FAI Fans Forum Abbotstown, Saturday

[MariborKev]

Saying no-one else has posted on this, I'll do my best.If I leave anything else, I am sure someone will correct me.

First of all, there was a shocking attendance. Given the amount of abuse the FAI get on here, they opened the doors for people to come in and yet half the clubs didn't even bother to send anyone.

Derry, Sligo, Athlone, Wexford, Bohs, Shelbourne, Longford, UCD, Bray were only clubs who bothered to show up. No offence but for the amount of crying that goes on in various internet forums, people had the opportunity to step away from their keyboards and actually ask the questions.

The FAI were represented by Fran Gavin, Padraig Smith, Michael Hayes and Noel Mooney.

Fran Gavin(FG) opened with a presentation on the League, prize money, qualification for Europe, Setanta etc. The winners of the A League this year gets more prize money than Bohs did the last time they won the League.

Michael Hayes followed with explanations on the Setanta format, European coefficients etc.

Padraig Smith(PS) then gave a presentation on the financial end of the League, which was a very detailed session. To be fair to them, they knew it was coming and they had the data. 3 clubs have breached the SC, Galway being the most obvious case.

Padraig outlined basically "where it all went wrong".

In 2005 revenue in the League grew by 2%, wages by 23%
In 2006 revenue in the League grew by 5%, wages by 15%
In 2007 revenue in the League grew by 15%,wages by 31%
In 2008 revenue in the League grew by 51%,wages by 26%

PS discussed the case of Cork, and how you can't really deal with people who decide to "just play God" and walk away. There was a discussion over clubs having to lodge bonds etc, but investors will not agree due to fact this offers no return etc.

PS was scathing on the standard of audited accounts and audit reports from some of the clubs and said that clubs have been warned over this already. There was some talk of a League appointed auditor for all clubs.

The clubs lost €6.8m last year and will lose €3.3m this year. We were shown examples of the budgeting, monthly accounts etc that the clubs must complete. They also produced stats in terms of number of contracted players at each club. Derry lead the way with the biggest squad, The average figure was 21 pros I think.

There were lots of questions over the technicality of wage deferrals as remaining as ordinary creditors etc and how the salary cap is in operation. The legitmacy of financial statements were questioned amongst other matter.

The Revenue are very happy with the clubs at the minute and will probably ease off their investigations at the end of this season, such is the level of compliance. However the focus will now be on proper P60 compliance etc. Someone with a greater understanding of the ROI tax system probably took more from that section than me.

The major news here was that there are 400 players currently contracted to clubs, but only 90 of these are in contract past this season. The FAI firmly believe that this situation will allow the clubs to make a correction in the wage structure and that they will be able to significantly reduce wages through this. I have my doubts, as it assumes strong boards who are not focused on the short term success. However, the potential exists there, but it could turn out to go wrong in the classic "prisoner dilemma" situation.

The next section is very difficult to explain. Two fellas(Colm & ?) from myteam.ie gave a presentation. These lads were involved with the Drogs shop and are basically setting up and affliate scheme for the clubs. They are producing a pack of merchandise for €75 delivered, of which the clubs make €30 for no outlay. This will all be done through myteam.ie. Wexford, Cork and Galway are not participating. I thought this idea was madness and did say to the fella as much. The general feeling seemed to be the same from others there. I just don't see where the market is for this. However the two lads are putting in all their own money(6 figure sum) on the items and another massive advertising spend. They are only selling it online and are targeting the exile market. The site will go live on the 21/10.

There was a break after that, after which Noel spoke about the marketing off the League.

There was pieces here about the CPO, a tie up with the NDC etc. *Edit: Taken out information about costing

People split up into various groups there to discuss efforts to market the League and then reported these back after half an hour, to draw up ideas for going forward.

I mightn't agree with the FAI on everything, but I have to respect that they stood up to take the flack. A bit like the P1 proposal falling apart, there is plenty of moaning amongst the support, but if people don't turn up and ask the questions when they have the chance then they lose credibility.

I'll add more as I remember them;)

[dcfc1928]

Thanks for the report Kev, very interesting reading. Hopefully this type of forum continues and benefits the league.

[brianw82]

Was there any mention of the general negativity in the media about the league?

Shocking fact about RTE, alright. Just so I have this right, they were willing to offer the FAI 4million euro more to NOT show any live games/MNS?

[Dalymountrower]

Was there any mention of the general negativity in the media about the league?

Shocking fact about RTE, alright. Just so I have this right, they were willing to offer the FAI 4million euro more to NOT show any live games/MNS?


So RTE think that they can use license payers money to further marginalise and undermine an Irish industry (yeah well!) that employs hundreds of people? If this is true, The Sports Council, relevant Dail Committee should be made aware of this and RTE executives brought to account.

[dcfcsteve]

Good report Kev, and encouraging to read it.

Poor turnout for the clubs - and no excuse in particular for the lack of some Dublin clubs. Where the hell where Pats and Rovers fans ??

[gufcfan]

I think Galway and Sligo fans could be excused possibly, but still, shocking turnout.

I would have liked to have been there, but couldn't make it to the Showgrounds today even.

The 4 million is proof that RTE resent having to cover the LOI. MNS is a great show, forgetting Roddy:mad:.

He is revenge for being made to show the LOI.

I still think that the FAI could push RTE for more. It was genius to make them show more LOI by using the International rights as leverage, but I say milk the cnuts next time.

[MariborKev]

I'll wait to someone confirms the RTE thing, but that certainly how I understood it.

There was talk on the First Division and trying to show more of it in the coming weeks, as it is very tight at the top. However the FAI have no editorial control over the programme.

[MariborKev]

I think Galway and Sligo fans could be excused possibly, but still, shocking turnout.

Sligo, Shels, Athlone were all there and they had games this evening.

[gufcfan]

From what I understand, some people weren't overly impressed with the last forum.

Personally, I would have liked to have been there myself, or have seen one of our lads there.

Fairplay to the lads who went.

[Poor Student]

Thanks for posting that, Maribor. I remember some rumours on here before about RTÉ offering the FAI more money not to cover the LOI but I didn't know how seriously to take it. That's disgraceful.

[LeixlipRed]

That's a disgrace about RTE. Disgusting almost

[Sniffer]

Agree LR, unfortunately now that it is in the public domain it is sure to appear in the print media and will be used as another weapon of ridicule against the league.

[sligoman]

If this is true then RTE are an absolute joke. Seriously, what a disgrace.

[LeixlipRed]

Just sent a scathing email to RTE. I'm utterly disgusted by that. If they had their way the daily schedule would consist of Home and Away, You're a Star and Champions League re-runs.

[monutdfc]

Thanks for the write-up Maribor.
RTE are an Official Sponsor of the GAA Football Championship - how much does that cost?
For all the moaning here about the FAI, fair play to them for not taking the extra 4M.

[LeixlipRed]

Yeh, the FAI have to be applauded for that if we're all honest. It hurts me to say that though

[Tis-smeee]

As for attendance i was never aware of the open day till yesterday and neither was anybody i spoke too who would be involved in a big way so i dunno really

[MariborKev]

Lads,

Hold off till someone else confirms it. Maybe I picked it up all wrong.

Maybe it costs them €4m over the 6 years etc, and I just went off on a tangent and misunderstood it

Another mad thing I remember is that we can't show promotions of the League on the big screens at Croker, as the deal is we can't promote football there.

As OneRedArmy said to to me "We can't promote football at a football game"

[Schumi]

Lads,

Hold off till someone else confirms it. Maybe I picked it up all wrong.My understanding was very similar to what you've posted above.

Apparenty MNS gets upwards of 70k viewers, incidentally.

[dfx-]

...The Revenue are very happy with the clubs at the minute and will probably ease off their investigations at the end of this season, such is the level of compliance....

Really? :eek:

[gufcfan]

Apparenty MNS gets upwards of 70k viewers, incidentally.

The latest ratings figure i could get for "Premier Soccer Saturday" gives them only 102,000 viewers.

Take that RTÉ.

[A face]

That's a disgrace about RTE. Disgusting almost

There is no almost about it

[the-blue-harp]

i dont understand why rte as the national broadcaster, which we all fund let me add, dont promote our local football league. it really does beggar belief. they have to be held accountable for that, they really do. how is sending our tax paying money out of the country for rights on champions league games that dont concern us a good thing. this has to fecking change, it is meant to be the fundamental of a state run body to promote its own leagues, for the good of the people of the country.

on another, slightly related note, it was funny to listen to the "chelsea" and "liverpool" fans want england to get beat today. maybe thats the next step for rte, show england games, sure why not. its only our bleeding taxes paying for it.

[gufcfan]

the-blue-harp makes an excellent point.

You'd swear it was their money being spent.

**** them!

How does one go about publicising this and shaming them though?

[soccerc]

Csn people relax a little.

Maribor clearly states he could be wrong and I feel he has inadvertently rattled cages.

The FAI/RTE deal runs until 2013, two years beyond the current deal with the 22 clubs.

The €4m is in effect a red herring and is not licence payers money but a notional figure.

MNS, despite broadcasting in a prime time slot is not attracting viewers and is a major resource draw on RTE. Before anyone has a pop, I'm not defending RTE. The reality of 60/70k viewers at 8pm on a Monday evening is a commercial failure.

I'm a Pat's fan and was not there simply because I did not believe personally I'd have been welcomed,(I'm not going to get into any debate about that statement), nor would I be representative of the Saints overall fanbase.

[Buile Shuibhne]

As for attendance i was never aware of the open day till yesterday and neither was anybody i spoke too who would be involved in a big way so i dunno really


Can't speak for other clubs but Shels weren't invited to this forum or the last one in Feb this year.

We found about about both, thru threads here and rang up and got ourselves invited.


We had 1 rep there today, but would have had more if we'd received invitation and had more notice.

[soccerc]

.................

[MariborKev]

We had 1 rep there today, but would have had more if we'd received invitation and had more notice.

There were two there Fintan.

[OneRedArmy]

MNS, despite broadcasting in a prime time slot is not attracting viewers and is a major resource draw on RTE. Before anyone has a pop, I'm not defending RTE. The reality of 60/70k viewers at 8pm on a Monday evening is a commercial failure.I think this is the reality of the situation. As long as RTE try to be commercial whilst at the same time meeting the public interest remit, there are going to be situations like.

It can't surprise anyone that from a commercial perspective RTE would much rather show some American sitcom at 8pm on a Monday.

Fair play to the FAI.

[don ramo]

to right the national broadcaster shows national league games, only TV3 are there competiters, i think the FAI should sell to them next time and give RTE the finger, england is a different story, much more competition, cant be compairing us to them, pointless debate,

[KianD]

to right the national broadcaster shows national league games, only TV3 are there competiters, i think the FAI should sell to them next time and give RTE the finger, england is a different story, much more competition, cant be compairing us to them, pointless debate,

RTE neither own nor run TG4. They have more than one competitor.

[LeixlipRed]

Realistically, their only competitor when it comes to sport is Setanta. TV3 is an amateur hour version of ITV and TG4 is an excellent channel but is hardly stealing ratings away from RTE.

[Aaron]

Realistically, their only competitor when it comes to sport is Setanta. TV3 is an amateur hour version of ITV and TG4 is an excellent channel but is hardly stealing ratings away from RTE.

I find TG4's coverage amateur. Nothing to do with the language, i'd quite happily sit and watch it regardless, but the coverage is poor, not many camera angles covered, Charlie McGeever running from co-commentator to analyse before and after the game.

Setanta's coverage is probably the best, RTE's is good also. I just dont think TG4's is up to scratch, and McGeever laughing in commentary is cringeworthy, he does it all the time

[A face]

Can't speak for other clubs but Shels weren't invited to this forum or the last one in Feb this year.

We found about about both, thru threads here and rang up and got ourselves invited.

We had 1 rep there today, but would have had more if we'd received invitation and had more notice.

City was the same, the minute we found out about it and tried to get people there. There are alot of Cork City exiles in Dublin but we were contacting them mid week and i dont think it was enough notice for people.

We had the Hall of Fame Awards in Cork last night so alot of people would have been going to that. If there was a months notice then i think there would be 66 people there.

[MariborKev]

City was the same, the minute we found out about it and tried to get people there. There are alot of Cork City exiles in Dublin but we were contacting them mid week and i dont think it was enough notice for people.

If there was a months notice then i think there would be 66 people there.

The email was sent out(there was a Cork address on the list) on the 8th of September. There were follow up emails sent after that as well.

[Boh_So_Good]

There is no almost about it

and the thing is that RTE has absoluetly no idea how abnormal they are in doing this. In any other country in Europe regardless of the league size and profile it would almost certainly result in a sacking of those involved.

Could it be that certain individuals in power with RTE are being bribed by the British soccer industry?

Mods you can delete the above if not kosher, but if I I think there needs to be an investigation of certain individuals in charge of RTE Sports in terms of their behaviour and misuse of Irish taxpayers money in order to finance a wealthy overseas industry at not only the expense of our own one, but the overall moral nature of this behavior in terms of current world economic crisis.

Personally RTE Sports department are trying to destroy and Irish industry with the blessing of the Irish Government it would seem. Just like Dublin Bus wiping out private bus companies - these semi-states are crazy dangerous morons if not regulated.

[redgav]

re:MNS

The time of the Olmypics,when Con was in China,Tony O'D took over and did 2 MNS shows at a later slot.Speaking with him after a city game in Tolka ,he was saying that the later times for MNS gave as good if not better viewing figures than the prime time 8pm slot and had made RTE bosses sit up and take notice.It'd be of no surprise to see MNS at a later time next season

[passerrby]

i always thought that we get five million for international rights of which four is returned for screening mns and live games

[Terry]

re:MNS

The time of the Olmypics,when Con was in China,Tony O'D took over and did 2 MNS shows at a later slot.Speaking with him after a city game in Tolka ,he was saying that the later times for MNS gave as good if not better viewing figures than the prime time 8pm slot and had made RTE bosses sit up and take notice.It'd be of no surprise to see MNS at a later time next season

Interesting, I for one have actually never watched MNS at 8pm. I have it recorded on my sky+ box and watched it later as Im usually put the kid to bed at 8pm every evening. I sure there are loads more that record the programme too ?

[blackholesun]

I dont trust any of those ratings for TV or Radio programmes.

Out of the 100s of people who will read my post, does anyone have one of those ratings boxes in their house or know anyone who has one or has ever have one?

Surely it is in any broadcasters interest to hype up / warp the viewing figures, so they can charge full whack for the adds!

How scientific are these figures really?

Or are the add agenices in cohoots with the broadcasters and the whole thing is a bit of a pull the wook job or wha?

bhs

[Sheridan]

Bhs, they're not infallible but they're pretty accurate. Broadcasters take tough decisions based on these ratings all the time. Major shows get cancelled if they're not cutting the mustard and unlikely hits are recognised and recommissioned.

[blackholesun]

Bhs, they're not infallible but they're pretty accurate. Broadcasters take tough decisions based on these ratings all the time. Major shows get cancelled if they're not cutting the mustard and unlikely hits are recognised and recommissioned.

Hhhhmmmm, I heard all this before but still have my suspicisions. The wikipedia page on tv ratings is interesting to read.

I read freakonomics this week, so am questioning alot of these "givens".

If a random sample is to be scientifically accurate then the sample size should be fairly large, so I find it a bit bizarre that I have NEVER come across a friend, neighbour, workmate, relation etc, or even friend of a friend who had one of these boxes at home!?

Has even here EVER seen one of these or know someone who had one!?

bhs

[finnpark]

Hhhhmmmm, I heard all this before but still have my suspicisions. The wikipedia page on tv ratings is interesting to read.

I read freakonomics this week, so am questioning alot of these "givens".

If a random sample is to be scientifically accurate then the sample size should be fairly large, so I find it a bit bizarre that I have NEVER come across a friend, neighbour, workmate, relation etc, or even friend of a friend who had one of these boxes at home!?

Has even here EVER seen one of these or know someone who had one!?

bhs

I don't know anyone either. You would think that you would come across someone at some stage. Maybe they don't exist

[Terry]

I knew a guy who had it in his house before when he was renting.

[blackholesun]

Maybe they don't exist

or are all located in houses in the Donnybrook area ;)

bhs

[KianD]

Hhhhmmmm, I heard all this before but still have my suspicisions. The wikipedia page on tv ratings is interesting to read.

I read freakonomics this week, so am questioning alot of these "givens".

If a random sample is to be scientifically accurate then the sample size should be fairly large, so I find it a bit bizarre that I have NEVER come across a friend, neighbour, workmate, relation etc, or even friend of a friend who had one of these boxes at home!?

Has even here EVER seen one of these or know someone who had one!?

bhs

There's only a few hundred of them; and I have known of someone who had one - but currently not.

Having worked in TV, I don't trust them as far as I could throw them - or the company running them either (both here and the UK). Too many points of failure - too small an audience set; majority of homes are middle class, dual income, two kids setups; can't guarantee everyone in the house really bothers with the box, and so on. The UK ratings used to report 'zero or close to zero' ratings - e.g. no boxes - during shows when we knew we had thousands of viewers due to SMS volume...

[eamo1]

I thought every t.v bought in the last 10 yrs or so has one of them built into tthe t.v set,is this true??
Boy talk about going off topic,what were we talking about again????;).

[finnpark]

The latest ratings figure i could get for "Premier Soccer Saturday" gives them only 102,000 viewers.

Take that RTÉ.

Thats shocking bad if true considering British football gets huge media coverage.

Ive noticed big time that people don't really care about any sport this year whether it be GAA, British football or Ireland Internationals. And its all down to money. The players are getting paid too much and are made out to be Gods for just kickign a football around. Too much money will eventually ruin any sport. Thank God half the clubs in Britain are going bust too.

In the case of GAA the ticket prices and rumours about players/managers getting paid as well as fraud rumours are destroying it.

[A face]

The email was sent out(there was a Cork address on the list) on the 8th of September. There were follow up emails sent after that as well.

What address was it sent to? PM me if you wouldn't mind


and the thing is that RTE has absolutely no idea how abnormal they are in doing this. In any other country in Europe regardless of the league size and profile it would almost certainly result in a sacking of those involved.

Could it be that certain individuals in power with RTE are being bribed by the British soccer industry?


Personally i have no problem with it. They made a 'Public' charter available to people to subscribe to a few years ago, but no one was able to do actually that. I dont know do they grasp the whole 'public', 'national broadcaster' and 'taxpayers money' thing.

I have been saying it for years. The complete hypocrisy during the Olympics with RTE Presenters and Commentators demanding to have the answer as to why we were doing so bad, and not one once of guilt for their neglect for the last four years for this campaign, and all the years before that.

I know they will harp on about ratings and they will make out that they have no obligation and can show where ever they deem fit but its complete bull. If you look at any other country in the run up to the Olympics, their teams were house hold names. RTE get away with murder. They haven't a leg to stand on.

[Angus]

Agree with initial post - attendance was terrible and while the FAI take a lot of heat, 4 of them took their entire saturday out to talk to fans - the fact that attendance was poor is disappointing.

Clearly, based on Saturday, there is a profesisonal approach being taken to the thing - based on what Padraig said (very impressive guy) we can have confidence that the whole thing is being approached properly.

Two key statements which sum the whole thing up:

He said that 80% of players are out of contract at the end of this season, so the clubs can dictate their financial health next year

The league is financially viable


I came away more confident that they are taking a professional approach to the league - yes they have and will make mistakes - who doesn't - but it was interesting