just became aware of a few players possibly eligible for ireland, keeper called liam o brien just signed 4 portsmouth from qpr, on trial at arsenal 4 a while, good prospect and also keeper currently at arsenal think called jack shea , young kid, not 2 sure about his ability but heard he s eligible, also we arsenal just signed a norwegian born keeper called mcdermott, already plays for ireland underage teams tho...just wondering if the fai are aware of these players???

[eirebhoy]

Welcome to the site but from now no no text speech! :)

http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=440516&postcount=13

[Deckydee]

His father got away....http://pogmogoal.com/the-blog-reel/in-the-game-of-the-father/17861/

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Niall told me he isn't eligible for Ireland.

[tetsujin1979]

Niall told me he isn't eligible for Ireland.
interesting. on what grounds is he ineligible?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I don't remember. I private messaged him on Twitter about it; this would have been a good while ago.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Wait a minute. He might be eligible. I think it was Julian Kelly or Liam Irwin who I was talking to.

[tetsujin1979]

Wait a minute. He might be eligible. I think it was Julian Kelly or Liam Irwin who I was talking to.
Kelly isn't eligible for us alright, Irwin played competitively with us until U19 level (see http://www.fai.ie/ireland/match/24/2011/2001643 and http://www.fai.ie/ireland/match/24/2011/2001695 ) - so he's definitely eligible

[Wangball]

How could Liam Irwin, the son of Denis Irwin, ever not be eligible for us????

Julian Kelly was called up for friendlies but then I think it transpired that his ancestral link was a generation too late.

Niall Keown is surely eligible by virtue of his Irish grandparents yeah??

[Olé Olé]

Yeah, Martin's parents were both Irish. It's interesting that Niall Keown is claiming for Ireland. Is it that he isn't getting the England caps so he's claiming for Ireland? Or does he feel inherently Irish like his dad does? Bearing in mind that his father played for England on the basis that his father wanted him to give something back to the country, or something along those lines.

[DannyInvincible]

How could Liam Irwin, the son of Denis Irwin, ever not be eligible for us????

Julian Kelly was called up for friendlies but then I think it transpired that his ancestral link was a generation too late.

Niall Keown is surely eligible by virtue of his Irish grandparents yeah??

Liam Irwin, irrespective of where he was born, would be an Irish national from birth by virtue of having been born to Denis, an Irish national who was born in Ireland.

Niall Keown would have had to have his birth registered on the Foreign Births Register before acquiring Irish citizenship, because Martin - even though an automatic Irish citizen from birth - was born outside of Ireland, but Niall would, of course, be eligible to play for us on account of his Ireland-born grandparents. His citizenship would be effective from the date of registration.

More info here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

[Stuttgart88]

...and a painstaking process it is too I can tell you. I finally got around to FBR for my kids earlier this year.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The Irish community in English football is something Jacko is very much part of: he lists off the Irish players at the Hawthorns: James McClean and Marc Wilson, along with Northern Ireland internationals Gareth McCauley, Jonny Evans and Chris Brunt here, along with Darren Fletcher, who Jacko says is half Irish:


He was over at the All-Ireland last year with his dad Robert, but he missed the replay. He's a big Mayo fan, his mother is from Achill. He does absolutely [share the despair of Mayo fans over here]. Even James McClean, we'd have a laugh. I played with Finn Harps in the 90s, and obviously James is a big Derry City fan.



https://www.balls.ie/football/west-brom-kit-manager-360776

[Charlie Darwin]

https://www.balls.ie/football/west-brom-kit-manager-360776



Keane tried to convince Fletcher to declare for Ireland at underage level at United but he rightly had his heart set on Scotland. I'll have a root and see if I can find the articles that reference it. Brady wanted him at Arsenal too and has spoken about it too, if I recall.

[DannyInvincible]

Keane tried to convince Fletcher to declare for Ireland at underage level at United but he rightly had his heart set on Scotland. I'll have a root and see if I can find the articles that reference it. Brady wanted him at Arsenal too and has spoken about it too, if I recall.

Why "rightly", in your opinion? I think he could have done a good job for us had he decided to play for the land of his mother. He's a good, solid, functional player.

[DannyInvincible]

Just mentioning Chris Coleman in this thread as he said he once turned down a call to play for Ireland in spite of his father being a Dublin man: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861567-emotional-return-to-dublin-for-wales-boss-coleman/

[Wangball]

Was Coleman ever good enough to play for us? His peers were Kenny Cunningham, Steve Staunton, Gary Breen, Andy O'Brien etc....was he any better than any of them??

[DeLorean]

I would have thought he wasn't far off Cunningham's level and better than Breen & O'Brien. A solid Premier League regular - that's my memory anyway but obviously I wasn't too concerned about how good or bad he was. We should beware of those green tinted glasses!

[SkStu]

with respect to the likes of Coleman and Keown, who had immediate strong links to Ireland, would it be fair to say that a fair few of the Irish folks who left for England in those decades (I am assuming the 50's and 60's) would have harboured some ill-will towards the country of their birth and thus severed ties with Ireland from an emotional standpoint? I recall a lot of bitterness amongst emigrants in the 80's when we lost a lot of people due to the absolute lack of opportunity across multiple industries/sectors but I do not know what the climate and feelings would have been like a generation earlier. In Coleman's case, his dad seemed proud to be Irish but always pushed Coleman to represent Wales - interesting dichotomy at play there.

That said, I agree with the comment on another thread that being brought up in a city like Swansea would not have helped expose Coleman to his Irish roots, unless it was done intentionally by the parents.

[Charlie Darwin]

Why "rightly", in your opinion? I think he could have done a good job for us had he decided to play for the land of his mother. He's a good, solid, functional player.
Well assuming he identifies as Scottish I mean, it's right he chose them.

[Charlie Darwin]

with respect to the likes of Coleman and Keown, who had immediate strong links to Ireland, would it be fair to say that a fair few of the Irish folks who left for England in those decades (I am assuming the 50's and 60's) would have harboured some ill-will towards the country of their birth and thus severed ties with Ireland from an emotional standpoint? I recall a lot of bitterness amongst emigrants in the 80's when we lost a lot of people due to the absolute lack of opportunity across multiple industries/sectors but I do not know what the climate and feelings would have been like a generation earlier. In Coleman's case, his dad seemed proud to be Irish but always pushed Coleman to represent Wales - interesting dichotomy at play there.

That said, I agree with the comment on another thread that being brought up in a city like Swansea would not have helped expose Coleman to his Irish roots, unless it was done intentionally by the parents.
Still plenty of bitter emigrants nowadays.

[DannyInvincible]

with respect to the likes of Coleman and Keown, who had immediate strong links to Ireland, would it be fair to say that a fair few of the Irish folks who left for England in those decades (I am assuming the 50's and 60's) would have harboured some ill-will towards the country of their birth and thus severed ties with Ireland from an emotional standpoint? I recall a lot of bitterness amongst emigrants in the 80's when we lost a lot of people due to the absolute lack of opportunity across multiple industries/sectors but I do not know what the climate and feelings would have been like a generation earlier. In Coleman's case, his dad seemed proud to be Irish but always pushed Coleman to represent Wales - interesting dichotomy at play there.

That said, I agree with the comment on another thread that being brought up in a city like Swansea would not have helped expose Coleman to his Irish roots, unless it was done intentionally by the parents.

For many who left Ireland during those days, I'm sure there would have been a desire to be assimilated into their host society as quickly as possible. Thus, I'm sure many suppressed the characteristics they felt "exposed" them as being "definitively Irish" (by anglicising names or dropping the "Ó"/"Mac/Mc", for example) rather than emphasising their differences, especially if prejudice or discrimination might have been experienced as a result.