ireland are s***e [Archive]

colster

11/10/2003, 7:51 PM

It's bad enough we lost but going down without a fight or a performance is what really ****es me off.
Thats a few games now that the Irish team have failed to even deliver a performance.
Whats going on?
Where's the passion that was there against Holland.
You know I always took it for granted that however ireland played they would always give it a lash.
They didn't do it today or against Russia.

Another thing why on earth did Kerr throw on Morrisson when it was obvious that he wouldn't do anything and that we needed some height in the area. Even if Doherty wasn't fit why didn't he try Reid or one of the Centre Halfs.

Anyway thats my rant over. It's clear that this team needs re-building. That means we have to look at the likes of Miller, Delap, A.Reid and Thornton.

carnstein

11/10/2003, 8:30 PM

Originally posted by colster
Where's the passion that was there against Holland.

It was sitting in Manchester watching the game on TV.

On a side not, Ireland are not ****. Brian Kerr is ****. We just accept defeat, claiming we are not good enough and never once question the managers team selection and tactics. This is because of the defeatist attitude which has held us back for years.

Duff should not have been played on the right, that was a joke.

Kilbane, Breen and Holland should never be picked in an Ireland squad again.

Morrison should have started ahead of that waste of space Connaly, 1st team football or not.

It was a complete and utter disgrace that Steve Finnan, the best right back in the priemiership was not accomidated in the team.

We SHOULD be beating teams like the Swiss, it is a disgrace that we put up with the kind of crap that we had to watch today and justiy it by saying, "Well, we are only Irish, what more do we expect".

Lionel Hutz

11/10/2003, 9:22 PM

Originally posted by colster
It's bad enough we lost but going down without a fight or a performance is what really ****es me off.
Thats a few games now that the Irish team have failed to even deliver a performance.
Whats going on?
Where's the passion that was there against Holland.
You know I always took it for granted that however ireland played they would always give it a lash.
They didn't do it today or against Russia.

Agreed!
Ireland lacked "fight" today and thats down to managment!

As Iv laready stated on another web site the comment in the studio after the match was that Ireland have continuesly punched above their weight and this was a reality check!

BUT If Ireland have been able to get results in the past through fight and determination then why should we suddenly accept less now?
:confused:

petef

12/10/2003, 8:29 AM

Very disappointing, the pub was full of irish expecting something special and all we got was a performance bereft of any game plan. Were better than this, I can only say the tournament next summer will be the poorer without us. Have to say credit to the Swiss, they eliminated any threat we had and made us look very ordinary. All we got to look forward next summer now is a tour of the US or something to that effect. Dismal I know.

thecorner

12/10/2003, 9:28 AM

not one bit proud to say im irish this morning

kerr hasnt got a clue

those substitutes..........what a joke

would he ever f*ck off back to amatuer football where he belongs

NigeSausagepump

12/10/2003, 9:35 AM

Really disappointing display. No fight, no will to win, no closing down of the Swiss on the ball, strewn with individual errors and tactical mistakes.

The centre of defence was the most obvious area of weakness, but for me it was once again the centre of midfield where the damage was caused. I had great hopes for Healy after some of his early performances, he just seems to have gone backwards (yes I know he tried his heart out etc etc), and Holland is and always will be a dependable water-carrier, but nothing else. I just hope we're not putting too much of our future hopes on Liam Millers shoulders.

And it was disappointing to hear Kerr saying that it was the first two games that caused all the damage. If we had shown an ounce of fight and passion in the last two games, we'd have won the group irrespective of the way we started. And for that, I think the finger must be pointed at the current manager.

thecorner

12/10/2003, 11:10 AM

everybody is on about kerr being the right man and his record since he joined

good record but look at it properly

the 2 most important games and he f*cked up

will the f.a.i. ever get something right

Enda M

12/10/2003, 11:21 AM

kerr out,kerr out,kerr out,kerr out-i think ive made my feelings perfectly clear there.

he doesnt have a bulls notion.why on earth did himsef and mcarthy persist on playing that absolute waste of space breen at centre half ill never know.i mean the fool couldnt even get on the west ham resserve team sure clive delaney was picked before him.hes so crap that i think the best central defs in our league would be better than him(ferguson,doherty,hawkins,maguire,foley) any1 but thAT ****head.richard dunne and andy o brien playing in premiership with newcastle are much better options for us.
another obvious mistak made tactically was duffer on the right.hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not one attack (ok maybe 1 attack) came from him on the right all night.
the tactics were all wrong!!!!!!! kerr is not able for this type of management. everyone thought he wud be a gtreat manager cos he brought the underage teams so far.its asy to moytivate youngsters who want to learn but senior players who are more interested in how much money they get each week is a different kettle of fish altogether.

my team would have been

given

carr o brien dunne o shea

finnan reid healy(**** but no better option) duff

keane morrison

pineapple stu

12/10/2003, 11:34 AM

Match ratings (might get some of the frustration of out me!)

Given - 5 At fault for the second goal: should have held it or pushed it away to safety.
Carr - 4 Muck. No decent crosses. At fault for the second goal for allowing the Swiss lad acres of space to get his cross in.
Harte - 4 Rubbish. At fault for both goals as he stood still and watched his man poke home from a couple of yards.
Breen - 5 Terrible. At fault for the second goal for allowing the Swiss lad a free header from 10 yards. Missed two easy enough headers by miles - didn't even get them anywhere near the goal.
O'Shea - 5 Didn't see him at all.
Holland - 5 At fault for the first goal after that woeful attempt at an interception.
Duff - 7 Best Irish player on the night by far. Unlike Robbie Keane, should maybe reailse when he can go further with his runs. Petered out towards the end, when defeat was inevitable.
Kilbane - 6 Few good runs in the first half, although not matched by any decent deliveries.
Keane - 5 Who???
Connolly - 6 Completely outshone Keane when he was on, and was one of the few willing to run at the Swiss defence, which would have caused more problems if he could cross the ball. Wrong man for the job though.
Healy - 6 Actually saw him win a tackle or two!
SUBS - Morrison 5 Won some headers when he came on; should have started though against a team with an obvious dislike of the high ball.
Finnan - I hope for his sake that it wasn't Finnan who missed that easy header with ten minutes to go!!:eek:
Kinsella - Didn't do anything; not surprising with only ten minutes to play.

Kerr - 4 Russia scored there headers against Switzerland, and we play two small forwards. Morrison or Doherty had to start. Was sitting down looking glum when Ireland were 1-0 down instead of encouraging them. Why the hell weren't we closing people down??? Say what you like about Charlton's hoof-ball, but we wouldn't have conceded either goal if we'd been pressing people like we used to.

Overall though, we haven't played a good game since the World Cup and last night was the worst we've played in years. Really depressing, especially ahead of the World Cup.

That's enough for now though - these Swiss keyboards are impossible to type on - all the punctuation keys (as well as z and y) are in completely different positions!!)

pineapple stu

12/10/2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Enda M
why on earth did himsef and mcarthy persist on playing that absolute waste of space breen at centre half ill never know.i mean the fool couldnt even get on the west ham resserve team sure clive delaney was picked before him.hes so crap that i think the best central defs in our league would be better than him(ferguson,doherty,hawkins,maguire,foley) any1 but thAT ****head.

Eh, if you're going to whinge, at least make your points sensible. Breen was on every reserve team alongside Delaney - he certainly wasn't behind him in the pecking order. Breen has always played better for Ireland than at club level. O'Brien in contrast has rarely impressed for Ireland. Dunne was injured so couldn't play. Duff on the right and Kilbane on the left was the way to go as their full-backs were rubbish, and in the first half this was evident as both beat them regularly. They then didnät get any decent crosses in, or when they did, the forwards were too small.

Enda M

12/10/2003, 12:11 PM

ok maybe i exagerrated but not about kerrs management.1a o-o draw v albania and a last minute og and last min stuff in tblisi

Slash/ED

12/10/2003, 1:37 PM

Moving Duff out of position to accomadate that plank Kilbane is absolute woeful management I don't care if were playing Maldini or Terry Phelan. In his first two touches on the left Duff did more then either he on the right or Kilbane did the entire match and created too good chances. Why did Harte try and lump the ball forward to our barley 5 foot forwards? Why didn't Finnan start? Why couldn't Kerr made the obvious changes at half time or before?

We didn't preform on the night but some of the over action is daft. The whole we've been punching above our weight thing is absolute b*ll*cks for a start. Everyone can see we have the players we just need to get them to preform on the field. Some people seem to be claiming also that this is the worst Irish group of players in years yet for the life of me when I compare this side to the world cup one the only difference I see is half of those players have moved up a level and Carr, O'Shea, Healy and Cunningham are back playing for us when Staunton, Quinn, Alan Kelly, Dean Kiely, Gery Kelly have retired, would also of those five be in our side now? I doubt it, would Carr, O'shea, Healy, if he had the experience, or Cunningham, if he was fully fit at the time, make our world cup side? I think so.

As a side, our group of individual players have, imo, gone forwards not backwards, so I can't see where these comments about how poor our selection of players is all of a sudden. We just need to pick the right ones and get it right on the pitch, if Kerrs the right man that will happen with time, if he's not he'll be found out and replaced anyway.

Yes, we've preformed poorly, but we've not turned crap over night and people need to calm down a wee bit and stop over reacting. With the youngsters emerging we should be able to qualify, draw permitting, to 2006 without too much trouble and, draw permitting, do more there then we did last time around.

colster

12/10/2003, 2:24 PM

Originally posted by carnstein
It was sitting in Manchester watching the game on TV.

Very Very true.

Kerr made a few mistakes last night but I'm going to reserve judgement on him until after the WC qualifiers.
Essentially the squad and team he used last night were McCarthy's side but he still made some mistakes.
The biggest was not bringing Doherty or a tall front man on.
I just wonder what would have happened had he brought him on.
I think we would have got a couple of goals.

In my opinion he had to play O'Shea in the centre. Harte wasn't too bad on the left. The right side was our weakness and Kerr plugged that gap too late.

Anyway the whole performnce stemmed from a lack of leadership.
The WC papered over the loss of Keane but we have found since the loss of Staunton that we have only Cunningham.
Holland was disgraceful last night. He never took responsibility.
It's about time that he was dropped and I think Kerr has copped this. He subbed him with Kinsella.

niamh

12/10/2003, 2:59 PM

Holland is alright if he was alongside someone to lead the way. He ain't a leader or a captain IMO, and that's not disrespecting the man.
I thought Harte did alright. I think O'Shea was played out of place. Thought Breen and himself just didn't click but once they settled they did alright.
Switzerland didn't have that many chances, but they did the damage. Carr and Finnan is a tough choice but for me they both play - Finnan on right midfield. Playing Duff out of position to accomodate Kilbane when there were other options was a huge mistake. But Kilbane did have one of his best Irish games against Russia if you remember.

Healy and Holland - little other choice. But Graham Kavanagh is playing out of his skin and scoring goals at the minute. Would have put him on instead of Kinsella.

Connolly went to midfield and found the ball unlike Keane. He might not have done much but he did look alive on the ball. Keane was too quiet but got no service or help.

That was a oor performace by Ireland. No fight, no spirit, no World Cup determination which I think you'll all agree was the reason we got anywhere last summer.

It was an embarrassment to watch the team surrounded by Welsh who were delighted with their team's performance if not the result.

ger121

12/10/2003, 4:37 PM

Matches are won and lost in Midfield. Ours didn't perform last night, therefore it put additonal pressure on the defence and starved the fowards of any supply.
I have posted on another thread that Ireland have over achieved in recent years and I still think this is the case. We have a good team spirit, some good players and generally play to our strengthes.This has served us well in the past but football is ever changing and we will need to adapt again.
Kerr is definately a better manager than McCarthy and changing the manager again is not the solution, as we will still be left with the same group of players. The next year is the time to blood some new players and experiment a bit.
The time for accessment will be after the world cup qualifiers, ony then will we be able to tell whether we have gone forward or backwards under Kerr.

Peat Burns

12/10/2003, 6:01 PM

can we trust kerr with the wc qualifiers???

thecorner

12/10/2003, 7:34 PM

Originally posted by Peat Burns
can we trust kerr with the wc qualifiers???

answer= NO

Lionel Hutz

13/10/2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Peat Burns
can we trust kerr with the wc qualifiers???

Personally Id leave him in charge for the next few friendlies to see if he can get things right, think he deserves that!

BUT if theres not major improvement then punt him before the world cup qualifiers!

As Iv said earlier, for me Ireland had no fight last night and didnt pressure the opposition when they had the ball allowing them time and space to play through us, that is down to tactics and motivation, both of which are the responsibility of managment......

tricky_colour

13/10/2003, 12:53 AM

Ireland coped in the World Cup Finals without Roy Keane
but losing Staunton and Quinn, particularly Quinn left the
team seriously weakend, its hard to lose a class player from
defence, midfield and attack and still get results.
As for Kerr, playing two out and out wingers with two
small guys up front seems a little pointless. It makes playing
Harte a little pointless too.
When Morrison was brought on Duff was given a free role
apparently, so now you have a big man to put crosses into
you have one less winger (the best crosser of the ball) to do
the crossing.
Without a big man up front to target, you allow the opposition defense to push forward, putting pressure on your goal.
I also think we tend to over rely on Duff to find a opening, who of course will be heavily marked, we need to find a way to utilise Duff to create space for other to exploit.
Anyway hindsight is a wonderful thing. But we have a long way to
go if we expect to qualify for the next World Cup. Remember this
is a group we were seeded in and expected top.
It will be interesting to see how Russia and the Swiss perform
in Euro 2004. If they don't get past the group stages we looked
doomed.

pete

13/10/2003, 12:31 PM

I hope some of the comments above were in the heat of the moment.

Can't believe people want to dump half the squad (replaced with who???) & replace the manager again.

:rolleyes:

btw qaulification was lost in them last 10mins of Ireland v Switzerland.

Pogsly

13/10/2003, 1:46 PM

Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Personally Id leave him in charge for the next few friendlies to see if he can get things right, think he deserves that!

BUT if theres not major improvement then punt him before the world cup qualifiers!......

I can understand a lot people being angry after the performance on Sat but there has been some unbelievable sh*te posted on this forum by ppl who I considered to be fairly broad minded. Brian Kerr is the man for the job for this reason as much as any other: He is the ONLY man for the job . There have been some posts stating that Ireland didn't possess enough vision and are too content on having the craic etc. THIS IS THE IMAGE PORTRAYED BY MANAGERS WHO ARE NOT IN TOUCH WITH THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE IRISH PUBLIC AS THE LAST TWO "GREAT" MANAGERS WE HAD WERE BASED IN BLOODY ENGERLAND .
The comments Mr Kerr made after the match were very appropriate as he called it as it was. The team did not perform, and yes there was no heart in the performance . However to critcise the team he picked is downright disgraceful . With the excepion of Steve Finnan replacing Harte there is not one logical change that could be made. If Duff was plyed on the left the large gaps that appeared on Steve Carr's flank would have appeared on Harte's side too . Everyone is entitled to their opinion but personally I would prefer Brian Kerr as manager than Peter"I'm a Scouse *******"Reid or Phillipe Troussier . People can take their heads out of their ar*es and get a dose of reality . Brian Kerr has said he will make changes to the squad . The old reliables (Yeah right) like Holland and Kinsella should be discarded .Hiw can Matt Holland know what it means to wear the Green of Ireland when he can stand in Wembley belting out God save the Queen at the Play-offs. He's about as Irish as Feng-Shui:mad:

patsh

13/10/2003, 2:01 PM

Originally posted by Pogsly
The old reliables (Yeah right) like Holland and Kinsella should be discarded .Hiw can Matt Holland know what it means to wear the Green of Ireland when he can stand in Wembley belting out God save the Queen at the Play-offs. He's about as Irish as Feng-Shui:mad:
Well surely it doesn't matter what anthem Holland can sing, but it is time he went. He seems to be pining for "Row Z" and his heart isn't in it since the pr*ck got the boot after game 2.
Kinsella, Carsley, Holland and Connolly should all be retired if they don't want to go themselves, given a big thank you for all they have done*, but it's time to move on from them now.

(*except for Carsley, who never did anything except show up, give away the odd penalty and get the money)

Beavis

13/10/2003, 5:43 PM

I'd agree with Pete and Pogsly.Things didn't work out as we'd have hoped but now everyone is on abusing players who have given irish football great moments in the last decade or so.We need Kerr.He's an irish man bred in our league and understands Ireland more than his recent predeccesors.One loss in six is not a bad record.Give him the world cup and I have no doubt he'll prove his worth.Saturday was frustrating,they gave us little to cheer about but maybe those of you lucky enough to pick up handy face value tickets could have done more for the team?We sang the whole way from Paddy Reilly's,the tram and into the ground but then when the game was on,the fans behind the goal were a bit quiet for my liking.Waiting for the team to do something for them instead of trying to rally them.:confused:

Condex

14/10/2003, 8:23 PM

After the game in Basel on Saturday had a few days in Freisburg, Germany and the Black Forest had time to relect on the shambles which was match

I never watched such a pile of cr*p in my life and went to my first
Ireland game in 1980. No leadership, no passion,no effort the ball
was a hot potato sometimes in the second half it was a joke to watch as the ball was passed over and back and then back to the keeper to hoof up field.

I was crammed in with the Swiss and had to stay put throughout the celebrations after the game. Fancy some of our supporters singing 'You'll never walk alone' after a performance like that, they should be walking the plank.

Holland as usual did nothing, great honour for him to be captain for the day when taken off he just tossed the armband on the ground it took a Swiss player to hand it to an Irish player.

O'Shea is a central defender who can't head a ball, his timing is attrocious. Robbie Keane was rubbish, his problem is that he thinks he's a good player it should been him that was taken off rather than Connolly who at least tried.
Harte was his usual self.
Carr not great but tried.
Kilbane a one trick workhorse who's not up to it.
Given two games two mistakes.

And who ever penned the ditty 'We all dream of a team of Gary Breen's (tune of Yellow Submarine) should get himself seen to, I think one does enough damage.

Duff tried his heart out, sometimes tried to take on too many men.
Healey tried in the second half but the jury is still out on him.

Watched on Eurosport highlights and saw how the Georgians tore
into the Russians from the off, even limited players like we have
should be able to do that. Brian Kerr must take responsibility
for motivating the players,what has he been doing in the last week.

We need a clearout of the dead-wood keep Kenny Cunningham on to bring through the youngsters.

dereek

14/10/2003, 8:38 PM

and we know were s**t

NigeSausagepump

15/10/2003, 7:57 AM

Originally posted by Condex
Brian Kerr must take responsibility
for motivating the players,what has he been doing in the last week.

.

Dead right.

I'm tired of the same line being trotted out "we only missed out because of the first two results". Yes they had an impact, but Kerr and all his sympathisers have to put their hands up and say he did not have the team motivated enough for the last two games. There was no passion or fight and for me that's the manager's fault. He'll go up significantly in my estimation if he admits that he had a part to play in our failure to qualify.

I do think he's the man for the job, but he needs to figure out quickly how to recapture the fire we are so used to seeing in Irish teams.