Harps in dire financial trouble!!

[dublinwanderer]

this in my opinion is another sign that professional football in ireland is not sustainable. - unless you've got a millionaire owner. how many clubs have got to have financial problems for people to realise this? galway, sligo, cork and now harps? all in one season... something seriously has gone wrong. whether it be the FAI licensing i dont know or just board mebers with fantasies.....

this is the time when supporting bray, who have struggled through themselves but have not got any major financial worries is so fulfilling. they dont spend money they dont have!!!

[Mr A]

I don't think the club really made a decision to go full time. Hegarty asked for a certain budget to really try to make a go of it in the premier (our disastrous last visit nearly killed us and most of us believed we had a really excellent manager at the club), was given it and he then proceeded to give division 1 players full time deals instead of bringing new and better players to the club. If anything, for the first half of this season we were a worse side than last year. We have ****ed away so much money this season it's untrue- if it had been properly spent we probably would have actually balanced the books or close to it at least. Sustaining it never looked likely but a one year push to get in the ten team premier was doable. With some serious fundraising it still is.

[dublinwanderer]

but why did the board give hegarty all that funding? they took a chance and it didnt pay off and now you's are paying the price. hegarty should be sacked for the mess then, if what you are saying is true. But someone gave him the money to spend, the club obviously never had the money to spend in the first place.

[Dodge]

Not to put words in the harps fans mouths but I think what they're saying is that if the money was better spent, they would've had better players and therefore had a better team which may not have seen a drop in crowds. The actual amount of money probably wasn't that bad I'd imagine, its just that they weren't getting value for money.

Loads of players overpaid throughout the league. No one to blame but the clubs

[Krstic]

Not to put words in the harps fans mouths but I think what they're saying is that if the money was better spent, they would've had better players and therefore had a better team which may not have seen a drop in crowds. The actual amount of money probably wasn't that bad I'd imagine, its just that they weren't getting value for money.

Loads of players overpaid throughout the league. No one to blame but the clubs

What's to say that Hegarty didn't try to sign better players?
He may have ended up signing the pish players that he signed as he had no other options.

It's a problem that all provincial teams encounter, players would prefer to live in places like Dublin, Belfast and Cork. It's only when these options run out do they then agree to play in the stix.

Derry encountered the same problems when Fenlon thought that he'd take the back bone of his last Shels team to Derry with him, the players who were wanted by Dublin Clubs, stayed in Dublin and the pish came to Derry.
Roy Keane is having the same problem at Sunderland.

So I think it's unfair to blame Paul Hegarty for Ballybofey being such a $hit-hole.

[Mr A]

I think that's a fair summation Dodge. The budget was a stretch, but not completely outrageous.

Even a small thing like having Derry at home twice rather than away twice could have seen us keep the wages paid until the end of the season. It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.

[Sam_Heggy]

What's to say that Hegarty didn't try to sign better players? .

He did but his "mate" kenny hijacked 2 of them. Callaghan and McGinn.
He also spoke to Gary Deegan and quite a few others but, Hegarty was given his budget he decided to blow most of it giving mediocre first division players better wages on full time contracts.
I know Paul did not set out to f*ck up Harps, he obviously wanted better players, he obviously wanted to be higher up the table but, it didn't work out that way. Football fans are fickle, if Harps were getting results against some of the bigger teams our crowds would be double what they are now.

The blame must lie at a few peoples feet but lessons will be learned and we will hopefully come out of this alot stronger and wiser for the experience.

[sadloserkid]

But seriously, I can't understand why so many clubs has big financial problems. I mean, where is the problem to spend only so much money wich they really have? If I haven't money I can't buy that what I want or I can't spend more as I have. That's life.

To be blunt robertob it is simply because the majority of people involved in running senior football clubs in Ireland are nothing more than well meaning morons whose only notable characteristics are enthusiasm and a shortsightedness that actually makes me wonder how these people get through life on a day to day basis. Clubs that have to renegotiate contracts should get punished as well while I'm at it. A player will get fairly short shrift in most cases in this league is he walks in mid season and demands an improved contract because he's doing better than expected. Quite why clubs get away with miscalculating/lying about income streams is anybody's guess.

I heard the other day that there's only two clubs in the league this season who haven't delayed wages at some stage or another. If half true, that's a fairly damning indictment of our 'professional' league.

[finnpark]

Hopefully this is on the way in the not too distant future. However, a winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

My GOD, you think the same way a board does. A winning team is the last part of a very big jigsaw. The stadium is a kip and the youth development is a joke. You really think that people will pay money to a barn shed and a team of Derry City rejects?



Intense PR and marketing. The Harps PRO for last season was given an award by the Soccer Writers Association of Ireland. We have upwards of seven or eight newspapers in Donegal that give Harps top billing in their soccer section. A winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

The GAA coverage dwarfs the Harps coverage and Highland Radio seem more concerned with West Ham, Hull and Barnet etc. And what about a supporters club and local branches in every town and links with other organisations. As far as I can see its catchment area is Ballbofey and not Donegal wide. As mentioned previously on here the atmosphere and lack of supporter organisation at Harps is crap.



A professional team. Not sustainable in the current format as has been evidenced this season. You cannot turn players overnight into professional players. This should be done on a gradual basis phasing it in over four to five seasons, starting with the younger players in the squad. Unfortunately time is not something most clubs are prepared to invest in their pursuit of success.
Not sustainable when you pay too big of wages. The team is ahead in fitness and physic over the likes of Cobh and UCD and even Bray and Rovers. the results prove this. Professionalism does work and is working. What more do you expect, European Qualification? Pats, Drogs, Bohs etc are spending 2M+ trying to do this and not able to do it each season.

Professionalism is sustainable when the facilities and PR are in place along with a productive youth system to provide the players. Professionalism doesn't mean you have to pay a manager over a grand a week and pay players big wages. Minimum wage is all that is required.

As far as I can see its the amateurism off the field that is the problem, not the professionalism on the field. Apart fromt the binges the players went on before the Galway and SLigo matches etc the results indicate that professionalism in the modest form on the field is working.

[finnpark]

I think that's a fair summation Dodge. The budget was a stretch, but not completely outrageous.

Even a small thing like having Derry at home twice rather than away twice could have seen us keep the wages paid until the end of the season. It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.

Good point and thanks to the FAI the Derry match, which is our big money spinner for the season, was on a Tuesday :rolleyes:

The Friday night option instead of Saturday night is a disaster too.

[stickyjoe]

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?

[dcfc1928]

So you're perfectly happy with DCFC's current location, and don't feel the club should look to move to another part of they city then?

Or could it be that the only realistic prospect of getting the facilities you need is more or less where you're at already?

The club has insisted since Brandywell Properties came into being that the only show in town in terms of getting a new stadium was the Brandywell.

I myself would prefer if the club moved elsewhere to Fort George, my preferred choice or even to Templemore. Fort George would provide the space for a new stadium and open up new options for commercial development and income. There is easier access to that area from all areas of the city and from Donegal, from Belfast and from the South. It's my preferred choice and a lot of people on Derry City Chat agree with this but the club has made it clear that the only place that a new stadium would be built is in the Brandywell.

[finnpark]

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?

Yes, I was wondering this myself :o

[higgins]

It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.


All players out of contract at the end of the season?
Unusual to have full time players on less than a 52 week contract.

How big will the drop in wages be after your final league game ?

[John83]

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?
I think their court case isn't up for a few weeks yet.

[Candystripe]

[QUOTE=Sam_Heggy;1032017]He did but his "mate" kenny hijacked 2 of them. Callaghan and McGinn. [/QUOTE

I knew about Callaghan but thsi is the first I've heard about McGinn!

I bet he's glad he signed for Derry now ;)

[Mr A]

All our players are out of contract at the end of the season except possibly Gethins.

[HarpsinDublin]

My GOD, you think the same way a board does. A winning team is the last part of a very big jigsaw. The stadium is a kip and the youth development is a joke. You really think that people will pay money to a barn shed and a team of Derry City rejects?


The GAA coverage dwarfs the Harps coverage and Highland Radio seem more concerned with West Ham, Hull and Barnet etc. And what about a supporters club and local branches in every town and links with other organisations. As far as I can see its catchment area is Ballbofey and not Donegal wide. As mentioned previously on here the atmosphere and lack of supporter organisation at Harps is crap.


Not sustainable when you pay too big of wages. The team is ahead in fitness and physic over the likes of Cobh and UCD and even Bray and Rovers. the results prove this. Professionalism does work and is working. What more do you expect, European Qualification? Pats, Drogs, Bohs etc are spending 2M+ trying to do this and not able to do it each season.

Professionalism is sustainable when the facilities and PR are in place along with a productive youth system to provide the players. Professionalism doesn't mean you have to pay a manager over a grand a week and pay players big wages. Minimum wage is all that is required.

As far as I can see its the amateurism off the field that is the problem, not the professionalism on the field. Apart fromt the binges the players went on before the Galway and SLigo matches etc the results indicate that professionalism in the modest form on the field is working.

And you obviously think a shiny new stadium will be full every week, without a winning team on the pitch? I can tell you now it wont! But we will have to wait and see what I can tell you is that in the past Donegal people will come in big numbers to a barn shed and yes a kip of a ground when Harps are winning. Proven fact.

Yes GAA coverage dwarfs Harps coverage but let's have a reality check. How many registered clubs and GAA players are there in the county? How many Harps fans? GAA sells papers and gets people to listen to the radio, like it or not it is also the national sport.

It is up to supporters to start up supporters clubs not the Finn Harps Football Club. Why is there only the B & S SC and Dublin SC still running? Apathy on the part of Finn Harps supporters perhaps. When we won the First Division in 2004 you also had the Donegal Town & District SC (where are they now?) and the Inishowen SC (where are they now?). If you really want me to go on I can go back to S.C.'s that were running in the 80's that are also defunct.

Harps are not paying big wages (if the figures I have heard are true) compared to the likes of the Dublin clubs, Cork, Galway (prior to their crisis) and Derry City but are not sustainable in the current format. I think you agree with this point. Minimum wage might work with some players but not with the majority of them. Most (like ourselves) will insist on getting paid what they think they are worth.

I totally agree with you about the amateurism off the field in point of fact I feel that is one of the reasons we have failed this season. You dont take part-time players and make them professionals by making them full-time.

[finnpark]

Paying mediocre players a full-time wage won't make them any better, and the benefits of fitness and cohesion are too marginal to be of any consequence in a league where everyone plays basically the same style of football.

I think the fitness issue is quite important. Last season Cobh finished ahead of Harps. This season it looks like Harps will finish a fair bit ahead of Cobh. The fitness has made a big difference and of course there are other aspects of being full time such as fatigue, focus and motivation.

But I do agree with you that rubbish players should not get paid. I think part time is a total joke though. You are just paying the best amateur players. Wexford Youth's amateur youth system looks the best to me in the long term. Im sure they could turn professional with ana verage wage ~€300.

[finnpark]

And you obviously think a shiny new stadium will be full every week, without a winning team on the pitch? I can tell you now it wont! But we will have to wait and see what I can tell you is that in the past Donegal people will come in big numbers to a barn shed and yes a kip of a ground when Harps are winning. Proven fact.


No, but the stadium is a good first step. have a pro step before having a decent stadium makes no sense. The stadium is of a higher priority.

Harps are doing ok, out of the relegation zone, were 2nd last season :confused: The on field performance seems good to me :confused: What do you expect? Champions, Europe, Champions League? ....

Ive been to Finn Harps for winning games. The stadium is a kip and the atmosphere is crap. I don't know why I go back. The football part is ok even when we lose. With full time club officials its up tot hem to organise and facilitate atmosphere etc

[HarpsinDublin]

No, but the stadium is a good first step. have a pro step before having a decent stadium makes no sense. The stadium is of a higher priority.

Harps are doing ok, out of the relegation zone, were 2nd last season :confused: The on field performance seems good to me :confused: What do you expect? Champions, Europe, Champions League? ....

Ive been to Finn Harps for winning games. The stadium is a kip and the atmosphere is crap. I don't know why I go back. The football part is ok even when we lose. With full time club officials its up tot hem to organise and facilitate atmosphere etc

Agreed with the stadium but I dont follow your arguement. The new stadium is being built for us by the Contractor who will get Finn Park. With grants and the contractor's contribution it is not going to cost us money, why is it a priority above going professional? It is going to happen in spite of us going professional unless the club folds.

I have been following Finn Harps for almost 35 years, through thick and thin...mostly thin, very thin, so no I dont expect anything. I havent mentioned anything about the team's performance in this thread.

If you dont know why you go to Finn Park that is a matter for yourself. Why should full time club officials create the atmosphere. Dont think any club in any country gets the atmosphere going by way of officials. That is up to supporters to do, create an atmosphere least it was the last time I went to a football match - last Friday night in Bray.

[Matchman]

Ballybofey is no bigger than a village

How in gods name could it support a full-time team? Get real, only Derry in the North-West will be able to support one in the long run

[carrickharp]

Ballybofey is no bigger than a village

How in gods name could it support a full-time team? Get real, only Derry in the North-West will be able to support one in the long run
Cheers for that, did you even read the posts above:rolleyes:

[finnpark]

Ballybofey is no bigger than a village

How in gods name could it support a full-time team? Get real, only Derry in the North-West will be able to support one in the long run

Its true, but if the club is branded county wide with a lot of hard work (not much money required) I think it could easily support a full time set-up with a mixture of cheap foreign players and players developed through a good youth system. Although I can't see it happening as it has not happened for the past 40 years :rolleyes:

[sadloserkid]

but if the club is branded county wide

I'm noy convinced that that's really worked with any other club in the country, why would Donegal be every different? Realistically what percentage of anybody's gate (excluding away support) comes from further away than say 20 or 30 miles from the ground?

One point that I agree wholeheartedly with finnpark is that one of the problems with full-time players here is the money they're on as opposed to simply having fulltime players. What's to stop clubs offering somewhere between say between 400-600 or so a week to players? Aside from, in most cases, gross stupidity and an insistence of chasing a dream that we're no closer to achieving?

I mean look at Cork (for example). Their wage budget had to have been a fairly contributary factor in their massive debts. And what do they have to show for it? One title and one cup in the last few years and arguably less achieved in Europe than some of the other 'big' clubs. Money is being lavished on players who just aren't good enough to justify the outlay. It's too easy to blame the players for being mercenary or greedy too. The fault is 100% the fault of the clubs. Any club that is spending money that they don't have should be absolutely hammered. As a league we will never, ever progress with this ludicrous devotion to boom/bust economics.

[finnpark]

I'm noy convinced that that's really worked with any other club in the country, why would Donegal be every different? Realistically what percentage of anybody's gate (excluding away support) comes from further away than say 20 or 30 miles from the ground?

One point that I agree wholeheartedly with finnpark is that one of the problems with full-time players here is the money they're on as opposed to simply having fulltime players. What's to stop clubs offering somewhere between say between 400-600 or so a week to players? Aside from, in most cases, gross stupidity and an insistence of chasing a dream that we're no closer to achieving?

I mean look at Cork (for example). Their wage budget had to have been a fairly contributary factor in their massive debts. And what do they have to show for it? One title and one cup in the last few years and arguably less achieved in Europe than some of the other 'big' clubs. Money is being lavished on players who just aren't good enough to justify the outlay. It's too easy to blame the players for being mercenary or greedy too. The fault is 100% the fault of the clubs. Any club that is spending money that they don't have should be absolutely hammered. As a league we will never, ever progress with this ludicrous devotion to boom/bust economics.

Ive said it before. The clubs should all go together and agree not to bid against each other for any player eg Galway, harps, Corka and a few other clubs were bidding against each other for Deegan's sig. You can see how all 3 clubs ended up in trouble. Whoever opens negotiations with a player first should be allowed to sign the player without interference from other clubs. If clubs could agree on this it would help stop the inflation of players wages.

There is not much talent left now amongest the lower half clubs so i think its time for clubs to invest in scouting and statistical analysis of players in labour cheap countries such as Lithuania as Bohs have done.

Have a read of this:
http://www.bohemians.ie/index.php/interviews/kalonasint.htm

Its time that Irish clubs signed more class acts like Kalounas from abroad rather than offering/bidding bigger wages for players that are already in the league.

[Dodge]

The clubs should all go together and agree not to bid against each other for any player eg Galway, harps, Corka and a few other clubs were bidding against each other for Deegan's sig. You can see how all 3 clubs ended up in trouble. Whoever opens negotiations with a player first should be allowed to sign the player without interference from other clubs. If clubs could agree on this it would help stop the inflation of players wages

Get real will you? The problem isn't clubs competing for players, its competing for players with money you don't have.

Do you honestly think Deegan signing for Bohs had a negative effect of Cork, Harps or Galway's finances?

[sadloserkid]

Get real will you? The problem isn't clubs competing for players, its competing for players with money you don't have.

Dead right. Clubs just need to take a dose of reality into their negotiations really. When player X demands two grand a week or whatever just say no. Given that hardly anybody can afford it anyway if the clubs weren't artifically inflating the wages throughout the league these players would have to play here for less or go abroad. And while it sounds like a disaster losing some of the league's better players if we can't actually afford to keep them anyway we're only deluding ourselves.

[Cormac]

I think Harps went full-time a little sooner than they should have! I hope they get themselves out of this mess tho as my Girlfriends a harps fan and she'd be sad if they went bust lol

[harps1954]

All players out of contract at the end of the season?
Unusual to have full time players on less than a 52 week contract.

How big will the drop in wages be after your final league game ?

Only Paul Hegarty and Conor Gethins have contracts beyond the last game of the season. Everyone else was on a one-year deal which ends at the last game of thes season.

[dcfcsteve]

It is up to supporters to start up supporters clubs not the Finn Harps Football Club. Why is there only the B & S SC and Dublin SC still running? Apathy on the part of Finn Harps supporters perhaps. When we won the First Division in 2004 you also had the Donegal Town & District SC (where are they now?) and the Inishowen SC (where are they now?). If you really want me to go on I can go back to S.C.'s that were running in the 80's that are also defunct.

Probably on their way back home from the Brandywell.....

[higgins]

Only Paul Hegarty and Conor Gethins have contracts beyond the last game of the season. Everyone else was on a one-year deal which ends at the last game of thes season.

Well fair play to haps so.. good move.
Things must be very tight if all you need is 6 weeks wages and can't pay that in full?

Certainly would seem like you're over the 65% too ?

[don ramo]

Galway will probably beat Cork anyway tomorrow night and we will lose to Pats. Its all one big conspiracy

:D:D:D

[cestlavie]

Is he still at the club, bless.

[Sam_Heggy]

Is he still at the club, bless.


Say what now?

[cestlavie]

Hegarty, Is he still there?

[Sam_Heggy]

Hegarty, Is he still there?

Ask me in a week or so.

Why are you so interested? Are you one of those sad Derry folk who have their tongue so far up his jacksie that you need permission just to speak?

Funny how you also keep bringing up about Paul Hegarty in a thread labelled "Harps in dire financial trouble!!", kind of apt when he's the one who got us in that situation, lucky we have some people at the club that give a sh!t and raised the money he wasted on the likes of sicknote Beckett, sicknote Byrne, sicknote Labonte and short arse Friel.

Ah I feel better now. :D

[cestlavie]

I think you taken it all up wrong mate, I do not think he is any good as a manager never mind an assistant manager, he has messed up considering the budget he had, really terrible signings, Beckett had no intention of playing for Harps.

[father ted]

sorry to hear one of the most hostipable clubs in trouble.
1 get the fans to dig deep in the pockets.
2 dontbe afraid to approach people who have been in this situation.Iam sure they would be glad to give advice.ie srfc.
put contact nos. on other club sites looking for donations
It would be a shame if one of the finest clubs in Ireland went bust.
Best away trip in loi. sincerly.srfc supporter

[Rovers1]

Harps consider going amateur..

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/eircomleague/news.asp?n=35403