Harps in dire financial trouble!!

[Mr A]

The wage cap depends on how much you're spending off the field- spend enough and you can have whatever budget you want for players. I don't think Harps have gone near 65% TBH.

[holidaysong]

The FAI said that clubs would be monitored from month to month to make sure they didn't exceed 55%. Once the 55% mark was breached, the FAI would put in place a transfer embargo and other restrictions to ensure that clubs didn't go over the 65% mark. This is what they said happened with Galway - they went over 55 but were still under 65.

I think the FAI need to come out and say who is and isn't breaking the wage cap and take appropriate action.

[pineapple stu]

Most clubs in serious trouble for the past 20 years. Only real difference this year is that some seem to be doing something about it
Were the amounts as bad as this year though? Everyone seems to have been trying full-time football, which I don't think was the case before? And obviously everyone's gone pop at once, which is a slight difference, if only from the media viewpoint.

Still, a nice vision of a Platinum One future.

[Mr A]

Jeepers. You nearly think Dundalk had never had financial problems....

[holidaysong]

The wage cap depends on how much you're spending off the field- spend enough and you can have whatever budget you want for players. I don't think Harps have gone near 65% TBH.

It doesn't depend on what you're spending off the field, it depends on your income. Wages for the year must be below 65% of income.

[holidaysong]

Jeepers. You nearly think Dundalk had never had financial problems....

I know we have had trouble in the past but there wasn't a wage cap then..

[Mr A]

A large part of the reason there's so much of this this year is because of the transition to the ten team premier. This means clubs feel they have to spend in order to stay up or else face banishment to the graveyard, which will be harder than ever to get out of. Plus the AIL was on the horizon and clubs wanted to give themselves a chance of being in it if it happened.

[Longfordian]

Just another point in relation to the 65%, that doesn't include the wages of the manager and backroom staff, solely the players.

[Inside Man]

Can't help but laugh at all the UCD fans the way they say all of us clubs in financial difficulty have screwed them. Just thought it was funny looking at their posts in this thread because its clear there so frustrated.

Anyway. Moving swiftly on. Doesn't seem too bad. Sounds alot like our plea to fans earlier in the year which is sorted out for now it seems.

[holidaysong]

There'll be a bit on the sports news on RTÉ about it in a wee bit.

[blackholesun]

>This is an absolute disgrace. No wonder UCD fans are p*ssed off.

The only club TO DATE that UCD can whinge about losing too are Cork City as they are the only club found SO FAR to be in breech of the licence.

The rest of the clubs projected certain revenues, these projections were accepted by the FAI, then the projections fell short and the clubs scrimped and scraped and asked players to take a pay cut to get by till the end of the season.

Now if at the end of the season, any club has outstanding debts and is refused a premier license then UCD might get to stay up, other they deserve to go down.

And before some UCD fan moans about the projections being off the wall in the first place, similar such off the wall projections about attendences and the future of the club off the pitch were included by UCD by the hatfull in their original application to be part of the new FAI Premier Division, so they havent a leg to stand on there.

bhs

[pineapple stu]

No UCD fan is complaining about projections being off the wall. As an accountant, I'm well aware what projections are worth.

[Bald Student]

And before some UCD fan moans about the projections being off the wall in the first place, similar such off the wall projections about attendences and the future of the club off the pitch were included by UCD by the hatfull in their original application to be part of the new FAI Premier Division, so they havent a leg to stand on there.Link?

[6yardpunisha]

was sorry to hear about harps being in trouble, great club and great supporters, we know what its like down here as we are in the same crap. Hope harps recover

[robertob]

Oh my god, the next club in financial trouble! That isn't good for the League. I can't understand how it could happen. Why so much Teams in difficulty? That is a disgrace absolutely.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Link?
Attendences were definitely lied about that season, that's one thing for certain. I thought you knew that.

At the Alumni Dinner in 07 the club had a 5 year plan included in an information booklet. I presume this was the same that was presented to the IAG. I can't remember the full details but included in it was winning the Premier Division within five years and at least every five years after that. If I still had the info I would send it on to you.

[finnpark]

Oh my god, the next club in financial trouble! That isn't good for the League. I can't understand how it could happen. Why so much Teams in difficulty? That is a disgrace absolutely.

If you can just collect €1 from everyone in Germany we will get €82,400,996 (you can keep the 996 for yourself).

There will be no problem if we get big crowds between now and the season end.

You cannot deduct points of Harps for reducing player wages especially since Galway, Cobh and Sligo have done the same. If they do they can see us in court :p

[Rovers1]

You cannot deduct points of Harps for reducing player wages especially since Galway, Cobh and Sligo have done the same. If they do they can see us in court :p

think someone has already pointed this out but WE HAVE NOT reduced any players wages, we let go Anto Murphy,Alan Moore etc. to bring DOWN the wage bill

[finnpark]

think someone has already pointed this out but WE HAVE NOT reduced any players wages, we let go Anto Murphy,Alan Moore etc. to bring DOWN the wage bill

I beleive you, millions wouldn't ;)

[Rovers1]

I beleive you, millions wouldn't ;)

im pretty sure it would have been well documented on this and other forums if any SRFC player had taken a wage cut:confused:

[finnpark]

im pretty sure it would have been well documented on this and other forums if any SRFC player had taken a wage cut:confused:

Well I don't understand why teams go public about wage cuts :confused:

They should be kept quiet between the players and the club.

[Rovers1]

Well I don't understand why teams go public about wage cuts :confused:

They should be kept quiet between the players and the club.

Rovers released/sold/got rid/transferred/or however you like to put it Murphy,Moore,McKenzie etc. and did not ask any players to take wage cuts (none of what anyone has heard,because im 107% sure it would be up on this website)

i really dont know what your on about when you say " I don't understand why teams go public about wage cuts :confused:" unless your back talking about your own club.

[Mr A]

You can't keep it quiet once Patsy McGowan finds out and gets a chance to mouth off one more time.

[HarpsinDublin]

We need a youth system similar to what UCD have. Perhaps the club could forge links with LYIT and Magee to try to attract players from outside the region


The club are currently running four teams. The first team, A team, U20's and a youth side. How many more do you need?

Both Ballybofey United and Cappry Rovers run underage teams, are there really enough young players in Ballybofey to get an underage set up from Under 7's upwards to the youth team?

As for LYIT and/or Magee a lot of our former U21 and A team players have played for one or the other. The problem is not enough players coming through from the U21 or A team with the quality needed for the League of Ireland.

[HarpsinDublin]

Thank you.

Mr Finnpark, even without this latest setback occurring, I would be very surprised if Paul was your manager next year. Trying to negotiate things like free coach travel every week to keep the club afloat are bound to have an adverse affect on the stress levels of a very committed and already highly stressed man!

As for Derry over performing etc, so what?

Yes it is very stressful cutting the training ground grass every day! Hegarty has questions to answer too. Big wages for Beckett, Kevin Ramsey = no goals from either and both have spent a large time on the injury list. He signed Austin Friel in the transfer window, wont play him even when we only have one striker fit or available due to suspensions.

No doubting Paul's committment but some of his decisions have been questionable. If we go part-time next year will he want to continue?

[rambler14]

Should we start a pool on who cuts wages next and goes on the verge of going out of business???

I call Drogheda!

[robertob]

If you can just collect €1 from everyone in Germany we will get €82,400,996 (you can keep the 996 for yourself).


Ya ok I will try it - but I can't give a promise! :D

But seriously, I can't understand why so many clubs has big financial problems. I mean, where is the problem to spend only so much money wich they really have? If I haven't money I can't buy that what I want or I can't spend more as I have. That's life.

[blackholesun]

Attendences were definitely lied about that season, that's one thing for certain. I thought you knew that.

At the Alumni Dinner in 07 the club had a 5 year plan included in an information booklet. I presume this was the same that was presented to the IAG. I can't remember the full details but included in it was winning the Premier Division within five years.

Paper never refused ink!

Of course UCD were not the only club who painted the rosiest possible picture at that time ... but I was amazed the FAI didnt take the chance then to send them packing off to the first division.

I remember reading some stuff in the papers from a UCD official at the time that with the move to the Belfield Bowl they were hoping to link up wth locals schools and get 100s of local teenagers along to the games.

UCDs model of developing / attracting players has obviously worked well for them on the pitch but aside from this they are no asset to the league.

bhs

[Rovers1]

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?

[finnpark]

The club are currently running four teams. The first team, A team, U20's and a youth side. How many more do you need?

Under 7 the whole way up including a new Primary and Secondary school leagues and proper coaching that would include social coaching such as discussing the influence of booze, psychology and Gym training programme information. Starting at 18 or 19 is a waste of time unless they look outside the NW like UCD do - a national scouting system. Even GAA clubs start at U-10 and they are amateur.



Both Ballybofey United and Cappry Rovers run underage teams, are there really enough young players in Ballybofey to get an underage set up from Under 7's upwards to the youth team?

I think that a wider catchment area than Ballybofey is needed :rolleyes: Most of the young lads around there are ****heads by the age of 18



As for LYIT and/or Magee a lot of our former U21 and A team players have played for one or the other. The problem is not enough players coming through from the U21 or A team with the quality needed for the League of Ireland.

Thats true alright. Too much drinking and not enough professional training.

3 things a club like Harps should have in place:

1. Youth System - County wide in all major population areas from under 7s upwards including schools and a summer academy for different age groups.

2. A decent stadium

3. Intense local PR and marketing

4. A professioanal team

The board decided to go from point 0 to point 4 skipping the most important parts that any club should have.

[HarpsinDublin]

Under 7 the whole way up including a new Primary and Secondary school leagues and proper coaching that would include social coaching such as discussing the influence of booze, psychology and Gym training programme information. Starting at 18 or 19 is a waste of time unless they look outside the NW like UCD do - a national scouting system. Even GAA clubs start at U-10 and they are amateur.


I think that a wider catchment area than Ballybofey is needed :rolleyes: Most of the young lads around there are ****heads by the age of 18



Thats true alright. Too much drinking and not enough professional training.

3 things a club like Harps should have in place:

1. Youth System - County wide in all major population areas from under 7s upwards including schools and a summer academy for different age groups.

2. A decent stadium

3. Intense local PR and marketing

4. A professioanal team

The board decided to go from point 0 to point 4 skipping the most important parts that any club should have.

1. While I take your points in relation to the youth system, it will never happen in Donegal. Too many clubs will not allow their underage players into a Finn Harps set up. There are many reasons why, not the least why should they be providing players for a Finn Harps underage side that will be competing against their own underage side. The Harps youth team that currently competes in the Donegal Youth League has to be made up from players not currently attached to the current sides in that League and also from areas not known (in Donegal) for their soccer prowess. Unfortunately only UCD in the current League of Ireland can offer their players scholarships/the opportunity to continue their studies whilst playing top level soccer.

2. Hopefully this is on the way in the not too distant future. However, a winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

3. Intense PR and marketing. The Harps PRO for last season was given an award by the Soccer Writers Association of Ireland. We have upwards of seven or eight newspapers in Donegal that give Harps top billing in their soccer section. A winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

4. A professional team. Not sustainable in the current format as has been evidenced this season. You cannot turn players overnight into professional players. This should be done on a gradual basis phasing it in over four to five seasons, starting with the younger players in the squad. Unfortunately time is not something most clubs are prepared to invest in their pursuit of success.

[brianw82]

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?

It is explained about 5 times in the "This is not right!" thread.

[DmanDmythDledge]

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?
Not much. Biggest thing they do is provide ground/training facilities but I suppose they do "own" the club. All explained here:

http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=1029036&postcount=61


Under 7 the whole way up including a new Primary and Secondary school leagues and proper coaching that would include social coaching such as discussing the influence of booze, psychology and Gym training programme information. Starting at 18 or 19 is a waste of time unless they look outside the NW like UCD do - a national scouting system. Even GAA clubs start at U-10 and they are amateur.
We don't have an U7 team. We don't have a national scouting system. So I fail to see how any of that would be like UCD.;)

[Student Mullet]

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?
At the start of each season the students pay a registration fee and (I think) 25 euros of that goes to the sports' dept. The profit from renting out pitches and halls is added and the money is divided out between the sports clubs in rough proportion to the clubs' membership.
Soccer is the biggest club in UCD and (last time I heard) gets the biggest share. It'd be roughly enough money to cover the running of the 2 intervarsity teams.

[OneRedArmy]

Going back to Harps, can't imagine the players are too happy that the club, rather than reduce wages gradually earlier (as presumably they knew trouble was around the corner), waited until the club was in a safe position and then cut the wages by half.

[placid casual]

No, thank you. My primary social function is as an archivist of human idiocy and the likes of you make my job a lot easier.

it must be a bit.ch not having a club to follow and having to look elsewhere for your "primary social function ".;)

[Mr A]

The logical thing to happen here is for the Government to step in and bail all the clubs in bother out.

After all, we may have been a bit optimistic, but not half as bloody reckless as the banks!

[Rovers Maniac]

Going back to Harps, can't imagine the players are too happy that the club, rather than reduce wages gradually earlier (as presumably they knew trouble was around the corner), waited until the club was in a safe position and then cut the wages by half.

Thats quite true to be fair there gates seemed to be poor enough most weeks. I am sure whoever was is in charge could see things were not adding up and coud have acted earlier than this.

[dcfcsteve]

The only thing you guys can win is your local derby and the league cup. You are still as far away as ever from winning the league. Over performing as it is I would say

Put the handbag down, ya big touchy girl ya !

I'm loving the intense irony of a Harps fan abusing fans of pretty much any club over their levels of success. Need I point out that the last time you won anything of note was 34 years ago. In the meantime, we've won two leagues, 4 FAI cups and 9 League Cups. And we gave you an 11 year head-start....

Harps fans will berate me for saying this, but the only town in Donegal capable of sustaining a senior level football club in the increasingly expensive world of Irish football is Letterkenny. Nowhere else has anywhere near the population. Saying that Letterkenny is only up the road from Ballybofey is irrelevant - it still isn't Letterkenny.

Plus, Letterkenny versus City would be a derby with a bit of bite - not the mock rivalry that we currently have.

[Mr A]

And how do we pay for a stadium there Steve? Ballybofey is more or less central to our support which comes from all over Donegal and West Tyrone. We have an essentially free stadium on the way that will be one of the best in the country- would moving to Letterkenny really make enough difference to justify the massive extra expense?

Derry City's location is far from perfect as well- why don't you guys just move somewhere better?

[dcfcsteve]

And how do we pay for a stadium there Steve? Ballybofey is more or less central to our support which comes from all over Donegal and West Tyrone. We have an essentially free stadium on the way that will be one of the best in the country- would moving to Letterkenny really make enough difference to justify the massive extra expense?

Derry City's location is far from perfect as well- why don't you guys just move somewhere better?

Plumbing the depths of absurdity n your arguement there Mr A.

Derry is the fourth biggest city on the island, with a population well capable of supporting a full-time senior football club. The 3 bigger cities on the island all already have senior clubs- with tweo of thoise cities having too many already. Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:

As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.

No matter what way you look at it, Ballybofey is just too small to support a top-level senior team. Saying its central for your support base is meaningless, and as much use as having Glasgow Rangers in the Isle of Man...:rolleyes:

It's not by coincidence that there is a clear and consistent correlation in football throughout the world between larger population centres and the presence and success of football clubs there.

[Dodge]

Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:
You just don't get sarcasm steve, do you?


As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.
Simple as that. Sure that club would love to be taken over. Probably get the local businesses on baord straightaway too. if the other stadium is nearly built, surely you just move it brick by brick?

Think of the possibilities Donegalwegians!?

[dcfc1928]

I heard that argument before that Harps should have moved to Letterkenny and it's a reasonable argument in terms of population and being the only senior soccer club in the county and it represents the county.... but work has now started on their new stadium and that argument is a mute point now because of that.

[Mr A]

So you're perfectly happy with DCFC's current location, and don't feel the club should look to move to another part of they city then?

Or could it be that the only realistic prospect of getting the facilities you need is more or less where you're at already?

[lofty9]

I heard that argument before that Harps should have moved to Letterkenny and it's a reasonable argument in terms of population and being the only senior soccer club in the county and it represents the county.... but work has now started on their new stadium and that argument is a mute point now because of that.

That was Dermot Keely's wish during his tenure there. AFAiK he did a lot of ground work on it with communities and business' in Donegal.

[Rovers Maniac]

Plumbing the depths of absurdity n your arguement there Mr A.

Derry is the fourth biggest city on the island, with a population well capable of supporting a full-time senior football club. The 3 bigger cities on the island all already have senior clubs- with tweo of thoise cities having too many already. Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:

As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.

No matter what way you look at it, Ballybofey is just too small to support a top-level senior team. Saying its central for your support base is meaningless, and as much use as having Glasgow Rangers in the Isle of Man...:rolleyes:

It's not by coincidence that there is a clear and consistent correlation in football throughout the world between larger population centres and the presence and success of football clubs there.

Oh god i am actually cringed for you when i read this :D

[HarpsinDublin]

That was Dermot Keely's wish during his tenure there. AFAiK he did a lot of ground work on it with communities and business' in Donegal.

That is not correct. Keely was involved with a consortium that tried to take over the club in 1996. One of the reasons the club wouldnt allow it was that the consortium wouldnt give certain guarantees one of which was that it wouldnt move the club to Letterkenny. I know Keely hadnt done any work with the community and some businesses in the Letterkenny area are already supporters of Harps.

If there are so many League of Ireland supporters waiting in Letterkenny for a club to support why do Letterkenny Rovers play in front of less than 100 people week in week out? and yes before you ask I am originally from Letterkenny.

[carrickharp]

but the only town in Donegal capable of sustaining a senior level football club in the increasingly expensive world of Irish football is Letterkenny.
I for one would not support the club if it moved to Letterkenny, not all Harps fans are from Ballybofey you know I live about 40 miles away in the south west of the county and there are plenty of fans in the area the same goes for most of the county. Harps have the problem most clubs have regarding support, if we were up near the top of the league sure we would be covering our costs the fan base is there it's just a pity they would not show up more often.

[carrickharp]

Letterkenny Rovers play in front of less than 100 people week in week out
That figure includes, club officials, players, subs, referee and linesmen!

[Sheridan]

I didn't get Harps going full-time at all. The teams at the top of the league need to be full-time to compete in Europe (and we're never going to have an all part-time league again; someone will always try to steal a march if others waver) because they're going to encounter teams from a different, ball-retaining football culture and couldn't match them otherwise.

But there aren't enough full-time-quality players in the bottom half of the league to justify the expenditure for the likes of Harps. Paying mediocre players a full-time wage won't make them any better, and the benefits of fitness and cohesion are too marginal to be of any consequence in a league where everyone plays basically the same style of football.