Eircom League - Prime Time Special [Archive] - Page 2

Bohemian1890

18/09/2008, 9:27 PM

It smacked of written, directed and produced by P1.

Can't believe some of the things Reynolds from Glentoran said. There he was talking about how all the IL grounds belong in the last century when not only is his own club about to announce their new 10,000 seater stadium but with many grounds well on their way to surpass such 'last century' grounds. He also mentioned the combined debt of IL clubs being 1.75 million iirc. What he failed to mention is that �1 million of that is his own clubs. All he can see is an AIL being a saviour in the short term for his club and not what is good for football across the island in the long term.

Just what i was thinking.

Saint_Charlie

18/09/2008, 9:28 PM

About the only coherent thing I thought watching that was 'I wish we had a CEO as media savvy as Richard Sadlier': or even a CEO......

We do :D

jebus

18/09/2008, 9:28 PM

For me the whole Irish barstooler mentality and the Irish sporting public's relationship with the EPL are key issues and they were totally overlooked.

In depth my hole.

Yeah I was hoping we'd get them talking about it in studio after the piece was over and that someone would bring up the fact that Irish clubs are doing badly because Irish people are glory hunters

A face

18/09/2008, 9:30 PM

If they had more time they could have done alot worse, but then again it was just long enough to get away with not giving the full picture.

The papers will love it though, some serious room arms and legs for them.

I would like to see the FAI come out with a statement in response to it and contest anything they are not happy with.

finnpark

18/09/2008, 9:34 PM

It smacked of written, directed and produced by P1.

Well if they are able to control RTE and their most watched show then imagine what they would do for football in this country.

P1 may have their own profits in mind but they would transform the league if given a chance. What are the FAI ever going to acheive in charge of the league?

The FAI and IFA should at least consider the proposals.

RonnieB

18/09/2008, 9:35 PM

What a load of Platinum 1 horse ****e. Even a fella in my local laughed at the bias to them. the same fella who lives for a club not from this locality.

Mr_Parker

18/09/2008, 9:39 PM

The FAI and IFA should at least consider the proposals.

But that's just it, what proposals. It's been debated to death but all they put forward was a wish list and some wishful thinking. There was nothing of substance.

sonofstan

18/09/2008, 9:42 PM

Part of the impetus for my rant last night was due to spending much of the day in Croke Park (working): I've never been to a game there, and while I've worked at gigs in the stadium, it took last night to make me realise the income streams they have from the conference facilities and the sheer size of the operation. Damn right, I'm jealous.

Thing is, 40 years ago, Croke Park and Dalymount would have been more similar than otherwise - the former bigger certainly, but not even twice as big, and the attendance at an FAI Cup final, while smaller than at an All Ireland, wouldn't have been dwarfed by it. So, until we grasp why the GAA have a facility, and a media presence, such that criticism of them is almost never voiced publicly anymore, whereas the league have United Park and Fran Gavin, we're paddling in circles.

Finn Park is right above; the FAI have no vision for the league beyond sustaining its current half- life as a welfare case; but, then nor do the clubs, beyond the 'group stages of the champions league' mirage, which, as I'm sure I've said before, bears the same relation to a sustainable development plan as buying a lotto ticket twice a week does to a pension plan.

finnpark

18/09/2008, 9:45 PM

What a load of Platinum 1 horse ****e. Even a fella in my local laughed at the bias to them. the same fella who lives for a club not from this locality.

Well ask the following questions:

1. Where do you see the league in 5 years time run as it is by the FAI?

2. Where do you see an All Ireland League in 5 years time, run by P1, if it was set up immediately?

Answer to Q1: The same as it is today minus a few clubs through liquidation and with a few more part time clubs. No media coverage and no progress in Europe.

Answer to Q2: 8-10 professional clubs self sustaining with regular qualification to the Champions League and Uefa Cup group stages. Media including Sky Sports and Setanta Sports, and a huge media coverage every day of the year just as British footie gets today. Fact!

BohDiddley

18/09/2008, 9:54 PM

But that's just it, what proposals. It's been debated to death but all they put forward was a wish list and some wishful thinking. There was nothing of substance.

There was nothing of substance other than a dispassionate recording of the fact that Irish football (it seems RTE are forced to call it soccer) is dying on its feet. Dream up all the conspiracy theories you want about who that story suits, but it is the stark reality.

Some people just don't believe it until they see it on TV. Some people will simply stay in denial.

As for AIL, John Delaney, Fran Gavin and the other naysayers either know something we don't or are very brave men to have scuppered the only proposal on the table. They had better have something good planned for the league.

blackholesun

18/09/2008, 9:55 PM

Jokeshop ... platinums proposals were full of crap, some of their "projections" were pure crazy, thinking that averages gates were going to jump 50% back in winter football just because they were going to market the league their way.

The league has been unsubstainably driven by egos, greed & selfishness for the last ten years plus. The sooner the rug is finally pulled from the last clubs clinging to this mindset i.e. Pats, Bohs and Drogs the better it will be for the league and we can get on with a league run within its means.

bhs

blackholesun

18/09/2008, 10:00 PM

Saint_Charlie

18/09/2008, 10:02 PM

Answer to Q2: 8-10 professional clubs self sustaining with regular qualification to the Champions League and Uefa Cup group stages. Media including Sky Sports and Setanta Sports, and a huge media coverage every day of the year just as British footie gets today. Fact!

I'm not sure if this is irony or not but if your being honest how can you think that? It will be the exact same as now only with Northern Irish teams in it.

finnpark

18/09/2008, 10:07 PM

>They had better have something good planned for the league.

Yes they do, its the salary cap protocol, the CPOs, MNS etc ...

I think the fundamentals of the league are slowly being put right by the FAI while every deluded club and fan blaims the FAI for their predicement.

bhs

You obviously have a pro FAI agenda there but its purely flawed. The media are making a joke out of the FAI and they have no control of it. Who got Staunton sacked? The media is the controlling power and regardless what the FAI do the league is doomed to failure because the FAI cannot control the media.

The FAI's selfishness and unwillingness to discuss it at their AGM sums their attitude. It wouldn't surprise me if Harps' and Bohs' new stadiums fall through now too.

finnpark

18/09/2008, 10:11 PM

I'm not sure if this is irony or not but if your being honest how can you think that? It will be the exact same as now only with Northern Irish teams in it.

P1 had a finance plan in place including a package with Sky. Fintan Drury is also Chairman of Paddy Power and is on AIB's board. He is a good friend of Brian Cowen, including writing some speeches for him. He used to work for RTE and the Irish Independent and does a lot of work with all the media on both sides of the border. This is the kind of person you need running the league to transform its fortunes overnight.

Mr_Parker

18/09/2008, 10:17 PM

He used to work for RTE and the Irish Independent

I didn't realise that. Things become a lot clearer now. ;)

Saint_Charlie

18/09/2008, 10:24 PM

P1 had a finance plan in place including a package with Sky. Fintan Drury is also Chairman of Paddy Power and is on AIB's board. He is a good friend of Brian Cowen, including writing some speeches for him. He used to work for RTE and the Irish Independent and does a lot of work with all the media on both sides of the border. This is the kind of person you need running the league to transform its fortunes overnight.

Thats a bit naive isn't it.

Why would sky have any interest (or setanta for that matter) in showing an All Ireland league when they already have the behemoth that is the Premier League?

finnpark

18/09/2008, 10:28 PM

Thats a bit naive isn't it.

Why would sky have any interest (or setanta for that matter) in showing an All Ireland league when they already have the behemoth that is the Premier League?

They both show many leagues from around Europe.

He is also good friends with Denis O'Brien who was the person who asked Delaney to sack Staunton and employ Trap.

The FAI are powerless!! Thats the problem!!

blackholesun

18/09/2008, 10:32 PM

You obviously have a pro FAI agenda there but its purely flawed.

No, I just call it as I see it now, look at the Futsal being started, look at the work they are doing in some of the inner city flat areas to get minisize futsal pitches built, look at all the development officers being appointed ...

The media are making a joke out of the FAI and they have no control of it. Who got Staunton sacked? The media is the controlling power and regardless what the FAI do the league is doomed to failure because the FAI cannot control the media.

True, but Ill add that I think it disgusting the way the media (football media in particular) try to drive the news, rather than report it.

The FAI's selfishness and unwillingness to discuss it at their AGM sums their attitude.

:eek: Platinum and their proposal were a jokeshop, would AIB or Ryanair be discussing some loons loking to take over at their AGM? dont think so! Platinum were in it for the money, not for the love of the game, bunch of chancers.

It wouldn't surprise me if Harps' and Bohs' new stadiums fall through now too.

I wasnt aware of difficulties with the Harps project? But if the builder who was going to take Finn Park is now getting twitchy that wouldnt surprise me, but how can you blame that on the FAI? As for the Bohs project, thats another jokeshop proposal by loons!

bhs

Magicme

18/09/2008, 10:38 PM

The depressing thing is, it'll focus on the current financial problems, contrast present poor attendances with the mythical millions in Glenmalure, Kilcohan and Flower Lodge, mention the thousand who sail (or fly) every Saturday to Anfield/ Emirates etc. and leave you wondering why even the few of us bother.

What it won't do is talk to a Drogs fan about how it felt in Kiev to be minutes away from unimaginable glory, to a Pat's fan about beating the Elfs, to a Bohs fan about how watching one of the best teams ever to grace this country every week puts a spring in your step through the week, and sends you home delirious on a friday night as we win - again, and again, and again.....

And how those feelings are - must be -a hundred times more intense that of a 'Pool or United fan after even a champions league win, because the 'us' you talk about really is 'us' - an entity you share with neighbours and friends, with the kids on the street and the oul' lads - and an 'us' that encompasses the players and manager, and the club secretary, in part at least, because none of them - not even Joe Gamble before he took his cut - is earning an unimaginable multiple of your own salary.

It's a feeling of community and a depth of passion that the media here has no problem celebrating when its attached to the GAA - and which is sometimes contrasted with the cynicism and professionalism of football, as if the premiership is football tout court. The fact that it exists right here, in Phibsboro', in Inchicore in Cork, Derry and Sligo, but attached to the same great game that RTE celebrate twice a week when it happens in 'real' places like Madrid or Liverpool, and without the small minded bigotry and thuggery of the graceless travesty that we parade as our national game, is ignored; instead, the undeniable mismanagement of the game here is rehearsed again, as if to show that we are not really worthy of having proper football teams and we'd be better off just settling down in front of the telly and watching our betters.

Unreal. How did you take the jumbled thoughts out of my head and make such glorious and almost poetic sense of them.

My son and I have just spent the last hour and half standing in the hallway (him sitting on the stairs en route to bed) discussing the exact points above.

There is so much more I want to say but I cant. Am so angry tonight.

pete

19/09/2008, 12:00 AM

I have no problem with the media calling it as it is but I naively expected better from RTEs flagship current affairs show. The Platinum One report was quoted as fact & was a very one sided report. Of the two City lads interviewed they got the caption wrong & were apparently heavily selective in the quote from the other.

If Prime Time were to do the LOI they should have researched properly & given over a full programme with in studio discussion.

Looked like a time filler that RTE put together yesterday.

There are some positives in the league. They could have at least given those an airing.

BTW Fran Gavin is hopeless on TV. Would be better off getting Noel Mooney out for those interviews.

A face

19/09/2008, 12:15 AM

You obviously have a pro FAI agenda there but its purely flawed. The media are making a joke out of the FAI and they have no control of it. Who got Staunton sacked? The media is the controlling power and regardless what the FAI do the league is doomed to failure because the FAI cannot control the media.

The FAI's selfishness and unwillingness to discuss it at their AGM sums their attitude. It wouldn't surprise me if Harps' and Bohs' new stadiums fall through now too.

P1 had a finance plan in place including a package with Sky. Fintan Drury is also Chairman of Paddy Power and is on AIB's board. He is a good friend of Brian Cowen, including writing some speeches for him. He used to work for RTE and the Irish Independent and does a lot of work with all the media on both sides of the border. This is the kind of person you need running the league to transform its fortunes overnight.

They both show many leagues from around Europe.

He is also good friends with Denis O'Brien who was the person who asked Delaney to sack Staunton and employ Trap.

The FAI are powerless!! Thats the problem!!

No, I just call it as I see it now, look at the Futsal being started, look at the work they are doing in some of the inner city flat areas to get minisize futsal pitches built, look at all the development officers being appointed ...

True, but Ill add that I think it disgusting the way the media (football media in particular) try to drive the news, rather than report it.

:eek: Platinum and their proposal were a jokeshop, would AIB or Ryanair be discussing some loons loking to take over at their AGM? dont think so! Platinum were in it for the money, not for the love of the game, bunch of chancers.

I wasnt aware of difficulties with the Harps project? But if the builder who was going to take Finn Park is now getting twitchy that wouldnt surprise me, but how can you blame that on the FAI? As for the Bohs project, thats another jokeshop proposal by loons!

bhs

BlackHoleSun .... thanks be to god man. I was lifting off my seat reading his stuff and would have gone off on one .... but i wont.

Finnpark .... you are so far up Drurys ass its just beyond not being real. Are you his lover or what?

The FAI are powerless!! Thats the problem!!

Are you on the same planet at all when you came out with that one?

Man, i give up ..... for tonight anyway.

A face

19/09/2008, 12:24 AM

And i knew it wouldn't be well researched, it was put together in a week tops and no where near the 'inside track to the league' that it made itself out to be.

Prime Time is a disaster of a programme and i cant trust another thing they cover. If they got it this wrong on this then why should we trust them to amazingly get it right on another topic.

brianw82

19/09/2008, 7:04 AM

As expected, losts on the proposed AIL, with no reasoning given as to WHY or HOW this will be Irish football's white knight. Remember, more than half the people watching that last night would have had no clue about domestic football, and they were probably asking the same question: 'How will an AIL solve these problems?'
Also, as mentioned by someone else, the fundamental lack of support for the leagues on both sides of the border was not mentioned at all.
Fran Gavin is hopeless on tv. You could put Fr. Purcell from Fr. Ted on and he'd make a better showing.

gspain

19/09/2008, 7:23 AM

It smacked of written, directed and produced by P1.

.

Spot on. :mad:

gspain

19/09/2008, 7:33 AM

I think the FAI need to take Drury on at this stage. It is a joke. He is allowed to continue his negative assault on th eleague unchecked.

Who licences him as an agent?

Salmon Coloured

19/09/2008, 8:27 AM

Mr A

19/09/2008, 8:34 AM

Essentially, football will die unless there's an AIL, and it's the FAI's fault for not backing P1.

Drogman.

19/09/2008, 9:50 AM

Platinum were in it for the money, not for the love of the game, bunch of chancers.

So what if they were in it for the money? I wouldn't expect a business to take on a new venture unless it was only for the money. For them to make that money they would need to make the product very good, that's what being in business is all about. If you can't understand that then you know nothing about business at all!

geezer

19/09/2008, 10:00 AM

gspain

19/09/2008, 10:11 AM

makes me laugh the way rte do these very bad presentations of the league. They show you the clapped out stands but fail to show the nice stadiums like terryland or the new piece going in at turners cross.
There is an ad on telly for the league that shows empty stadia as well. We all know there are problems but the league will survive

Notice the excited crowd scenes though when they talked about the AIL.

finnpark

19/09/2008, 10:19 AM

makes me laugh the way rte do these very bad presentations of the league. They show you the clapped out stands but fail to show the nice stadiums like terryland or the new piece going in at turners cross.
There is an ad on telly for the league that shows empty stadia as well. We all know there are problems but the league will survive

Of course it will survive. Its only small money really. even Cork's debts of �1.2m is small. Im sure there are foot.ie members on here with similar debts to Banks.

If you think Cork are bad, BOI are in real trouble. Billions in bad debts.

John83

19/09/2008, 10:20 AM

Apologies but I missed this programme last night. Can anyone just put down in bullet point form what exactly was discussed & the angle given on it, more to the point what wasnt discussed? I saw your posts above but just want a simple breakdown as your posts discuss what you feel about what you saw. Thanks.
The programme is on RTE's website here (http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/). Just click on "watch the show" on the right under the logo. A new window will open. The league part of the show is available as a seperate slot in the menu on the right.

pete

19/09/2008, 10:26 AM

Drury is a registered agent with the FAI (http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/administration/playersagents/association=irl.html).

I have no problem with Platinum One making money out of the AIL but like a lot of other fans feel their report made outlandish claims. There was nothing to back up the claim that attendances would increase 50% in year one. How does playing the more or less the same teams in the same grounds under a new league lead to such easily increased crowds? :confused:

finnpark

19/09/2008, 10:30 AM

Are you on the same planet at all when you came out with that one?

Man, i give up ..... for tonight anyway.

The FAI have no media pull and are slated week in week out. People's minds and actions are controlled by the media so its fair to say that people will be supporting British football for a long time to come.

If P1 were given a chance the AIL would be on everyone's lips as it would be in the media day in day out.

Inside Man

19/09/2008, 10:31 AM

makes me laugh the way rte do these very bad presentations of the league. They show you the clapped out stands but fail to show the nice stadiums like terryland or the new piece going in at turners cross.

Well obviously there not going to show that. It was about the problems with league finances. So of course there not going show Turners cross packed or Terrylands new stadia, thats just plain stupid. Use your head son.

I watched it. Didn't tell me nothing I already knew though. Waste of time really.

finnpark

19/09/2008, 10:32 AM

Well obviously there not going to show that. It was about the problems with league finances. So of course there not going show Turners cross packed or Terrylands new stadia, thats just plain stupid. Use your head son.

I watched it. Didn't tell me nothing I already knew though. Waste of time really.

They should do an investigation into where all that GAA money goes :D

pineapple stu

19/09/2008, 11:44 AM

Of course it will survive. Its only small money really. even Cork's debts of �1.2m is small. Im sure there are foot.ie members on here with similar debts to Banks.

finnpark, give the trolling a break. I'm sure there's lots of foot.ie members with million pound houses, but the difference between that and Cork is Cork's debts aren't secured on anything and they (presumably) don't have the income streams to repay the debts.

Jinxy

19/09/2008, 12:04 PM

Is it possible to have a thread on the state of domestic soccer without dragging the GAA into it? It merely serves to perpetuate the myth that the GAA are successful ergo they are somehow to blame for the league of ireland not being successful.

finnpark

19/09/2008, 12:34 PM

finnpark, give the trolling a break. I'm sure there's lots of foot.ie members with million pound houses, but the difference between that and Cork is Cork's debts aren't secured on anything and they (presumably) don't have the income streams to repay the debts.

Im not trolling - Im not too sure what it means anyway :o

Nobody's debts are secured. Cork would have a more guaranteed income stream than a very high % of workers in this country. If they go out of business it will be by choice.

pineapple stu

19/09/2008, 12:39 PM

Im not trolling - Im not too sure what it means anyway :o

Nobody's debts are secured. Cork would have a more guaranteed income stream than a very high % of workers in this country. If they go out of business it will be by choice.
You know damn well what trolling is, and you know damn well why the points you're making are groundless nonsense. Your mortgage is secured on your house and the only person you owe money to (the bank) is happy with that arranegment and will give you 30 years to pay. Cork have no assets, so their creditors are getting jumpy for their money and so they're in trouble.

passerrby

19/09/2008, 12:46 PM

what a flawed program full of unsubstaniated clap trap leauge in crisis so the only solution is P1 what a new low for primetime.
p.s. finnpark i hope your playing devils advocate otherwise you have gone down in my estimation

pineapple stu

19/09/2008, 12:59 PM

Complaints@RTE.ie if you want (I know that's A Face's job, but still! :) ) I've done it; made me feel better!

alansmithccfc

19/09/2008, 1:35 PM

Did peoplee really expect anything else?
They don't have a clue and they're a waste of a licence fee in every single way

Larry 'da' Wyse

19/09/2008, 2:04 PM

Essentially, football will die unless there's an AIL, and it's the FAI's fault for not backing P1.

Can't agree with that at all. The claims from P1 as already mentioend were
optimistic to say the least. Part of the porposal mentioned 'running non-league football (junior, intermediate etc) games to coincide with the new AIL league. I can see the FAI agreeing to that oke.
What Prime Time failed to mention was the recent meetings and comments from the IFA and FAI about an AIL. They should have asked Fran Rooney if there are any future plans etc.
I am happy with the change in the LOI so far under the admin of the FAI.
Prize money and tv exposure are at an all time high. If the public still do not want to go along and support a team there is little else the FAI could have done over the past 2 years. Clubs may go to the wall due to proper accounting for finance etc but we may get a better run league at the end of it as oppossed to no league at all

Calcio Jack

19/09/2008, 2:34 PM

Being a regular at LOL games for over 30 years and have watched it as an entity for most of that time limp along from crisis to crisis...

I think the P1 model could easily work on the basis that I've also watched a lot of club and interprovincial rugby in my time....30 years ago at your average crowd at a rugby intepro involving Leinster was a couple of thousand... then the professional era came in...lots of alickadoos in the rugby clubs moaned on about how the Heineken cup and professionalism would ruin the game...but guess what the public has responded , Leinster now get 13,000 on average into the RDS and Munster get even bigger crowds...

Anyway my point is whilist it's not a like for like comparion there is an audience out there for soccer (we know they just go to see internationals and/or the EPL) so I'd like to see P1 get the chance to develop an AIL.... one can go on about barstoolers and what they're missing and indeed many here IMO seem to want to have more crowds at LOL games but only on the condition that newbies swear an oath never again to watch an EPL game etc....well the world ain't like that and I for one would love to see much bigger crowds with lots of newbies watching a well funded better quality 10 team AIL, than the spectre of ongoing crisis after crisis that I've watched over for the last 30 something years...any takers ??

pineapple stu

19/09/2008, 2:39 PM

Calcio Jack

19/09/2008, 3:08 PM

galwayhoop

19/09/2008, 3:11 PM

I think where that analogy falls down is that the provincial rugby clubs are now good enough to compete with the best. If a new Dublin FC or Limerick FC could afford the top Irish internationals and compete or even win in the Champions' League, then it'd maybe work. But that's not going to happen.

not even just that but there are only 4 provinces - 2 of who are competitive, one who can be and one which is practically in existence for solely developmental purposes.

Munster get great crowds but cater for Limerick & cork among its number along with all the other counties.

Leinster get good crowds but again have the entire population of Dublin and the other commuter counties supporting them.

Ulster get good enough crowds but cover Belfast, Derry and the whole of the 6 counties and those who support Rugby in the other 3 ulster counties.

Connacht get crowds similar enough to big eircom league crowds.

The only way a soccer model could match or emulate the success of Rugby would be to go a similar route and go provincial and play in a Celtic league (Ireland, Scotland & Wales) and then enter European competition as them entities. The difference of course being the Provincial teams have been around for years in Rugby (and incidentially thats why they are allowed to play in the Heineken Cup instead of the club teams) but are non-existant in soccer, and thats even before trying to get the teams in the LoI & IL to agree to disband!!!

Not a runner.