Bohs 2007 Accounts

[pete]

Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/0903/1220372026802.html)

Don't think this has been posted any where else today.



The accounts for the year to November 30th, 2007, show the club's turnover - derived from gate receipts, sponsorship, membership subscriptions and transfer fees - rose by two-thirds to €1.7 million, though overheads jumped 42 per cent to €2.7 million. Players' wages increased to €1.4 million from €861,000, while match-day expenses rose to €170,900 from €51,700.

Bohemians enjoyed a €418,000 gain from hiring out its ground.

According to the accounts, Mr Carroll's company Danninger has agreed to pay the club €38.125 million in cash and to build a 10,000-seat stadium at Harristown worth €20 million.

The club benefited from a €1.1 million payment from Danninger during the year, the second instalment of payments agreed under contract. However, the club carried forward retained losses of almost €1.6 million.

I presume wages have increased in 2008? Does this mean Bohs losing money even after Developer contribution.

Wages 1.4m
Expenses 1.7m
Turnover 2.1m

:confused:

[bohs til i die]

Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/0903/1220372026802.html)

Don't think this has been posted any where else today.



I presume wages have increased in 2008? Does this mean Bohs losing money even after Developer contribution.

Wages 1.4m
Expenses 1.7m
Turnover 2.1m

:confused:


The developer paid in an amount, i thought it was 800k, but this says it was 1.1 Million. Our trading losses were €1.3 million. That 1.4 million figure is for playing staff only and i reckon it is about the same this year.

Gone from last year are -
McCann, Richardson, Harkin, Hunt, Blayney, Mansaram, McGinley (on loan), Byrne, Turner, Pooley, Kingsberry, Rice

We signed Brennan, Oman, Byrne, Cronin and Konopka at the start of the year
Deegan, Anto Murphy, Kalonas and McGill have come in mid-season

Our expenditure was just under €3,000,000. The money from ground rental was part of our income.

[ForzaWexford]

Expenses €0.17 million imo.

[SunderlandBohs]

The words "mountain" & "molehill" spring to mind when I read that report.

[Dodge]

The words "mountain" & "molehill" spring to mind when I read that report.

Really? "****creek" and "twig for a paddle" came to mind

[pete]

If Bohs lose the impending court case related to the shopping centre end then all bets are off.

Even Bohs win that case I doubt Danninger will stick to existing deal & would like to renegotiate.

Given the problems with building green field site stadiums in this country I wouldn't be confident of getting planning permission in Harristown.

[pineapple stu]

Gone from last year are -
McCann, Richardson, Harkin, Hunt, Blayney, Mansaram, McGinley (on loan), Byrne, Turner, Pooley, Kingsberry, Rice
Hunt and Mansaram anyway were on the wages for the first half of the season. Would have thought those signed were on higher wages than those let go.

Nothing we didn't know anyway. If the ground deal gets cancelled, Bohs are the new Shels.

[OneRedArmy]

The words "mountain" & "molehill" spring to mind when I read that report.
I agree.

Your problems are more "mountain" than "molehill".

Shels Mark II here we come.

When is the Court case due to be decided on?

[pineapple stu]

6 October I think.

[bohs til i die]

Hunt and Mansaram anyway were on the wages for the first half of the season. Would have thought those signed were on higher wages than those let go.

Nothing we didn't know anyway. If the ground deal gets cancelled, Bohs are the new Shels.

Given that we have signed 3 less then we have let go I would be surprised if the wage bill has increased by any siignificant amount, if at all.

[pineapple stu]

It's possible, but some of the lads who signed seem to be bigger earners than those let go (Byrne or Oman v anyone for example).

I suppose I'm just sceptical given that Shels fans claimed the exact same thing when they were going belly up. Suppose also if the wage bill is the same, that leaves you facing into another half million loss this year (before admittedly increased prize money). Without the ground money, there's only so long that can last.

[Strabane_Chant]

It's possible, but some of the lads who signed seem to be bigger earners than those let go (Byrne or Oman v anyone for example).

I suppose I'm just sceptical given that Shels fans claimed the exact same thing when they were going belly up. Suppose also if the wage bill is the same, that leaves you facing into another half million loss this year (before admittedly increased prize money). Without the ground money, there's only so long that can last.

Mistake me if im wrong but does every club Fenlon goes to they seem to go bankrupt or they are in debt big time? *Shels* *Bohs* and of course *Derry* who went to the moles when he came.

[gufct]

There is also Sean Connors court case which he looks like he will win .The sum there is anywhere between €150k and €250K plus Chris Turners Pay off estmated at €100k plus. Looks like licencing next year will be fun and im including ourselves in that.

[bohs til i die]

Mistake me if im wrong but does every club Fenlon goes to they seem to go bankrupt or they are in debt big time? *Shels* *Bohs* and of course *Derry* who went to the moles when he came.


I think thats harsh on Fenlon for this year anyway. You can hardly blame him for what happened at Bohs last year under Connor

[Krstic]

Mistake me if im wrong but does every club Fenlon goes to they seem to go bankrupt or they are in debt big time? *Shels* *Bohs* and of course *Derry* who went to the moles when he came.

I'll mistake you then cause you're wrong (don't know what that means, but you started it)

Derry didn't let him spend like a little spoilt boy in a toyshop, therefore he jumped ship as he's a crap manager unless he can buy everyone in sight.

And Derry didn't go bankrupt, although Harps failed to pay their players one week so maybe his presence in the north west had an adverse effect on them.

[placid casual]

oh deary me.:)

FOBOHS
FOBAS
FONBB

oh dont mind me i'm just trying to pre-empt what the supporters group are gonna call themselves.
carry on.

[EalingGreen]

plus Chris Turners Pay off estmated at €100k plus.

Is this covered anywhere else on this forum? If not, can you tell me if there's a story behind it?

I only ask, since Turner has just signed for Partick Thistle, after an extended trial with Rangers (during which he apparently impressed sufficiently to be seriously considered for a contract at Ibox)

[Strabane_Chant]

I think thats harsh on Fenlon for this year anyway. You can hardly blame him for what happened at Bohs last year under Connor

True about this year in parts, but he is the manager for Bohs this year and if he was any type of decent manager in my opinion he would cut back and sort out the clubs infrastructure hence the players wage bill.
Plans for a new bigger stadium also means time for a change in the club to stay up at the top how they are now not in a year or two being docked points because of Fenlons poor handling of wages and debt.
Look at any club been long time back to back titles for anyone reason why it cant be done poor handling of players wages *just because won league does not mean a bigger contract so club can go in debt* and spending on ridiculous players that never seen before and end up in reserves costing club thousands.

[Krstic]

True about this year in parts, but he is the manager for Bohs this year and if he was any type of decent manager in my opinion he would cut back and sort out the clubs infrastructure hence the players wage bill.
Plans for a new bigger stadium also means time for a change in the club to stay up at the top how they are now not in a year or two being docked points because of Fenlons poor handling of wages and debt.
Look at any club been long time back to back titles for anyone reason why it cant be done poor handling of players wages *just because won league does not mean a bigger contract so club can go in debt* and spending on ridiculous players that never seen before and end up in reserves costing club thousands.


I've read that post 3 times and each time it gets more confusing.
Are you drunk?

[Dodge]

oh deary me.:)

FOBOHS
FOBAS
FONBB

oh dont mind me i'm just trying to pre-empt what the supporters group are gonna call themselves.
carry on.

As a members club if Bohs go to the wall, they can't blame anybody but themselves

[jinxy lilywhite]

True about this year in parts, but he is the manager for Bohs this year and if he was any type of decent manager in my opinion he would cut back and sort out the clubs infrastructure hence the players wage bill.
Plans for a new bigger stadium also means time for a change in the club to stay up at the top how they are now not in a year or two being docked points because of Fenlons poor handling of wages and debt.
Look at any club been long time back to back titles for anyone reason why it cant be done poor handling of players wages *just because won league does not mean a bigger contract so club can go in debt* and spending on ridiculous players that never seen before and end up in reserves costing club thousands.

Im no fan of fenlon but I don't think its his job to control wages of players. The board dictate what the wage budget is and Fenlon has to work within that. I suppose as far as he is concerned as long as he isn't over budget on players wages then the board have sufficient income coming in.

[Strabane_Chant]

I've read that post 3 times and each time it gets more confusing.
Are you drunk?
Whats there not to understand? Managers ruin the league and Fenlon is the biggest *** for doing so. Managers can cut the players wage bill instead of increasing it every year just because they won a cup or league. By doing this the clubs debt is going to increase.
Point of thread is Clubs cant handle their finances...

[Dodge]

Managers can cut the players wage bill instead of increasing it every year just because they won a cup or league

Managers ask the committee/board for a budget. The committee/board decide how much to give him. Strong directors are what's needed

[sonofstan]

As a members club if Bohs go to the wall, they can't blame anybody but themselves

We can blame each other... which is slightly different.:)

[Dodge]

we can blame each other... Which is slightly different.:)

lol :D

[jinxy lilywhite]

Whats there not to understand? Managers ruin the league and Fenlon is the biggest *** for doing so. Managers can cut the players wage bill instead of increasing it every year just because they won a cup or league. By doing this the clubs debt is going to increase.
Point of thread is Clubs cant handle their finances...

No they don't. The boards ruin the league. Is it Fenlons fault that Shels went to the wall because the board couldn't pay the debts?
Was it Dave O'Leary's fault that Peter Ridsdale borrowed money from bank on the future assuarance that Leeds would be Champions League regulars?
Is it Alan Matthews fault for Corks current predicament?
Is it Paul Cooks fault Sligo are where they are?
Clubs don't go to the wall because of a manager purchasing players and paying wages. The board dictates the budgets and if they get it wrong then its the boards fault. The buck stops with them.

[Strabane_Chant]

[quote=jinxy lilywhite;1013938]No they don't. The boards ruin the league. Is it Fenlons fault that Shels went to the wall because the board couldn't pay the debts?
Fenlon had nearly a squad to play 3 teams at once Fenlon goes to board asks can i buy player board obviously not knowing much about a players ability in say hmm *serbia* Fenlon watches him train buys him leaves him on bench its twice as bad when got board who know nothing about their job then got a manager who certainly wastes the boards money on players do not will not need play.

[jinxy lilywhite]

No they don't. The boards ruin the league. Is it Fenlons fault that Shels went to the wall because the board couldn't pay the debts?
Fenlon had nearly a squad to play 3 teams at once Fenlon goes to board asks can i buy player board obviously not knowing much about a players ability in say hmm *serbia* Fenlon watches him train buys him leaves him on bench its twice as bad when got board who know nothing about their job then got a manager who certainly wastes the boards money on players do not will not need play.
I really couldn't understand that.
No I don't think its the managers problems. Its whoever sanctioned the transfer who is at fault. As was said earlier strong directors is whats needed. most clubs allow managers to sign who they want but most/every club has a budget that has to be enforced and obeyed. So no i don't accept that argument that its the managers fault if a team goes belly up

[pete]

Mistake me if im wrong but does every club Fenlon goes to they seem to go bankrupt or they are in debt big time? *Shels* *Bohs* and of course *Derry* who went to the moles when he came.

Fenlon is to management what Dave Mooney is to player. Mooney has 100% asterisk record though.

[CharlesThompson]

True about this year in parts, but he is the manager for Bohs this year and if he was any type of decent manager in my opinion he would cut back and sort out the clubs infrastructure hence the players wage bill.
Plans for a new bigger stadium also means time for a change in the club to stay up at the top how they are now not in a year or two being docked points because of Fenlons poor handling of wages and debt.
Look at any club been long time back to back titles for anyone reason why it cant be done poor handling of players wages *just because won league does not mean a bigger contract so club can go in debt* and spending on ridiculous players that never seen before and end up in reserves costing club thousands.


Fenlon had nearly a squad to play 3 teams at once Fenlon goes to board asks can i buy player board obviously not knowing much about a players ability in say hmm *serbia* Fenlon watches him train buys him leaves him on bench its twice as bad when got board who know nothing about their job then got a manager who certainly wastes the boards money on players do not will not need play.

Ehrm. What in the name of sweet suffering Mary are you talking about?

On the question at hand, if Bohs go to the wall - which is the concern of this thread - then little blame lies with Pat Fenlon, just as little to blame was he for Shelbournes ills (Derry,...?). The book stops firmly at the board. If they don't have their shít together then it is there that the blame lies. Simple as.

[the-blue-harp]

Fenlon is to management what Dave Mooney is to player. Mooney has 100% asterisk record though.

and mooney even threw a hissy fit last week at tolka, what a money grabber. is he worth it, in a nutshell, no!

[Macy]

Fenlon is to management what Dave Mooney is to player. Mooney has 100% asterisk record though.
Matthew's isn't far behind! Possibly the whole credit crunch is his fault too.

[pete]

and mooney even threw a hissy fit last week at tolka, what a money grabber. is he worth it, in a nutshell, no!

Mooney was in Reading last week & was suspended for the Rovers v City Cup game.

You have lost me now. :confused:

[the-blue-harp]

sorry i was thinking on gamble then! i apologise!!:eek:

[Dodge]

Matthew's isn't far behind! Possibly the whole credit crunch is his fault too.

Giving his background, this is entirely believable.

[MariborKev]

Getting back on topic.

Any Bohs fans know how you raised revenue from rental, as it is a sizeable amount?

[pineapple stu]

Renting the car park to the Mater, as far as I'm aware.

If Fenlon cut back on what he was given to spend, and ended up in a realistic position for a club Bohs' size (i.e. mid-table, takes shelter :) ), he'd be sacked and replaced with someone who would spend the money. Blaming the manager is nonsensical

[higgins]

There's a lot more other than players wages that a manager has input into. Sending players off for tests every time they sneeze is not good practice. Medical bills at Shels were through the roof... Paying for overnight stays for non important games, meals at expensive places, expensive hotel stays. Having to workout at the most expensive gym in town etc etc

You can't blame the manager for a clubs problems but some of them certainly don't help matters.

[kdjaC]

TSending players off for tests every time they sneeze is not good practice. Medical bills at Shels were through the roof... .

We called it Joey Ndo fees.



kdjac

[Bohemian1890]

There is also Sean Connors court case which he looks like he will win .The sum there is anywhere between €150k and €250K plus Chris Turners Pay off estmated at €100k plus. Looks like licencing next year will be fun and im including ourselves in that.

:eek::confused::rolleyes:If you believe Chris Turner got paid off with 100k your stupid.

[Bohemian1890]

I'll mistake you then cause you're wrong (don't know what that means, but you started it)

Derry didn't let him spend like a little spoilt boy in a toyshop, therefore he jumped ship as he's a crap manager unless he can buy everyone in sight.


Fenlon did not buy anyone all his singing bar Jason Byrne are on 1 years deals.

Derry singed Ola Tidaman,Alan Moore,Karl Bermingham,Peter Hynes,Dave Rogers.

Fenlon panic signed useless players up there the whinging by the fans for the bottler Kenny didnt help either.

[DmanDmythDledge]

If Bohs lose the impending court case related to the shopping centre end then all bets are off.

Even Bohs win that case I doubt Danninger will stick to existing deal & would like to renegotiate.
Would be interesting to see what would happen if they lose the court case because they would then be over the 65% wage budget without the money from Danninger.

[pete]

Would be interesting to see what would happen if they lose the court case because they would then be over the 65% wage budget without the money from Danninger.

Depends if he has paid 2008 monies already.

At this rate UCD will win the league by default. :p

[Krstic]

Depends if he has paid 2008 monies already.

At this rate UCD will win the league by default. :p

Not as laughable as you might think pete, it really could be a case of last man standing.

[pineapple stu]

Just check Sheridan's signature. :)

[DmanDmythDledge]

Depends if he has paid 2008 monies already.
He's holding out till after the court case.

[Salmon Coloured]

I think I know who Strabane Chant is by the way folks. Alright there KT? Dont worry this person is a spoofer, just dangle the carrot in front of them & watch them yip like a Tyrone Chihuahua.

[Mr A]

More Liam Carroll related news: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0623/1224249339839.html

[Mr A]

Whoops, I may have resurrected an older thread than I meant to there!