This is not right!

[Saint_Charlie]

You've lost me aswell soccerc. As far as I can see we ARE fooked if Kelleher pulls out.

Hope i'm wrong tho.

[srfc1928]

Ok Im a UCD fan and it looks like were going down after tonights result. Im sure most of ye will be delighted to see us go.

But this Cork situation really has me p***ed off, and a few other clubs this year as well.

UCD have never reneged on paying players/staff wages. We are living within our means and we havent had to be bailed out by last minute investors and pleading to supporters (Sligo). We have not gone into receivership.

If we had done a Cork and spent mad money that we didnt have to buy better players, go into receivership, renege on wages, make drastic cuts of staff/players etc..and scrape a recovery plan before the end of the season we may have stayed up.

How fair is it that we do things correctly and Cork and others 'cheat' buy buying players they can't afford, they stay up and get bailed out and we go down?

So many clubs this year have had drastic finanical problems. If you can't run a business properly, like so many clubs have proved this year then you shouldnt be allowed in the league. It should be the FIRST priority.

Rant over.
I dont get your point in regards to us,
we are a community based club who have asked the community to raise funds to keep the club afloat. Our players are paid on time, everytime and our debts have been greatly reduced and are very small in comparison to others. I dont think we have gained advantage over clubs because our people have come together as a unit and sorted our own problems out and kept an 80 year old club still going strong

[Red Star]

Ok Im a UCD fan and it looks like were going down after tonights result. Im sure most of ye will be delighted to see us go.


UCD have never reneged on paying players/staff wages. We are living within our means and we havent had to be bailed out by last minute investors and pleading to supporters (Sligo). We have not gone into receivership.

.

Nether have Sligo Rovers all players have always been played on time and that’s something we are proud off

SRFC are a community club who have never been in receivership. Ok now and again the club will rely on the community for help to keep our club alive we don’t depend on a collage, a money man or a council to keep our club going. We might never be a big club but will never die and we will keep the red flag flying

Enjoy the graveyard:cool:

[dancinpants]

all players have always been played on time and that’s something we are proud off

S'pose ye have to have something to be proud of - having eleven men on the pitch by 7.45 :confused:


Ok now and again the club will rely on the community for help to keep our club alive we don’t depend on a collage to keep our club going.

Could be worth it depending on the artist.

Really though, don't drink and post.

Agree with SLK though. The snidey remarks aimed at UCD are pathetic. Why do some of you despise them so much? Coz yer team can't beat them? This "add nothing to the league" argument is bu ll**** in fairness....thats not how football works.

[Poor Student]

Agree with SLK though. The snidey remarks aimed at UCD are pathetic. Why do some of you despise them so much? Coz yer team can't beat them? This "add nothing to the league" argument is bu ll**** in fairness....thats not how football works.

Personally I believe it stems from certain eL followers' insecurities about their own club and the league and their need to justify their support thereof to either barstoolers or others. UCD are a microcosm of the league and exemplify some of its major problems and shortcomings, namely a lack of support and resources. Bizarrely, fans of other clubs, who profess that one should support their local club, continually castigate and put down UCD citing odd notions like "they bring nothing to the league". As if leagues around the globe don't have clubs of varying sizes including some with attendances a minute fraction of the largest clubs in their respective countries, as if it isn't a fact of footballing life that there aren't clubs with varying resources and have to temper their ambitions accordingly. I'm all for a bit of banter but the scorn poured on us is strange considering the context all our clubs operate in.

[dublinred]

Ok Im a UCD fan and it looks like were going down after tonights result. Im sure most of ye will be delighted to see us go.

But this Cork situation really has me p***ed off, and a few other clubs this year as well.

UCD have never reneged on paying players/staff wages. We are living within our means and we havent had to be bailed out by last minute investors and pleading to supporters (Sligo). We have not gone into receivership.

If we had done a Cork and spent mad money that we didnt have to buy better players, go into receivership, renege on wages, make drastic cuts of staff/players etc..and scrape a recovery plan before the end of the season we may have stayed up.

How fair is it that we do things correctly and Cork and others 'cheat' buy buying players they can't afford, they stay up and get bailed out and we go down?

So many clubs this year have had drastic finanical problems. If you can't run a business properly, like so many clubs have proved this year then you shouldnt be allowed in the league. It should be the FIRST priority.

Rant over.

End of the day if your can't finish above Finn Harps you deserve the first division,there must be serious deficencies in the coaching system if the cream of Irelands talent on scholarships are struggling that badly.

[pete]

Firstly there is no evidence Cork City will fail to match the 65% wage rule yet as it is judged over a full season. If we break that I expect we will be punished. The same rule applies if we fail to pay our players at the end of the season.

We are currently in Examinership which we have already been punished for which probably sees us out of Europe next season through the league.

It is ironic that UCD complain about hand outs. How can they run a semi pro team on roughly 500 fans a game? You must be receiving indirect support from the University. You pays for the admin salaries? Who pays for the sports scholarships? What is your budget for the season & how do you run a club when first division sides can't pay players on similar budget?

:confused:

[jebus]

End of the day if your can't finish above Finn Harps you deserve the first division

Finally someone tells it like it is :D

[Poor Student]

Who pays for the sports scholarships?

Would you actually read one of my earlier posts in the thread? This has been outlined ad nauseum by UCD fans before both here and on the CCFC forum.

[dortie]

The problem is my old age, there are Dara's and Daragh's then Darragh's and that's before we go to Darach. I know people who each use different versions.

BTW, I still have that flawed* dissertation of yours LOL

Dont forget Dáire.....

My sons name;)

[Poor Student]

It is ironic that UCD complain about hand outs. How can they run a semi pro team on roughly 500 fans a game? You must be receiving indirect support from the University. You pays for the admin salaries? Who pays for the sports scholarships? What is your budget for the season & how do you run a club when first division sides can't pay players on similar budget?

:confused:

Feck it, I'll answer anyway. UCD AFC only have one full time admin staff, our commercial manager. He also handles the admin duties for the collegiate side etc. so his salary is split which the college. We had a full time CPO but since he and the club parted company we've elected to see out the season with a part time one. The club is run by a voluntary committee with a few local businessmen among its members, people who have been involved in the club long term.

The scholarships are paid for from the clubs own budget which it raises. The clubs raises its budget in many of the traditional ways other clubs do:

Gate receipts: Yes, there are some, particularly from the ties against Dublin opponents plus lots of cup matches in recent seasons.

Prize money: We've had a few good cup runs recently and we've also received fair play prize money plus we've consistently performed at U-21 level.

Sponsorship: The club and its superleague have been sponsored by Budweiser for over a decade and there's been a good sponsorship deal in place with AIB for the main stand in both our grounds, not to mention advertising hoardings etc.

There are other fundraisers like our annual alumni dinner, superleague subsidies and benefactor donations like your man Tommy Allen who throws money at a dozen different clubs if you listen to him. I think Pineapple told me before that there's an annual stipend from the college that represents under 10% of our budget but someone else could clarify that. By and large though its the activities of our committee that raise us the money.

UCD only spend what they have, we pay small wages and have small overheads. You should ask yourself why first division clubs can't pay wages on a similar budget when UCD can? Monaghan United operate a similar tight ship on an even smaller scale.

If you read about university funding in Ireland and see the hole in UCD's budget you'd understand there's no way they're bankrolling a football club. There's a massive distance between the college's administrators and the club. They couldn't care less and that spans right across the college down to the students union. In spite of the waffle spouted here, UCD is very much a club supported by local people rather than people affiliated with the college.

[Juanace]

Nether have Sligo Rovers all players have always been played on time and that’s something we are proud off



I'm delighted that your so proud that when you sign a contract with a player you've been able to pay them:rolleyes:. Thats not something to be proud of, that should be the most basic element of any business in the world.



I dont get your point in regards to us,
we are a community based club who have asked the community to raise funds to keep the club afloat. Our players are paid on time, everytime and our debts have been greatly reduced and are very small in comparison to others. I dont think we have gained advantage over clubs because our people have come together as a unit and sorted our own problems out and kept an 80 year old club still going strong


My point about Sligo was only about the fans having to bail out the club because of their shocking mismangement..iv nothing but admiration for the Sligo fans, wish we had a similar fanbase at UCD.

[micls]

I can understand teh frustration of UCD fans, but feel its all a bit premature.

We have been punished for entering examinership. During examinership if anything else comes out Id expect us to be punished for that. If at the end of the season we have broken teh wage cap for the year we will be punished for doing so, but none of this has come to pass yet so whats with the rant?

it's not our fault that there are not clear enough rules in regard punishments. If it was l;aid out that breaking the wage cap over the year was a 20point deduction or automatic relegation then we'd all know where we stand and the possible consequences. but the FAI's inability to do so is not the failing of CCFC. It's as frustrating for us as anyone else.

If we havent paid up the players and creditors we will not get a license.

We have someone coming in to take over the club, with a fans grouping in the mix and hope to make the club a self sustaining entity. If we manage to sort ourselves out before he end of the season, pay off our debts and get under the wage cap then we deserve no more punishment that the one for going into examinership. If we dont we'l deserve everything we get. But again, its not us making these decisions

[Student Mullet]

I can understand the frustration of UCD fans, but feel its all a bit premature. I don't think it's premature, Cork isn't the first club to run into trouble, but I think it's misplaced. UCD isn't going down because we can't catch Cork or Pats. We're going down because we can't catch Harps or Bray.

At the end of the season this year's UCD team will have shown none of the potential it has and will deserve to be relegated. If we're saved by some other club going bust it'll be a get out of jail free card, it won't be something the team earned.

[micls]

I don't think it's premature,
He's ranting about ye going down and us staying in the premier. Given none of that is anyway certain yet then I think it is premature

[johnmayo]

As a person formerly involved with UCD Superleague a few years ago I do know that UCD AFC does not get any substantial handouts from the College and it is extremely well run finanically.

What poor student has outlined is pretty much as I remember how the club was funded when I was involved.

UCD are a selling club a bit like Wimbledon in the 90's where they would uncover a decent player they would have to sell him the following year.

Good business but hard to build for success!

A team of UCD explayers from the league at the moment would pretty much would be near top of the table.

[Poor Student]

Good point, John, that's something I forgot! Revenue generated from player sales. Off the top of my head we've sold Gary Dicker, Conor Sammon, Darren Quigley, Alan Cawley and Conan Byrne over the last few years. Although sometimes we have to fight to get paid and I'm lead to believe we haven't seen money due to us for at least one of the above.

[higgins]

Firstly there is no evidence Cork City will fail to match the 65% wage rule yet as it is judged over a full season. If we break that I expect we will be punished. The same rule applies if we fail to pay our players at the end of the season.


No evidence you are over the 65% !!! :eek:
Come on Pete! ....

The 65% rule is running through the season, it doesn't come into effect after 12 months. Through monthly accounts submitted to the FAI the 65% rule was to be in play.

I do agree with one thing actually.
IF all your creditors are to get 100% of what they are owed and your players are happy to play for you on reduced wages for a period then the 10 points deduction for going into examinership is correct and fair and you should not be punished any further.

However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).

[Student Mullet]

He's ranting about ye going down and us staying in the premier. Given none of that is anyway certain yet then I think it is premature

I don't want to get into an argument over the definition of words but we have to remember that Cork isn't the first club to run into this type of trouble in the league. Your current difficulties are following a well rehearsed path.

[razor]

However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).I would certainly prefer or all our creditors to receive 100%. failing this, whatever penalty comes our way, we'll take on the chin.
Far be it from me to go off topic but UCD impressed at times the other night, knocked it around nicely at times but had no real end product, against what was an extremely makeshift City side.

[Titan]

Its funny.It really is. This UCD team should be higher up the league regardless of what other clubs have done.

The reason they arent is down to not being able to score goals. The reason they cant score goals is that they dont have a proven goalscorer. They dont have a proven goalscorer because they couldnt and wouldnt pay the ridiculous money that the few available strikers of note were looking for.

So... Lets play a game. The game is called ''Lets pretend''.

Lets pretend that in January UCD signed two strikers. Really good strikers the 15 goal a season type. Lets pretend they paid them a grand a week. Lets pretend they banged in 20 goals between them to date. Lets pretend that left UCD sitting in mid table comfort.

Now lets pretend that because they added 2 grand a week to the wage bill that other bills arent being paid. Now lets pretend that UCD are in the mire with their creditors. Now lets pretend that the main sponsor pulls out (which they did).

Now lets pretend that the club have no money for ANYONES wages. Now lets pretend that because of this the club goes into examinership (The irish version of receivership).

Who would give a sh1t?

Thats right nobody but the 8 committee members, The 2 full time staff (used to be 3 'sniff') The 30 odd players and staff and the 300 or so supporters.

The funny thing is that what I have outlined above very nearly did happen!They nearly signed 2 very good strikers for a grand a week each.

Why didnt they?

Because the people in charge decided that having a club in the first division and living to fight another day was better than dying.

Are they right?

[Dodge]

You've lost me aswell soccerc. As far as I can see we ARE fooked if Kelleher pulls out.

Hope i'm wrong tho.
You're not. At current spending levels obviously.

The difference between Cork and Pats is that Cork were bought by an investment firm. Kelleher knows he's never going to make money from us. (Anyone remember Arkaga talking about a brand new stadium which would host concerts etc :rolleyes: )



This UCD team should be higher up the league regardless of what other clubs have done
No it shouldn't. You have some terrible, terrible players and are deservedly fighting relegation.

[Titan]

You're not. At current spending levels obviously.

The difference between Cork and Pats is that Cork were bought by an investment firm. Kelleher knows he's never going to make money from us. (Anyone remember Arkaga talking about a brand new stadium which would host concerts etc :rolleyes: )



No it shouldn't. You have some terrible, terrible players and are deservedly fighting relegation.

So having two really good strikers wouldnt have gained the team 10 points over the last 26 games?

Apart from a hiding up in Derry there havent been any hammerings its mostly been the odd goal.

[Dodge]

[/B]

So having two really good strikers wouldnt have gained the team 10 points over the last 26 games?
Possibly, not sure why you're asking me though.



Apart from a hiding up in Derry there havent been any hammerings its mostly been the odd goal.
So? How is losing 3 games 0-1 better than losing two 0-5 and winning the other 1-0?

If a team is relegated, they deserve to be. Just like the team who wins the league deserves it

[micls]

No evidence you are over the 65% !!! :eek:
Come on Pete! ....

The 65% rule is running through the season, it doesn't come into effect after 12 months. Through monthly accounts submitted to the FAI the 65% rule was to be in play.
Teh monthly reports is simply to stop things before they go too far.

The rule itself is over the course of the entire season. We have not broken it....yet



However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).

It depends on the rules the FAI have for this I suppose. Was the 10point deduction simply for entering examinership or for the examinership process? I dont know. I dont think our creditors will be getting 100% though

Again clear rules would make this a lot easier.

[Titan]

Possibly, not sure why you're asking me though.


So? How is losing 3 games 0-1 better than losing two 0-5 and winning the other 1-0?

If a team is relegated, they deserve to be. Just like the team who wins the league deserves it

I wasnt asking you! You obviously didnt read my original post on the subject which was basically saying that UCD are fecked cos they cudnt score in a house of ill repute while clutching a fist full of €50 notes. The point I was trying to make was that with a couple of decent strikers maybe 2 out of three of those 0-1 results might have been 1-1 or even 2-1.

[Dodge]

Yeah, and if Cobh had 2 quality centre halves and if Galway had 2 quality midfielders etc etc etc

The only point I was arguing is that you area better team thatn your position indicates. You're not

[Titan]

Yeah, and if Cobh had 2 quality centre halves and if Galway had 2 quality midfielders etc etc etc

The only point I was arguing is that you area better team thatn your position indicates. You're not

Agreed!

But I was making the point that if they had gambled like other clubs had they would probably be in a better position league table wise but screwed anyway.

[micls]

Now lets pretend that the club have no money for ANYONES wages. Now lets pretend that because of this the club goes into examinership (The irish version of receivership).


Then youd have lost the 10poitns anyway and still be in the relegation zone....

And examinership is not the Irish version of receivership its before receivership

[John83]

Clubs with no financial problems get to play into goals that are a foot wider and six inches taller. Would that fix it? :p
The way we've played this year, I doubt even that would have saved us. :)


It is ironic that UCD complain about hand outs. How can they run a semi pro team on roughly 500 fans a game? You must be receiving indirect support from the University. You pays for the admin salaries? Who pays for the sports scholarships? What is your budget for the season & how do you run a club when first division sides can't pay players on similar budget?
It's really not. All this has been explained before, and will be explained again.

I don't think people understand when UCD fans bitch about financial mismanagement. There's no room for us in a well run league. Not near the top anyway. Matched with slightly bigger, well run clubs with competent youth setups of their own, the margins we thrive on would be eroded.

[Titan]

Then youd have lost the 10poitns anyway and still be in the relegation zone....

And examinership is not the Irish version of receivership its before receivership

Sorry I was going by what Id heard on the radio. EDIT. I was actually mixing it up with the Irish version of administration

The bit about the 10 points is kind of my point! Damned if you do and damned if you dont!

[pineapple stu]

The reason we're going down is because we can't catch any from Harps, Bray Rovers and Shams.
I agree with this, although it's worth noting that Harps and Sligs are ahead of us because they're overspending too, so you've got the same problem lower down the league too, whereas your post consigns it to the top four.

Edit - and on reflection, I don't think you're right to say the top four would be ahead of us regardless of spending. The last time Bohs and Pat's spent sensibly (and by that I mean running up a loss equivalent to half our turnover instead of three times our turnover) was in 2006, when we finished ahead of both. And we both recall what Drogheda were like before Hoey started pouring money in. In fact, the only team I don't recall finishing ahead of is Cork. So while I agree with the gist of your post, I don't agree with your summary dismissal of other clubs' spending as the cause of it, at least in part.


Are we?
Your most recent accounts show a loan of E2.6m from one of Kelleher's company, so I think it is fair to say that if he goes, you're screwed. Best case is that you go back to the way you were (you can decide if that constitutes "screwed" for yourself!), worst case is you get lumped with a load of bills (PAYE arrears in particular) which you suddenly can't afford to pay.


No it shouldn't. You have some terrible, terrible players and are deservedly fighting relegation.
Harsh; I think you've not taken Titan's point fully. We've four U-21 internationals in the team, and Brian King's better than any of them, for example. We have a couple of poor players; we've no "terrible, terrible" players. But Titan's point in part was that if clubs were spending sensible amounts, players would be asking for sensible wages and so we'd be able to afford a forward who would have us a few extra points. That's all. It's like the way Dublin City were able to outbid us for players, creating false wage inflation even at our level. We're clearly deservedly fighting relegation, but if the sillier clubs weren't bankrupting themselves signing forwards so that we can't afford them, we'd be better off.

As it happens, we'll probably go down, regroup, come top four next year, come up the year after and be back annoying people soon enough. Just like the last time. :)

[Dodge]

But Titan's point in part was that if clubs were spending sensible amounts, players would be asking for sensible wages and so we'd be able to afford a forward who would have us a few extra points
And as I said earlier then Cobh could get better defenders, Galway could get better midfielders, Harps could get a keeper etc etc.

And this is UCD is the worst I've ever seen. You are way more than a striker away from being decent

[pineapple stu]

Not in a sensible league, they couldn't. They'd have cut back so much they'd lose their best players rather than sign new ones, which is the point.

We're an attacking unit away from being a decent team - two strikers and two attacking mids. At this stage (4 points in 15 games), you can clearly see morale is at zero, which really doesn't help.

Obviously, on the pitch, we are where we deserve to be. But we don't have "some terrible terrible players".

[Dodge]

I disagree. I couldn't name names and I'm basing it solely on performances against Pats but several players were not premnier division standard. Both full backs were abysmal, and not a single midfielder could tackle.

[pineapple stu]

The left back hasn't played since; we often throw players a bit too early into the first team. The right back has been around for years and is a solid player. Kinger and McFaul will throw in plenty of tackles.

What you're probably observing though is the fact that as clubs like youz (and Bohs and Drogheda and Cork) double your budget by losing E2m a year, we simply can't keep up and so the gap gets bigger between us. In that case, you're not observing the worst ever UCD team, you're observing the biggest gap ever between us. That's because you're spending millions you don't have, it's not because our team has suddenly gotten worse.

[Dodge]

Get off the soapbox, wll you? This current Pats team isn't fit to lace the boots of previous championship winning teams. Our standard has not increased significantly and IMO, UCD have got poorer (pun very much intended).

You can console yourself with the fact you may be doing OK budget wise, but regardless of money, you have plenty of players who aren't premier division quality and thats reflected in your league position

[pineapple stu]

This current Pats team isn't fit to lace the boots of previous championship winning teams.
We'll have to agree to disagree so.

[Mr A]

We'll have to agree to disagree so.

That is NOT the foot.ie way!

[Dodge]

And I don't agree to it...

[pineapple stu]

We'll have to agree to disagree so. :)

I don't think you can say a team who've beaten Elfsborg don't deserve to lace the boots of one who lost 10-0 to Zimbru, for example. Bit of nostalgic improvement there, I think.

[jinxy lilywhite]

I must say I do agree and sympathise with UCD supporters and their plight for survival. Its the same old story in this league where clubs try to do things right and end up getting ****ed on.
Whatever division UCD are in next season they will be better off than most clubs. Say if you are relegated along with Galway and Cobh, UCD will still have their financial structures in place and will also be better placed than 3 of the 4 remaining in the first.
If clubs have breached the 65% rule then sanctions must be enforced. An example needs to be made of those who constantly flout the rules.

[Dodge]

I don't think you can say a team who've beaten Elfsborg don't deserve to lace the boots of one who lost 10-0 to Zimbru, for example. Bit of nostalgic improvement there, I think.

Summer football, don't you see? :p And as ridiculous as this sounds, we should've beena couple of goals up before Zimbru scored, and then just fell to pieces.

In all probablility we're going to lose both legs to hertha. I'd say they're a similar level to the Celtic side we drew with in Glasgow (before losing at home).

[Bald Student]

Harps and Sligs are ahead of us because they're overspending too, so you've got the same problem lower down the league tooThe difference is that Harps' and Sligo's debts are within their ability to trade out of them. Sligo needed 130k and got most of that already from their supporters. If they want to run at a loss for a while and them pay off that loss I don't really have a problem. UCD did similar when we went down. We ran at a loss for a season to keep most of the premier division squad together and the gamble paid off.

The big problem for me is that the 4 big spending clubs are running up bills that they have absolutely no chance of repaying from normal footballing income. This is a big problem for the league but it's not related to UCD getting a well earned relegation.

[Dodge]

This is a big problem for the league

Its only a problem if backers pull out. Most leagues in the world are based around clubs with outside investment

[Bald Student]

Its only a problem if backers pull out. Most leagues in the world are based around clubs with outside investment

That's true and the backers pull out often enough for it to be a big problem in this league.

[Dodge]

What backers have pulled out? I can only remember Arkaga and the Kilcoynes pulling out? Maybe the Donnollys at Shels but that was a different situation

[Bald Student]

What backers have pulled out? I can only remember Arkaga and the Kilcoynes pulling out? Maybe the Donnollys at Shels but that was a different situation

Dublin City and the property developers hanging around Tallaght (McNamara?) are another 2. Looking forward I wouldn't count on The Bohs getting much money from Liam Carrol and the owners of Drogs have been talking about pulling the plug.

[Dodge]

Well Dublin City didn't have any outside backers they were basically a pet project. Closer to Kilkenny or Wexford than Bohs or Cork.

Rovers weren't buggered by outsiders over Tallaght they (maguire et al) ballsed it up from start to finish. lack of money was their problem rather than anyone pulling out (McNamara was the guy who brought them to the RDS)

Bohs would be a land deal that ****ed them over, rather than a backer pulling out.

Drogheda and Pats, AFAIK, are the only one who would be in real danger

[ndrog]

FFS ucd fan if your gonna come out with your usual nonsense at least get your facts right :mad: vincent hoey has been around for a long time and didnt just start pumping money into DUFC , hes a life long supporter and has done more than anyone for the club .He brought in investors and is doing everything in his power to keep the club alive and hopefully prospering .But you just dont wanna hear it do you :confused: Dont compare him to some money grabbing investor who dosent give a toss as he cares more than anyone i know about his local club .Its a pity theres nobody who gives a toss about your poxy little school team and the vast majority of your posts are about other clubs and there investors and how we are all fcuked .GET A LIFE :mad: