View Full Version : The Budget Thread
Lionel Ritchie
15/10/2008, 9:32 AM
The bottomless pits that are health and education - and before anybody responds - let's get one thing out of the way - there is mopre than enough money in health and education - the problem is waste, mismanagement, insufficient supervision and oversight by politicaians, and a desire to outsource responsibility.
...can I respond now? Consistently successful countries spend a bit more than twice per head what we allocate to education.
As for Health ...well I'm just guessing you don't have much call to visit hospitals. I'd suggest checking it's still there before you next venture to one though. ..and what's "Insufficient supervision?" ...sounds like you're calling for another one of these so-called "layers of beauracracy" there.
The tax on air travel only applies to "longer" flights. up to 300km is 2 euro tax over 300 is 10euro so that means if you are flying to the UK from Dublin its 2 euro any other airport gets hit with the 10 euro charge. which i think is very unfair
not strickly true. Only some British airports
http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html
From Dublin to;
Blackpool; Cardiff; Glasgow; Glasgow (Prestwick); Isle of Man; Liverpool; Manchester;
From Cork to;
Newquay
From Donegal to;
Glasgow
Everything else is over 300kms. The only reason it was 300km was to make sure that flights to airports in NI were included as "short journeys" as they couldn't call them "irish airports"
A reduced rate of excise duty, at 50% of the full appropriate excise duty rate for beer and cider, will be introduced for low alcohol beer and cider (beer and cider products with an alcohol by volume content of 2.8% or less), with effect from midnight on 14 October 2008.
Coincidentally, isn't Guinness mid-strength 2.8%?
jmurphyc
15/10/2008, 10:14 AM
I didn't catch all of it, but it seems pretty gloomy alright. There's a lot of things in there that I don't agree with. The Government Registration fee for students is up to $1500. They may as well bring back fees the way that keeps jumping up each year.
Lionel Ritchie
15/10/2008, 10:41 AM
I didn't catch all of it, but it seems pretty gloomy alright. There's a lot of things in there that I don't agree with. The Government Registration fee for students is up to $1500. They may as well bring back fees the way that keeps jumping up each year.
It's a mockery alright. Going back 15 years now my registration fees were about IR£280 if I'm remembering correctly.
Angus
15/10/2008, 10:47 AM
...can I respond now? Consistently successful countries spend a bit more than twice per head what we allocate to education.
As for Health ...well I'm just guessing you don't have much call to visit hospitals. I'd suggest checking it's still there before you next venture to one though. ..and what's "Insufficient supervision?" ...sounds like you're calling for another one of these so-called "layers of beauracracy" there.
Yes, I have calmed down. I have regular occasion to visit hospitals (I have a minor asthmatic condition). I am also fortunate enough to have VHI (in the interests of full disclosure)
My point is that we have pumped billions into health without seeing a radical improvement in front line services - insufficient supervision refers to the fact that the politicians have decided that as there are no votes in this, they have tried to outsource the responsibility for managing the tonnes of resources they have - I have no interest in cutting anything on the front line - but I simply don't accept that the resources they have are satisfactorily managed
Everybody is to blame - pols, HSE, Health Boards, unions, consultants. Radical reform of the structure and practices is required - I am convinced that money alone cannot make the required dramatic improvements in front line services
Car park charge will be applied to every person who uses the space not the space itself. This means if you use 1 day a week you get charged E200. How do they determine urban area?
Seems like the budget was designed to ensure civil service admin staff have jobs as there are so many schemes & means testing.
The Lenihan Levy does not seem any fairer today.
VAT increase will only encourage people to shop in NI & the Internet which means state loses the 21% they already had on those purchases.
I await the "Green" budget with unease.
Dodge
15/10/2008, 10:54 AM
Seems like the budget was designed to ensure civil service admin staff have jobs as there are so many schemes & means testing.
Any chance of an explanation on this pete?
OneRedArmy
15/10/2008, 11:25 AM
Any chance of an explanation on this pete?The point I think he's making is that any means-tested system requires a lot more administration than a broad brush direct taxation measure and consequently this requires more civil service to administer and police the means testing.
Personally I don't think thats an intended goal, rather its an indirect consequence. But am still waiting to see how the civil service is going to share in the pain of the downturn in the way it got benchmarked to the private sector in the good times. There's surely room for a few thousand job reductions through natural wastage alone?
(on a semi-related theme see the Govt. slipped decentralisation "deferred" out in the middle of the budget news)
Dodge
15/10/2008, 11:37 AM
How are the public service any better off with this than the private sector?
BTW for reference (not aimed at your ORA), here's the OECD report that suggests that the irish civil service is pretty lean by international standards (http://www.bettergov.ie/attached_files/upload/IRELAND-Towards%20An%20Integrated%20Public%20Service.pdf) (its a .pdf file)
(on a semi-related theme see the Govt. slipped decentralisation "deferred" out in the middle of the budget news)
Possibly the only topic that public & private sector will agree on as an absolute disaster.
Obviously we need a public sector to delivery services such as health & education but how did we survive before without all the quangos (estimated at 1000) like the consumer agency telling me how to insure my car? :rolleyes:
When the Minister decided to call the new income tax increase a levy I doubt he predicted it would be called the Lenihan levy.
cheifo
15/10/2008, 12:24 PM
What really needs to go hand in hand with a tough budget IMO is for the Gov to let us know what plans they have for the economy.
What is bing done to safeguard the Multinationals staying here?
What are we doing to attract inward investment?
Now that Manufacturing doesn't seem to have a future what sectors will we be relying on for exports and to provide employment?
In other words there does not seem to be a plan to turn the economy so we come out of recession?
Billsthoughts
15/10/2008, 1:29 PM
What struck me was the measures to help the pubs. I mean how blatant are these lads?
What struck me was the measures to help the pubs. I mean how blatant are these lads?
My favourite was the €500 increase on all alcohol licenses, except for public houses. :D:rolleyes: Excise duty up on everythign except beer and spirits.
mypost
15/10/2008, 1:50 PM
The Dáil is debating the Budget, which was announced by Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan yesterday.
Taoiseach Brian Cowen defended the move telling TDs that hard decisions had to be taken if further services were not to be cut
Before the budget debate resumed this morning Leader's Questions was dominated by the measures announced yesterday.
Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny described the Budget as 'one of the most swingeing and savage' in years.
He said every single person in the country will have to pay for the Government's mistakes.
Labour leader Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach which of the '39 taxes and charges' he was most embarrassed by.
The Taoiseach said that if Labour contended that there should be no tax cuts then it would have to cut spending by €5.5bn.
There were also angry exchanges about the withdrawal of the medical card for people over 70 years of age.
The Taoiseach has also told the Dáil that in the coming weeks he will announce details of public sector reform that will include a 'rigorous appraisal of staffing levels'.
With ministers roaring their support Mr Cowen acknowledged that people would be worse off, regretted that his Government had to make hard decisions, but insisted that if they had not other services would ultimately have to be cut.
Last night, a late night sitting saw the Government comfortably win a series of votes on measures including an income levy, a VAT increase, and higher excise duty on petrol, cigarettes and wine.
Increases on cigarettes, wine and petrol, came into force immediately.
The VAT increase applies from December, while the income levy and motor tax increases will operate from the start of next year.
Billsthoughts
15/10/2008, 2:16 PM
www.irishtimes.com carrys piece on Lenihans stint on PK show this morning. worth reading.
BL - tough decisions were needed due to current circumstances.
PK - its not like the gov arrived from mars. you are responsible for this.
BL - eh stop being so negative..
:D
brendy_éire
15/10/2008, 3:17 PM
Personally, I'm a bit disgusted with the airport tax. We're effectively being punished for living on an island. It's all well and good taxing flights between France and Germany or even Britain and Belgium, for example, but when we went to go anywhere on the continent (except if you live on the south coast and want to go to France), flying is really the only option.
It's not like we can hop on a train to Paris or Frankfurt. If we were getting a boat it would take days.
Also, the Govt subsidises flights from Dublin to various regional airports, but then charges us €2 extra actually use the service. Genius. And with this extra €2 they'll get from these flights, they're reducing funding for regional airports by €2 million.
And another thing. Lenihan was onto the media whinging about southerners shopping in the north because it's cheaper. Yet, despite the fact that the entire population of Derry City and every other town/village within 20/30 minutes or more of the border buy their petrol/diesel in the south, he somehow came up with the idea of sticking an extra 8c on fuel duty. That effectively means that an average saving from the northern motorist buying their petrol in the south, filling up their tank, is now £3.50 (€4.40). Somehow I don't think that'll be enough of a saving to entice people to drive a bit further to get their fuel. Cue dozens of petrol station closures in Donegal, Leitrim, Monaghan, Cavan and Louth, with hundreds of jobs lost, aswell as the duty gained from fuel bought by northern motorists. Maybe I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Not that I'm against increasing the cost of motoring (and there are other ways to do that), but if you're going whinge about prices in the north being cheaper, don't make the one the thing that is cheaper in the south effectively the same price as it is in the north. Idiot.
There's currently 3 petrol stations left in Derry (the rest closed over 10 years ago), and their business is close to nil. I'll keep an eye out for more opening in the near future.
Billsthoughts
15/10/2008, 3:33 PM
what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?
jmurphyc
15/10/2008, 3:35 PM
what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?
Surely the extra 8 cents on petrol is partly a disincentive.
Magicme
15/10/2008, 3:38 PM
What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.
As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.
John83
15/10/2008, 3:39 PM
what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?
The Times just says "tax incentives". Nothing else seems to go into any more detail. Maybe this is just a spin on the petrol hike!
what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?
Cycle to work scheme
From 1 January 2009, the provision of bicycles and associated safety equipment by employers to employees who agree to use the bicycles to cycle to work will be treated as a tax exempt benefit-in-kind. The exemption may only apply once in any five year period in respect of any employee. There will be a limit on the value of such purchases of €1,000 for each employee. The scheme may also be implemented via salary sacrifice arrangements, whereby an employee agrees to forego part of his/her salary to cover the costs associated with the purchase of the bicycle and associated safety equipment. Where such salary sacrifice arrangements are implemented, they must be completed over a maximum period of twelve months.
The estimated cost of this scheme is €0.2 million in 2009 and €0.4 million in a full year.
http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html
jmurphyc
15/10/2008, 3:45 PM
What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.
As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.
:eek:
I didn't realise that! That really is shocking.
Perhaps its my personal bias as I am a smoker myself, but (and perhaps I'll be slated for generalising) the 50 cent extra on cigarettes is disgraceful too. I know that they've done this in previous years and that it is an attempt to stop young people from smoking, but I would think that poorer people generally smoke more, making the extra 50 cents a tax on the poor. If you don't have much money 8.05 is a LOT of money to be spending on cigarettes each day. I just don't know how the vulnerable in society are supposed to cope with the pressures that this budget has brought.
Billsthoughts
15/10/2008, 3:50 PM
As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.
Mmmm. For me personaly the 1 per cent levy is not going to be the end of the world and in tough times everyone has to take a hit. The airport tax as well is not that much considering the amount of times I will ever be flying out in a year. I appreciate that for people with families its different story tho.
My concern would be that they will just waste the extra revenue. They p*ssed away billions in the good times. Tax increases should be done in conjunction with reforms to combat waste and inefficiency. I dont really see them.
The Times just says "tax incentives". Nothing else seems to go into any more detail. Maybe this is just a spin on the petrol hike!
I was wondering how they would prove you were actually cycling to work? Maybe cheaper bikes and actual bike lanes that are not on the roads so as your life is not in danger might help.
John83
15/10/2008, 3:52 PM
What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.
As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.
The levy is the most regressive idea I've ever seen implemented by a minister for finance. If you live on the breadline, you still pay it. It's either a retarded attempt at PR by raising income tax without increasing the rates or a cynical decision to tax the poorest people in the country. I've been struggling to decide which is more likely from a FF government.
OneRedArmy
15/10/2008, 3:57 PM
Not only does it bring in the 1/3 of the working population that don't currently pay tax (which is wrong, wrong, wrong), its also levied on absolute gross income, before any deductions, therefore its effective rate is significantly higher than a corresponding increase in the income tax rates would be.
Sneaky.
Don't forget that the "levy" is taken on gross wages (so no tax credits etc apply) so it effects even those not surrently being taxed
EDIT; ORA got there before me
anto1208
15/10/2008, 4:11 PM
What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.
As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.
are you sure that's right ?
300 euro means you are earning 30 grand a year if you have say 2 kids you ll get 5 or 6 grand extra for them . i find it hard to imagine someone can class themselves as struggling on 36 grand a year. if your struggling then im screwed coz i dont earn anywhere near that much.
dahamsta
15/10/2008, 4:15 PM
I don't mind paying extra tax*, however I do mind paying it to economic buffoons that weren't able to spend money wisely when they had it coming out their ears. It needs to stop. These guys need to be hunted out of government now. Not in 3 years when they'll be firing goodies at the morons that voted them back in the last time, but right now this minute. With shotguns, preferably. I'll meet you at Dail Eireann.
adam
* Don't get me wrong, it'll be tough, but I do think we all need to pay our way if we can.
are you sure that's right ?
300 euro means you are earning 30 grand a year if you have say 2 kids you ll get 5 or 6 grand extra for them . i find it hard to imagine someone can class themselves as struggling on 36 grand a year. if your struggling then im screwed coz i dont earn anywhere near that much.
Yeah, and the kids don't eat, go to school or wear any clothes. And where are you getting 5 or 6 grand extra for the kids?
Shocking lack of real world experience exposed there anto...
Longfordian
15/10/2008, 4:31 PM
:eek:
Perhaps its my personal bias as I am a smoker myself, but (and perhaps I'll be slated for generalising) the 50 cent extra on cigarettes is disgraceful too. I know that they've done this in previous years and that it is an attempt to stop young people from smoking, but I would think that poorer people generally smoke more, making the extra 50 cents a tax on the poor. If you don't have much money 8.05 is a LOT of money to be spending on cigarettes each day. I just don't know how the vulnerable in society are supposed to cope with the pressures that this budget has brought.
I just can't agree with that at all. €8.05 is a lot of money to spend on cigarettes a day and that's the idea,to penalise you for smoking and discourage it. To say that the vulnerable in society need to smoke to cope with the pressure of the budget is a silly argument in my opinion. They'd be smoking regardless of the economic climate and if they don't have enough money to buy all the cigarettes they want and not scrimp on other things that's their choice and they shouldn't be complaining that they're starving because cigarettes are too dear. The same applies to drink by the way, it's your choice how you spend your money.
mypost
15/10/2008, 4:38 PM
These guys need to be hunted out of government now. Not in 3 years when they'll be firing goodies at the morons that voted them back in the last time, but right now this minute.
Governments collapsed for less serious budget issues. Ask John Bruton in 1982.
Sickening to watch Lenihan get the reception after his speech that has screwed half the country. A round of applause you'd expect, but not a standing ovation. :eek::mad:
The changes to alcohol tax are consistent with the recent off licence changes banning sales after 10pm. After 10pm is exactly the time you might want alcohol so of course can only get it in the pub,
The only reason I can see for applying "Lenihans levy" is that they thought that it would seen to be "only" 1%. Even 2% on the top rate of tax would be unlikely to bring in the same money. It can only seen as least worse political decision. I heard him explain it by saying that 34% of people (don't know what considered people for that figure) don't pay any tax so only fair they contribute. Taxing people at the minimum wage only serves to create wage inflation which in turn leads to price increases & makes the country more & more expensive.
On the cycling allowance 400k cost in full year would equate to E500 for 800 people.
Billsthoughts
15/10/2008, 4:45 PM
I just can't agree with that at all. €8.05 is a lot of money to spend on cigarettes a day and that's the idea,to penalise you for smoking and discourage it. The same applies to drink by the way, it's your choice how you spend your money.
I disagree. Tax on old reliables is just easy ways to generate revenue. they dont seem have any effect on stopping people drinking and smoking. If anything the increase on cigarettes will probably just feed black market. making both less easy to purchase would be more effective imo.
I just can't agree with that at all. €8.05 is a lot of money to spend on cigarettes a day and that's the idea,to penalise you for smoking and discourage it. To say that the vulnerable in society need to smoke to cope with the pressure of the budget is a silly argument in my opinion. They'd be smoking regardless of the economic climate and if they don't have enough money to buy all the cigarettes they want and not scrimp on other things that's their choice and they shouldn't be complaining that they're starving because cigarettes are too dear. The same applies to drink by the way, it's your choice how you spend your money.
I might be the argument that the high prices are a deterrent if they showed any statistics to back it up. They haven't, nor will they provide them in the future. This is a tax on smokers, nothing else.
We all know smoking is terrible for individuals and a strain on health services etc, but nowhere does the givernment say that taxes on cigarettes will be used in any specific, targetted way
BTW I'm a non smoker and one of those who thinks all smokers are evil
kingdom hoop
15/10/2008, 4:52 PM
The Government increasing price on cigarettes by as little as 50c is as much to discourage people from smoking as a dealer putting the price of a bag of coke up a fiver is trying to discourage people from buying his goods.
I don't think all smokers are evil. Nor drug dealers for that matter. Merely misguided.
Given the financial situation as I a non smoker I think 50c on cigarettes is a good decision although really only made to get easy money. Without dragging this off topic smoking is largely a choice (especially for the young) & if someone really wants to give it up they can - obviously it will be harder for older people.
Longfordian
15/10/2008, 5:44 PM
Not to drag this off topic any further but it wasn't really my whole point that this levy would reduce smoking in any meaningful manner. It probably won't but if it has any chance of doing so I won't criticise it. I can't see any benefit to reducing the price of them, as pete say if people want to stop they can, if they're not strong enough to do so it's unfortunate but even just smoking less would help both their pocket and their health. Just from a personal point of view, I was never really a smoker bar when I had the odd cigarette as a teenager just to "look cool". My parents both gave it up after smoking for about 30 years and are now completely off them something like 17 years. I'm not really death on smokers but it's their choice to smoke and if that costs them a large amount of money I don't think they can complain about it.
anto1208
15/10/2008, 10:51 PM
Yeah, and the kids don't eat, go to school or wear any clothes. And where are you getting 5 or 6 grand extra for the kids?
Shocking lack of real world experience exposed there anto...
Is there not some payment of about 1100 euro's per kids under 6,then for 2 kids you get 332 per month . so for 2 kids 6184 euro.
If you dont have a mortgage to pay for then your sorted if you do the interest rate went down by about 480 euro per 100,000 so thats where you find 300 euro for a tax levy.
Student Mullet
16/10/2008, 12:05 AM
actual bike lanes that are not on the roads so as your life is not in danger might help.Off topic but I strongly disagree with this.
It's either a retarded attempt at PR by raising income tax without increasing the rates or a cynical decision to tax the poorest people in the country.I think it's their attempt to cut through all the tax exemptions they've given out over the last decade. Reversing the bad laws would be too big a job so they've declared a new type of tax that that those laws don't apply to.
Shocking lack of real world experience exposed there anto...Everyone has real world experience, there's no other world.
Dodge
16/10/2008, 12:13 AM
I used to think that too...
dahamsta
16/10/2008, 12:21 AM
I didn't realise there were free houses out there anto. Can you hook me up with one?
Magicme
16/10/2008, 12:22 AM
are you sure that's right ?
300 euro means you are earning 30 grand a year if you have say 2 kids you ll get 5 or 6 grand extra for them . i find it hard to imagine someone can class themselves as struggling on 36 grand a year. if your struggling then im screwed coz i dont earn anywhere near that much.
I was rounding it up a little. I earn under 30k. As for getting the 5 to 6 grand extra I dont know what you are talking about as I get feck all. Try bringing 2 young men up on under 30k where your mortgate is 2/3 your wages and they eat equivilent to men and are now wearing shoes and clothes that are subject to adult vat and you will see where the struggle is amigo.
Just read your reply to dodge and if you really think that child benefit pays for the extra expense of having kids you will be in for a real shock someday. Recently I spent over 3k getting my sons teeth fixed as he was 1/2mm off getting them fixed for free. I couldnt bear the thoughts of him going through life lacking confidence and the ability to smile for the sake of 3k+ so I have sweated and scrimped to fix his teeth with no help from goverment or his father but it was worth every penny. Now the goverment want to remove any pennies I might have left from my wages leaving me unable to give my kids the things they deserve. I work approximately 50-60 hour weeks for my money but now will not be able to do things for my children that many take for granted because I will be hit with this extra bill at a time when I can barely afford to put petrol in my car. This is not the goverment I deserve or wanted. Brian Lenihan, live my life for a week and you will change your mind.
As for the airport tax it really wont affect me as I havent been able to afford to leave the country in 3 years when I went to my brothers wedding in spain.
Only favour FF (or fibbing f***ers as I like to call them) ever did me was lull me into a false sense of security long enough to move from a mortgage free life to the cash strapped hell I now live in.
sonofstan
16/10/2008, 7:23 AM
What she said.
I've been speechless with rage for the last two days about this; the income levy, coupled with the cod- patriotic appeal that we all need to do our bit is scumbag politics of the highest - or lowest - order. Taking €180 off someone on the minimum wage, when, as Magicme says, it can be the difference between heating the house and not, cutting the childrens' allowance at 18, a year when you'll probably need it most, taking away the automatic medical card for over 70s, increasing class sizes, upping college reg. fees - all these things will make vital differences in peoples' lives between just about coping, between having some choice and having none. And meanwhile, with the extension of the Affordable Housing scheme they've handed their builder chums €1.65 m from public funds.
anto1208
16/10/2008, 8:51 AM
I didn't realise there were free houses out there anto. Can you hook me up with one?
Where did i say you get a free house? Lots of people dont have mortgages as they have them paid off. Lots of single mums get social housing or they keep the family home after the split, or they inherited it from there parents. There are many reasons why some one wouldnt have a mortgage to pay . And if you do have a mortgage you save more than the 300 euro levy on the interest rate reduction. ( ill also point you to the last line of magicme's responce below. what does it say she moved from what to what ??)
I was rounding it up a little. I earn under 30k. As for getting the 5 to 6 grand extra I dont know what you are talking about as I get feck all. Try bringing 2 young men up on under 30k where your mortgate is 2/3 your wages and they eat equivilent to men and are now wearing shoes and clothes that are subject to adult vat and you will see where the struggle is amigo.
Just read your reply to dodge and if you really think that child benefit pays for the extra expense of having kids you will be in for a real shock someday. Recently I spent over 3k getting my sons teeth fixed as he was 1/2mm off getting them fixed for free. I couldnt bear the thoughts of him going through life lacking confidence and the ability to smile for the sake of 3k+ so I have sweated and scrimped to fix his teeth with no help from goverment or his father but it was worth every penny. Now the goverment want to remove any pennies I might have left from my wages leaving me unable to give my kids the things they deserve. I work approximately 50-60 hour weeks for my money but now will not be able to do things for my children that many take for granted because I will be hit with this extra bill at a time when I can barely afford to put petrol in my car. This is not the goverment I deserve or wanted. Brian Lenihan, live my life for a week and you will change your mind.
As for the airport tax it really wont affect me as I havent been able to afford to leave the country in 3 years when I went to my brothers wedding in spain.
Only favour FF (or fibbing f***ers as I like to call them) ever did me was lull me into a false sense of security long enough to move from a mortgage free life to the cash strapped hell I now live in.
Ah will you stop you earn 30 grand and you say 2/3 of that goes on a mortgage ! what in gods name where you doing getting a mortgage that costs you 20 grand a year !!! for a house for 3 of ye to live in if your a poor single mother. How big is your mortgage 300,000 ? And what bank gave you a mortgage thats 10 times your salery !!! That shardly the goverments fault thats your choice.
if it is 300,000 then you are saving over 1200 with the interest rate reduction last week so you are actually up money after paying the 300euro levy.
And for 2 kids under 18 you get 4 grand in childrens allowance.if you are getting nothing like you say then check it out you are entitled to it, if your a single parent you could also look into getting that allowance allthough i think your wages may be too high for that one.
If i was you id restructure that mortgage or sell and buy a smaller house so that only 10 grand a year goes on the mortgage.
collect your benifits that you seem to be missing out on.
There you go ive just got you an extra 14,000 euro a year have a holiday for yourself .
Billsthoughts
16/10/2008, 8:54 AM
Off topic but I strongly disagree with this.
Just out of interest how can you "strongly disagree" with this?:confused:
On the childrens allowance thing - I wouldnt begrudge anyone with kids an extra few bob from the state. As Magicme said it barely makes a dint in the cost. Also the same kids will be making a contribution to the state in a few years time so it pays for itself in the long run.
anto1208
16/10/2008, 9:17 AM
Just out of interest how can you "strongly disagree" with this?:confused:
On the childrens allowance thing - I wouldnt begrudge anyone with kids an extra few bob from the state. As Magicme said it barely makes a dint in the cost. Also the same kids will be making a contribution to the state in a few years time so it pays for itself in the long run.
Just to clear it up incase people think ( not directed at you ) im begrudging people anything i think all the expenses for children should be taken care of i think the CA should be doubled along with totally free education, medical dental expenses etc. also as soon as you turn 65 the same should happen. Its my duty to pay for that while im of working age i have no problem at all with that i would happily pay 25-30% tax if if was spent wisely on looking after people.
Thats not my point at all im just pointing out people have gotten Hysterical about this budget it has done very little to change peoples lives it did nothing but hamper the economy which is the problem with it. not that people will have an extra few quid to pay. People are getting hung up on the wrong things .
Petrol went up 8 cent ! it went down 12 cent the week before so its cheaper now than a month ago .
the 1 % levy ! so what interest rates went down.
If you contrast how well you did a month ago to now you are actually better off now.People should be focused on what this budget didnt do rather than what it did do.
jmurphyc
16/10/2008, 9:25 AM
I just can't agree with that at all. €8.05 is a lot of money to spend on cigarettes a day and that's the idea,to penalise you for smoking and discourage it. To say that the vulnerable in society need to smoke to cope with the pressure of the budget is a silly argument in my opinion. They'd be smoking regardless of the economic climate and if they don't have enough money to buy all the cigarettes they want and not scrimp on other things that's their choice and they shouldn't be complaining that they're starving because cigarettes are too dear. The same applies to drink by the way, it's your choice how you spend your money.
You misunderstood me. As I said, perhaps it's my bias in being a smoker, but I did not say that the pressure of the budget will make me smoke. At the same time though, and increase in the price of cigarettes will not almost all deter smokers from smoking. People will find a way to smoke regardless of the price, but ist just puts them under more pressure financially. When the government put the prices up 50 cents a few years ago I was largely in agreement with it but as it's already 7.55 it's already way too expenisive. Anyone who is on social welfare or in a low paying job and is having to pay that each day and raise kids is really going to struggle and if you've been smoking for 20 years you'll only give up if you want to, not because the government says they want you to. This is nothing more than a tax on smoking. However, there are plenty of other poor things brought in in this budget, this just happens to be one of the many.
EAFC_rdfl
16/10/2008, 9:27 AM
I was rounding it up a little. I earn under 30k. As for getting the 5 to 6 grand extra I dont know what you are talking about as I get feck all. Try bringing 2 young men up on under 30k where your mortgate is 2/3 your wages and they eat equivilent to men and are now wearing shoes and clothes that are subject to adult vat and you will see where the struggle is amigo.
Just read your reply to dodge and if you really think that child benefit pays for the extra expense of having kids you will be in for a real shock someday. Recently I spent over 3k getting my sons teeth fixed as he was 1/2mm off getting them fixed for free. I couldnt bear the thoughts of him going through life lacking confidence and the ability to smile for the sake of 3k+ so I have sweated and scrimped to fix his teeth with no help from goverment or his father but it was worth every penny. Now the goverment want to remove any pennies I might have left from my wages leaving me unable to give my kids the things they deserve. I work approximately 50-60 hour weeks for my money but now will not be able to do things for my children that many take for granted because I will be hit with this extra bill at a time when I can barely afford to put petrol in my car. This is not the goverment I deserve or wanted. Brian Lenihan, live my life for a week and you will change your mind.
As for the airport tax it really wont affect me as I havent been able to afford to leave the country in 3 years when I went to my brothers wedding in spain.
Only favour FF (or fibbing f***ers as I like to call them) ever did me was lull me into a false sense of security long enough to move from a mortgage free life to the cash strapped hell I now live in.
You can claim 20% (or 41%) of this back through the tax system (have a look on www.revenue.ie (http://www.revenue.ie)), so thats a small help from the government, even though it should be free. Im not long after getting braces off and I was able to claim part of the cost back. You are entitled to claim for most close relations, its all on the 'tax relief' section of that site
If you dont have a mortgage to pay for then your sorted if you do the interest rate went down by about 480 euro per 100,000 so thats where you find 300 euro for a tax levy.
Mortgage interest relief went down for the vast majority of homeowners
Interest rates only went down to levels they were a year ago, and even then, fixed rate mortgaegs aren't affected
Petrol went up 8 cent ! it went down 12 cent the week before so its cheaper now than a month ago
Are we going month to month now? Its more expensive now that it was 3 months ago.
If you contrast how well you did a month ago to now you are actually better off now.
Thats because most taxes and levies haven't come into being yet,. When they do, people will have less money in their pocket and pretty much everything they have to spend money on will be more expensive. You may be better off, but don't think that applies to the majority.
College fees raised dramatically. Education grants cut. Child allowance cut. VAT raised. Raising petrol and motor tax at the same time as cutting public transport spending.
Oh, I forget FF didn't raise income tax :rolleyes:
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