Rugby Union 2008

[joeSoap]

No...not at all....but now that you mention it...:D

[joeSoap]

Sale 23-18 Munster.

Leinster 30-9 Wasps.

Harlequins 35-6 Ulster

Connacht 12-25 London Irish

I'm predicting a bleak weekend for Irish sides with the exception of Leinster. Munster have been winning games in a flattering style lately, and I believe they won't get away with this on Saturday. Sale have the bit between their teeth, are in decent form as last weeks result proves, and there is the revenge factor. I hope I'm wrong, particularly as I've slated the English Premiership lately, but I have a sneaky feeling for Sale.

Leinster should be able to develop upon lat weeks morale booster, and Wasps won't like coming to the RDS. I predict a comprehensive Leinster victory.

Ulster are pure muck and I'm not gonna even try and talk about them.

Connacht face their biggest test yet. This London Irish team nearly got to the Heineken Final last year and are playing good rugby at home this season. If they re-produce that into their away form, I cant see them beaten by Connacht.

[ifk101]

Hats off to Munster today.

[tetsujin1979]

Munster came back and showed character when they needed it, O'Gara was robbed for the penalty that hit the top of the post.
When Sale drew level, I genuinely feared the worst. They were in the ascendancy, had far more territory and possession, but Munster did what Munster do, dug in, started winning the ball and building from a strong forward line. Mafi being sent to the sin bin could have spelt disaster, a fantastic interception late on to regain possession meant the game finished with a deserved win.
Auvergne away will be another test, in what is already a tight group. For me, the bonus point loss in France last year was one of the defining moments of the competition, another result like that and I wouldn't complain.

[shakermaker1982]

two awesome performances by Leinster and Munster this weekend. Both games were edge of the seat encounters. Things are looking up for our national side if these guys can keep the momentum going.

[hula4]

i have to say that it struck me today that munster never really had to get out of third gear. they dominated 75% at least of the game

i know sale had their 15 minutes after half time but every team gets their spells. after that munster rallied very well and closed the game out

i thought it was a throughly competant performance and they were by far the better side.

nice to see a bit of a return to the old boot, bollock and bite. im all for running rugby but last week they tried running without ever really having "fronted up" first. as the old adage goes forwards win games, backs by how much

[joeSoap]

Sale 23-18 Munster.

Leinster 30-9 Wasps.

Harlequins 35-6 Ulster

Connacht 12-25 London Irish

I'm predicting a bleak weekend for Irish sides with the exception of Leinster. Munster have been winning games in a flattering style lately, and I believe they won't get away with this on Saturday. Sale have the bit between their teeth, are in decent form as last weeks result proves, and there is the revenge factor. I hope I'm wrong, particularly as I've slated the English Premiership lately, but I have a sneaky feeling for Sale.

Leinster should be able to develop upon lat weeks morale booster, and Wasps won't like coming to the RDS. I predict a comprehensive Leinster victory.

Ulster are pure muck and I'm not gonna even try and talk about them.

Connacht face their biggest test yet. This London Irish team nearly got to the Heineken Final last year and are playing good rugby at home this season. If they re-produce that into their away form, I cant see them beaten by Connacht.

3 out of 4 ain't too bad, and boy am I glad to be wrong with the Munster prediction. That was one of the most physical games I have seen in a long long time. Super battling performance.

[pete]

Sale v Munster was the best game of the weekend as I felt both teams had their periods & overall standard was very high & very physical.

[Dodge]

Sale v Munster was the best game of the weekend as I felt both teams had their periods & overall standard was very high & very physical.

Bunch of girls

[joeSoap]

Autumn Internationals start at the weekend with Thomond Park hosting Ireland v Canada. Should be a rout.

Congratulations to Keith Earls, who will make his debut at full-back in this game, should he stay injury free between now and Saturday. (Or so I have been reliably informed).

[joeSoap]

I believe Tony Buckley is in for Hayes, with Shane Jennings and Steven Ferris getting starts in the backrow. Interesting. I've been told that the team is as follows:

Earls; Kearney, O'Driscoll, Fitzgerald, Bowe; O'Gara, Reddan; Horan, Flannery, Buckley; O'Callaghan, O'Connell; Ferris, Jennings, Heaslip.

9 subs named, to be whittled down to 7.

If this is the team, its a great backline, one that would damage any defence when on song. I'd be worried about Buckley, and Ferris and Jennings, but its only Canada, and if they can't hack it against them, then what chance do they have against anyone decent?

[Aberdonian Stu]

Interest XV, save for Earls it's what would be expected for the bigger tests in the backs but it's a fairly experimental pack.

[joeSoap]

I'm wondering if he's checking out Jennings with a view to the All Blacks next week. We will need a groundhog 7 to compete with McCaw or else its goodnight Irene. Since we shamelessly cast Keith Gleeson into early retirement, Jennings is the only thing we have near to this description.

Buckley too is a big call. I don't think he's good enough. However, the experts argue that he's more advanced at this stage of his career than The Bull was, so who am I to argue?

We're taking a chance with Earls at full-back too, but as I said earlier, it's Canada....expect Girv to be back against the Blacks.

[Schumi]

I'm wondering if he's checking out Jennings with a view to the All Blacks next week. We will need a groundhog 7 to compete with McCaw or else its goodnight Irene. Since we shamelessly cast Keith Gleeson into early retirement, Jennings is the only thing we have near to this description.

Buckley too is a big call. I don't think he's good enough. However, the experts argue that he's more advanced at this stage of his career than The Bull was, so who am I to argue?

We're taking a chance with Earls at full-back too, but as I said earlier, it's Canada....expect Girv to be back against the Blacks.Agree with most of that although I think Horgan might come in for Earls with Kearney at full back.

[OneRedArmy]

Broadly on the money but a few strange ones.

Buckley - not good enough for Munster but good enough for Ireland?

Earls - he's not a fullback, why continue to try to make him into one? We know what O'Driscoll can do and its only Canada ffs, put Earls in the centre!

Fully agree with Jennings at 7. Wallace is a fantastic player with great vision and abililty on the ball, but he ain't a 7 (or a 6) and if he wants in the team he's going to have to displace Heaslip at 8 (assuming that Quinlan's day is passed, which is a shame). The ELVs have reinforced the need for a groundhog as there is so little protection for ball on the ground now.

Ferris also needs to put up or shut up. Its time to deliver the potential we keep hearing he has.

[joeSoap]

I think our best backrow unit would be Wallace at 8, Leamy or Quinlan at 6 with a Jennings type at 7 although I'm not at all convinced about Jennings. For me Keith Gleeson was a superb 7, and a far better option than Jennings, yet we let him retire early and go home. Heaslip is a fine footballer, and will be our number 8 for a long time, but in a few seasons I believe. Wallace at the momment would be a dynamic ball carrying 8, is a huge tackler and has pace. All the attributes needed.

[OneRedArmy]

Based on performances over the last year Wallace doesn't even come close to Heaslip's physicality or defensive play. He doesn't need a few years, he's good enough now.

[joeSoap]

Can't agree with that at the moment. Right now, David Wallace is the better all round footballer. He is faster, more dynamic a ball carrier and as big a tackler. But I agree Heaslip is the future in this position. Right now, Wallace would be my number 8, thats all I'm saying.

[elroy]

If anyone has spare tickets for NZ game, please pm me. Only interested if selling for face value. Thanks

[OneRedArmy]

Anybody else freeze their balls off in Limerick this evening?

Not a huge amount to talk about, did the job that was required.

Stadium is wonderful and a credit to the Munster branch, embarrassing that soccer couldn't come up with anything close to it. Good to see a game outside Dublin, slightly annoyed as a 10 year ticket holder I had to schlep across the country for an evening kick off, but better than having it in an empty Croker. Also, while I'm bitching, the Munster fans constant bias for their own sticks in my craw. They wore their Munster jersies, cheered for their own (embarassingly so when the teams were announced) but most annoyingly (at least around me) berated the non-Munster players repeatedly. It wouldn't be so bad except Limerick people have spent 40 years complaining about how they have been under-represented at international level.

Anyway, hard to make anything of the game as Canada were **** poor, yet another example of a nation that have been bypassed by professionalism and hung out to dry by the IRB.

O'Driscoll was muck (who cares if he has a big game next week?) and we realised how much we rely on O'Gara. His kicking in particular was sublime in horrendous conditions.

But by and large Kidney's gambles came off, Earls was excellent at full back, Ferris very good (although MoTM?!). Jennings was effective without being brilliant (very worried about next week as we really didn't protect the ruck well or indeed recycle with any real speed, which has been our achilles heel over the last few years). Fitzgerald I thought looked ineffective and lightweight but he needs a few games under his belt to find his feet.

As well as prop (why didn't someone else get a run-out, what do we learn by bringing Hayes on other than his health is crucial to our success?), what really worries me is scrum half. Not sure why Stringer was in the squad, surely O'Leary should've got a run out as I'm still not convinced about Redden. He's not world class, loiters too much at the breakdown and will be found out by teams with a mobile backrow and a good counter-rucking game (ie AB's).

I think we've half a chance of beating the All Blacks but either we need to have a stormer and/or they need to under-perform badly.

[pete]

Only watched it on TV and was a horrible horrible game mainly as Canada were **** poor. Earls justified his selection.

Amazing how far Stringer has dropped. His strength was his accurate fast passing which is now gone - there was a 1 minute spell where he threw 3 passes into the ground out of the ruck & the next one almost over Buckleys head. :rolleyes:

The ELVs have messed up the game. Encourages aimless kicking & removes the skill of attacking & defending rolling mauls.

[tetsujin1979]

Any spare tickets going for the All Blacks game at croke park?

[Jofspring]

Agree about O' Driscoll, he was awful, passing was poor, tried a few kicks which where crap and he didn't do much else in the game, can't believe one of the papers gave him 8 out of 10. Thought Tommy Bowe deserved man of the match. , he was a constant threat on attack. Earls had a very solid game with some good line breaks, set up (all be with a little help from a cross field kick) and scored a try. Kearney aswell was very impressive. Luke fitzgerald was pretty non existant and i don't think the forwards really had any challenge tonight even though all played well except maybe Buckley who didn't really get himself stuck in enough. Stringer didn't do himself any favours, his passing was fairly slow last night, the canadians where on top of the recievers by the time he had made the pass.

All in all it wasn't much of a Challenge before meeting New Zealand.

[Dodge]

IRELAND team to face New Zealand at Croke Park on Saturday, 15, 5:15pm:

G Dempsey (Leinster); T Bowe (Ospreys), B O'Driscoll (Leinster, captain), L Fitzgerald (Leinster), R Kearney (Leinster); R O'Gara (Munster), T O'Leary (Munster); M Horan (Munster), R Best (Ulster), J Hayes (Munster), D O'Callaghan (Munster), P O'Connell (Munster), A Quinlan (Munster), D Wallace (Munster), J Heaslip (Leinster).

Replacements: J Flannery (Munster), T Buckley (Munster), S Ferris (Ulster), S Jennings (Leinster), E Reddan (Wasps), P Wallace (Ulster), K Earls (Munster).

[pete]

Looks like Kidney is targeting 6-9 as key physical area. O'Leary possibly has better defence than Reddan (Stringer is clearly 3rd choice). Seems harsh on Ferris but maybe Quinlan is more street smart.

[shakermaker1982]

Prefer Flannery to R Best myself. I'm happy with everything else though. Fingers crossed.

[shaneker]

Delighted with the team to face the ABs...11,12,13 and 14 look lethal going forward(assuming they click) although defensive questions remain. That said, BOD is a rock defensively and should keep that channel tight.

O'Leary is a great decision; right now he's the best Irish scrumhalf around. Its a travesty he's only had the one cap but his time is now. Doesn't hurt that the ABs will be less familiar with him than the other two options. Brave from Kidney.

Earls left out for Girv - I just come down on the side of agreeing with this one. Earls is potentially a world-beater (not building up the pressure on him at all then!) but its too much to throw him in against the ABs at this stage in such a critical position. If we were playing anyone else in the world I would say sod it and give him a go, but not New Zealand. Having him on the bench gives us a lethal option when it comes to changing the game on the hour mark. something we haven't had for a while.

As for Flannery and Best - pretty much of a muchness but Flannery has won Heineken Cups with pinpoint throwing under unbelievable pressure whereas Best has been part of the sh!test Ulster team in years. Open play and scrum, bugger all between them (Best is probably a better scrummager, but with our props its not going to make a blind bit of difference - we will be butchered in the scrum), but Fla's throwing is key to forward offensive play, and we could do with some of that.

Don't think we'll win due to force of habit, but (for the millionth time over the last few years) if not now, when? Can't wait - could be a cracker.

[OneRedArmy]

Happ enough. Start with the more solid XV and you have a great bench of impact players to use as required.

O'Leary a brave call to make but absolutely the right one IMO.

Kidney has already made more changes than Eddie managed in his whole career....

[pete]

Hopefully Kidney uses the bench as he has some good options. O'Sullivan was obsessed with not breaking up his "units" so was very very slow to make changes. Flannery, Reddan & Earls look like good impact players.

[Over the post]

Hopefully Kidney uses the bench as he has some good options. O'Sullivan was obsessed with not breaking up his "units" so was very very slow to make changes. Flannery, Reddan & Earls look like good impact players.

Buckley is also guaranteed to make an impact if he comes on.

Sign of the times when Stringer, Horgan, Murphy can't even make the bench.

[pete]

Sign of the times when Stringer, Horgan, Murphy can't even make the bench.

Whatever about Murphy the other two are washed up.

[SkStu]

anyone got any links to watch it online??

[strangeirish]

anyone got any links to watch it online??
Hoping this will work.
Click (http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=23900&part=sports)

Edit. The last one on the page seems to be the best stream. The one just above where it says 'offline'.

[SkStu]

cheers SI!!

[SkStu]

holy crap - whats happened to Carter!!!!

pretty nerve wracking all the same....

[strangeirish]

3rd time lucky I suppose. We're under a lot of pressure.

[strangeirish]

Great kick from O'Gara

[SkStu]

that penalty try is sickening - he should have just gone down on the ball.... gonna be very tough now.

Cracking game though.

[strangeirish]

Game over now...Damn!

[SkStu]

too right - hard to be too ****ed off about it though, we were just taught a harsh lesson by a great rugby nation...

[tetsujin1979]

If we had gone in 3-3 at half time, it would have made a massive difference to the game. As it was, 10-3 down with 14 men starting the second half was a big mental set back. Even if O'Gara had made it 10-6 it would have been a big boost. On the other hand, we never looked like getting a try, and against a team like New Zealand, who are going to get a big score no matter what, penalties were never going to be enough.
A harsh lesson for the new management team, the honeymoon period is over, and the test against Argentina has to be used to pick the starting XV for the 6 Nations.

[pete]

Shocking match full of aimless kicking (the ELVs are a joke) & although they were up against the ABs I still think Ireland were really poor. Unable to maintain possession for any period of time & the pack got beaten up. ABs were dominant at the breakdown.

RTE were correct in saying Fitzgerald carries more threat than O'Driscoll - can't remember the last time O'Driscoll made a break.

[OneRedArmy]

Men against boys.

We played fairly poorly but even looking at the ABs' you can tell they are a different class. Their body shapes are noticeably different to ours, even the white guys.

The number of times they powered through tackles was unbelieveable, they just have so much strength and explosiveness.

A few positives though, O'Leary was very tidy, I really hope he keeps the jersey.

There's a few lads who really just aren't quick enough for post ELV rugby, Quinlan and Dempsey definitely and I'd agree that Drico needs to start showing something soon as we can't afford to have sacred cows.

Its a difficult one as those guys will probably do ok in the 6 Nations matches but always look off the pace against the Southern hemisphere teams.

I'd be inclined to play Earls, Ferris etc. in the 6 Nations as we really need to start playing a higher tempo game.

[shakermaker1982]

Very poor performance. I'd agree with OneRedArmy 100% on the men against boys line. Fitzgerald sparkled now and again with David Wallace his usual self but the rest of them went missing. You cannot keep on missing tackles against those monsters in black because once they scent the try line you know it will be 5 more points on the scoreboard.

I was also very surprised O'Gara went for that kick from the half way line early on in the second half, were we that unsure about the lineout?

[pete]

I was also very surprised O'Gara went for that kick from the half way line early on in the second half, were we that unsure about the lineout?

ELVs have ensured that attaching lineouts not as attacking as they used to be. I think he just wanted to get some points on the board in the second half.

I think Kidney has to plan for the next world cup & start blooding a different type of player. Even at our strongest we are not good enough to win the 6 Nations.

[Student Mullet]

can't remember the last time O'Driscoll made a break.Here's a clip from his last game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UGFTLJ6-Y

and one from the game before that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDigYSyR484

[OneRedArmy]

ELVs have ensured that attaching lineouts not as attacking as they used to be. I think he just wanted to get some points on the board in the second half.Only if your primary method of attack from a lineout was a catch and maul (ie Ireland and England). Quick ball off the top is unaffected by ELVs. Unfortunately our lineout has disintegrated in the last 18 months (regardless of who is hooker) and thats probably the reason we went for the monster kick (also the fact he made the first one).


I think Kidney has to plan for the next world cup & start blooding a different type of player. Even at our strongest we are not good enough to win the 6 Nations.Agree.


Here's a clip from his last game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UGFTLJ6-Y

and one from the game before that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDigYSyR484Not really relevant to an Ireland discussion. International rugby is a higher standard. Drico isn't doing it with the ball in hand and hasn't for a while. Defensive excellence can only count for so much.

[Student Mullet]

Not really relevant to an Ireland discussion. International rugby is a higher standard. Drico isn't doing it with the ball in hand and hasn't for a while. Defensive excellence can only count for so much.That's not quite the same as saying we can't remember his last break when they're happening regularly, which is what I was answering.

I agree that he had a bad 6 nations last year but he had a very good world cup before it and southern tour after. Saying that we can't remember his last good game and should be replaced by Wallace or Shaggy is a huge exaggeration for anyone who regularly watches the sport.

[OneRedArmy]

That's not quite the same as saying we can't remember his last break when they're happening regularly, which is what I was answering.

I agree that he had a bad 6 nations last year but he had a very good world cup before it and southern tour after. Saying that we can't remember his last good game and should be replaced by Wallace or Shaggy is a huge exaggeration for anyone who regularly watches the sport.I disagree that he had a good World Cup.

As for who would replace him, Wallace or Shaggy?! :eek::confused:

Earls, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, Cave etc. are the future.

I do still think my point stands, we need a line breaker at 13. I think that can be O'Driscoll (we've all seen what be can do) but he needs to get his game together.

Brings the captaincy issue into question again as could be argued thats whats benefited his Leinster form most.

[Student Mullet]

As for who would replace him, Wallace or Shaggy?! :eek::confused:

Earls, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, Cave etc. are the future.I think we'll have to agree to disagree so. You can't replace BOD with Fitzgerald since we need 2 centers and Fitz is already filling the other spot. Earls has (I think) one senior game at center, Cave has a few more and is doing quite well but I wouldn't have him in the international team yet. I've only seen O'Connor play 10 so I won't pass judgment on him.

I'm fairly sure that if BOD or Fitz picks up an injury during the week it'll be Wallace in the center against Argentina with Shaggy an outside bet.

Edit: I've just remembered that the Ospreys have Tommy Bowe in the center as well. I've not seen him play there so I won't prejudge him.
All this is getting a little away from my original point. Whether O'Driscoll's been playing well is a subjective opinion but it is clearly not true to say that he hasn't made a line break in longer than we can remember. I can back that up with youtube clips from the world cup up to the present day if yee like.