Joe Gamble?

[minty]

Is he staying or leaving?

[A face]

Leaving i'd say, the question is where.

[Dodge]

Leaving i'd say, the question is where.

He won't be moving until the end of the season (if in Ireland) or January (if abroad)

[pete]

Talk of some loophole that would allow him to move to Pats now. Can't see how that is possible myself...

[Dodge]

Well if he's a completely free agent (like Paisley at Longford, or the Shels players) he can sign outside the window.

I'd ahve thought him agreeing to "defer" his wages meant he wasn't a total free agent

[Macy]

I'd ahve thought him agreeing to "defer" his wages meant he wasn't a total free agent
I would say the deferal was on the basis that they can leave as a free agent?

[Longfordian]

Well if he's a completely free agent (like Paisley at Longford, or the Shels players) he can sign outside the window.

I'd ahve thought him agreeing to "defer" his wages meant he wasn't a total free agent

Paisley agreed to defer his but still went as a free agent. I'd imagine Gamble could do the same all things being equal.

[Dodge]

You'd know better than me lads...

[Shelsman]

Paisley agreed to defer his but still went as a free agent. I'd imagine Gamble could do the same all things being equal.

Mustn't forget the Anti-Cork Conspiracy though.........

:rolleyes:

[micls]

Well if he's a completely free agent (like Paisley at Longford, or the Shels players) he can sign outside the window.

I'd ahve thought him agreeing to "defer" his wages meant he wasn't a total free agent

Do you have to be a free agent befor ethe transfer window closes for this? Thats what i thought.

Otherwise why would the PFAI have tried to get the transfer window re-opened?

[Longfordian]

I think there was a deadline of the end of August, might have been the 29th, for any Eircom League signings free agent or not now that I come to think of it. That would explain McGuiness' comments as you say micls.

[jebus]

I thought there was a seperate deadline for free transfers outside of the usual transfer window?

[Longfordian]

Yes that's what I meant. Forgive my clumsy phrasing!. Free agents could have been signed up until the end of August, contracted players could only have been signed until 31st July

[higgins]

If he's a free agent I can't see why he wouldn't be allowed sign for another Irish club.

You can't just offer somebody 30% and say thats that you're under contract.
Sure Shels could have put 1 euro into the bank accounts of all the players and what, say they are still under contract !!

They are still there as they believe they are high up the list to get their 70% back and nobody else will offer them another contract on the silly money Cork are giving them. I'm sure they can handle a few weeks on 30% to see how things go.

They will always be owed the 70%.
Shels paid back all the players that went without money. Indeed if they had not done so the licence would have been taken away. Players are covered here lads.

In my opinion cork are digging a bigger hole waiting around for Mr Investor while running up further debts. Those players should be moved on ASAP.
You were in 1.3million worth of debt.
You are now in 1.3million + examiner fee + 70% players wages for 3 weeks worth of debt.

[micls]

If he's a free agent I can't see why he wouldn't be allowed sign for another Irish club.

well our players and the PFAI are unedr the impression that they cant move to Irish clubs. i always thought you had to be a free agent before teh transfer window closed to move outside it.


You can't just offer somebody 30% and say thats that you're under contract

We didnt. They are all free agents.


They are still there as they believe they are high up the list to get their 70% back and nobody else will offer them another contract on the silly money Cork are giving them. I'm sure they can handle a few weeks on 30% to see how things go.
maybe. A few of them turned down moves yesterday. Some have come out saying that they are settled in Cork and dont want to move. Families kids etc there's more to it than just money.


They all came to the FORAS meeting too


They will always be owed the 70%.


true, but if the club goes bust(which is highly possile) theyl get nothing.


In my opinion cork are digging a bigger hole waiting around for Mr Investor while running up further debts. Those players should be moved on ASAP.
You were in 1.3million worth of debt.

Waiting for Mr investor? We're doing our best to raise the funds we need. We do not run the club, right now the examiner does. Teh players were told on Firday of an interested investor which apparently convinced a good few of them not to move on and to wait things out.

Personally I think we'd have been better off if theyd gone but there's nothing we can do. The examiner makes these decisions

You are now in 1.3million + examiner fee + 70% players wages for 3 weeks worth of debt.

Im pretty sure that 1.3 million figure is wrong, AFAIk thats the figure til the end of season its 800k at the moment.

I know what your saying, but theres nothing we can do about it right now.

[A face]

Paisley agreed to defer his but still went as a free agent.

There was very dodgy circumstances in all of that case though. People held positions which they shouldn't have because there was a glaring conflict of interests that the FAI FAILED to pick up on.

I dont think we are allowed talk about it though ....

[Longfordian]

Oh I'm well aware of all of that believe me but the facts are the facts. Deferral = non payment = free agent as far as that precedent goes.

[higgins]

Come on lads,, its clear that Cork fans don't see what's happening at their club to be the same as what happened at Longford and Shels. It was the fans fault at all other clubs when things go wrong but this time it's big bold Arkaga and not Corks fans it seems to be!!

Longford and Shels players were free agents but Corks are not ???

The players are covered more than anybody.
They can't be told to accept 30% or else. They are free agents unless they have signed new contracts!! and I doubt any of them did.

They are on inflated contracts down there and why would they leave ??? Sure they are getting the 70% back at some stage. Cork are the bigger fools not selling on these players for what they can get. You're making the problems worse by trying to hold onto them. Your seasons over for feck sake! you've nothing to play for really. In fact by staying and not paying them you're likely to see a points deduction of some sort if it lasts much longer.

[Dodge]

I dont think we are allowed talk about it though ....

Because you're making it up to fit your own agenda. Nobody involved had a conflict of interest.

[micls]

Come on lads,, its clear that Cork fans don't see what's happening at their club to be the same as what happened at Longford and Shels. It was the fans fault at all other clubs when things go wrong but this time it's big bold Arkaga and not Corks fans it seems to be!!
What? Who has said its any different


Longford and Shels players were free agents but Corks are not ???
Eh you're the only one who's said this. Any fan of ours that Ive spoken to or read knows our players are free agents



They are on inflated contracts down there and why would they leave ??? Sure they are getting the 70% back at some stage.
Eh to actually get paid. They only get the 70% back at some stage if we dont go to the wall.



Cork are the bigger fools not selling on these players for what they can get. You're making the problems worse by trying to hold onto them. Your seasons over for feck sake! you've nothing to play for really. In fact by staying and not paying them you're likely to see a points deduction of some sort if it lasts much longer.

Again the person making this decision is the examiner, someone with no link at all to the club.

personally Id prefer if theyd gone but I think he probably knows more than either of us about the situation

[higgins]

There must be a load who knew what was going on. There would even have been fans that knew what was going on. Arkaga are Cork, I just don't agree with the seperation. If Arkaga mess up Cork should be punished.

As for the players staying on or not.
It was my understanding that at the end of the examinership process they make a decision on the future of the business. It can't all be that difficult if the 5 weeks end and they see you have a wage bill of 40K a week with 1.3million in debts + the 70% wages for 7 weeks running + the examiner and legal fees.

I know money will come in between then and now but I thought it would be crucial to cut the wage bill. That happened at rovers did it not ? I know at Shels every effort was made to get the players moved on. Longford also knew what they had to do to keep the show on the road.

I'd love to know what makes the Cork situation different.
Seems to be an investor or bust in my opinion as FORAS can't take on a club with a 40K a week wage bill come October.

You're kidding yourselves if you think you can.
Cut the expenditure, restructure the debts and get working on them before the licence comes round.

Can you answer me this.
Are you in more debt now then you were when this examinership process started ?

[Dodge]

There must be a load who knew what was going on. There would even have been fans that knew what was going on. Arkaga are Cork, I just don't agree with the seperation. If Arkaga mess up Cork should be punished.
Hence the ten point penalty. We'll see how next year's license application goes.



I'd love to know what makes the Cork situation different

Are you for real? Its been explained 100s of times for you.


Cut the expenditure, restructure the debts and get working on them before the licence comes round.
You do realise a lot of people have been made redundant over this, don't you?

Seriously, if you're going to be all preachy, you should at least be up to speed on what has actually happened, and what is happening currently

[higgins]

I do know what has happened.
Everybody still at the club is on 30% . Meaning the remaining 70% is added on to the debt they have.

Back Office staff have left along with Mooney and O'Flynn. Players make up the bulk of the weekly wages, they should be moved on.

How would you deal with the problem Dodge ?

Can you honestly tell me that if expenditure stays as high as it seems it is from reports that they will continue without an investor ?

By the way the 10 points was only for entering examinership. When the report comes from the examiner and the accouts are checked against previous accounts and players are owed money I can't see them staying out of the FAI's bad books. Certainly if any agreements are made with creditors that leaves them owing less than 100% then they are in a false position in the league and should be demoted or docked further points.

[A face]

..............

[Dodge]

How would you deal with the problem Dodge ?

I'd let the examiner do his job. Remember he's the ONLY person who could let players go, or could agree the defereal, or indeed anything else to do with the club.

Unless you think you know better than him?

[pete]

I do know what has happened.
Everybody still at the club is on 30% . Meaning the remaining 70% is added on to the debt they have.

The players have agreed to get paid no less than 30% of their wages with the remainder deferred. They were all free to leave if they choose at the weekend. I would have preferred to see some high earners leave as would have meant less players wages added to the debt.

If someone comes in & buys our club & is quoted as saying they have budgeted fir 1m loss how is it our fault for taking them at their word? Sure we can be skeptical but what else could we have done.

It was Shels who started the wages bidding war!

[higgins]

You went from 0 to 1.3million in debt over one night ?
Did you all have your heads in the sand or something :)

Why didn't you join together and oust the bold Arkaga ?
Seem to remember that advice when Shels were faced with Ollie spending everything we had!

Wages bidding war ?
Shels fault now Cork can't pay their wages ???

Not like the writng wasn't on the wall. You'd a winding up order against you too the same time Shels had. That old Historical debt wasn't it ? Owners telling you they are going to run up a 1 million loss. Plenty of backroom staff around the club and nobody willing to call a halt to the non paying of creditors.

Directors resigning AFTER it all came out.

Of course things are different when it's Cork.
Nobody is to blame here .....

As for the examiner. I don't know more than him but from what I do know I'd be willing to bet that he's banking on an investor or bust. He doesn't seem able to cut the playing budget by enough that would allow a group like FORAS take on the running of the club ? There's talk of the win bonuses and goal scoring and clean sheet bonuses being crazy. If that's the case then those players should be moved on ASAP. Matthews on talking about how the club want to keep the players every second day doesn't help, I assume that he's not telling lies ?

[micls]

Higgins, I get this is a great laugh and I dont blame you, but could you at least read the posts before making the same points repeatedly

There must be a load who knew what was going on.
Must there have been? Loads? Everyone knew we were paying crazy money, however Arkaga pledged to cover it. How many people would know they planned to renege on this? My bet would be one, the man in charge and maybe one or two of his cronies. Maybe you know better though



There would even have been fans that knew what was going on.
Yeah, mystic meg is actually a City fan and read Walshes mind.


Arkaga are Cork, I just don't agree with the seperation. If Arkaga mess up Cork should be punished.

Who said any different? Did you miss teh points deduction?


As for the players staying on or not.
It was my understanding that at the end of the examinership process they make a decision on the future of the business. It can't all be that difficult if the 5 weeks end and they see you have a wage bill of 40K a week with 1.3million in debts + the 70% wages for 7 weeks running + the examiner and legal fees.

I know money will come in between then and now but I thought it would be crucial to cut the wage bill. That happened at rovers did it not ?
FOR THE LAST TIME, the examiner is th ONLY person that can make that decision right now. he's in charge. What part of that is so difficult for you to grasp?


I know at Shels every effort was made to get the players moved on. Longford also knew what they had to do to keep the show on the road.
I'd love to know what makes the Cork situation different.

Em, teh fact that they werent in examinership adn had some control over what happened? Maybe?


Seems to be an investor or bust in my opinion as FORAS can't take on a club with a 40K a week wage bill come October.

I dont know. Obviously its a big ask, but if we can get rid of most players come November(when we'd be in a position to do so) who knows.


You're kidding yourselves if you think you can.
Thanks for the advice. You're right we shoudl just not try


Cut the expenditure, restructure the debts and get working on them before the licence comes round.
Jesus H. Is there a head banging against a wall smilie? How exactly are we supposed to do this Higgins? We as in anyone involved in City?


Can you answer me this.
Are you in more debt now then you were when this examinership process started ?

Id imagine so, no money was put in for a few weeks and the players 70% is to be added n too, plus examinership costs etc

[higgins]

Thanks for the reply :)
Looks like we have some agreement!
I accept the examiner is calling the shots. My comments are more in disbelief about what seems to be unfolding before my eyes. It seems silly to keep players at a club who are playing for 4th place.

Arkaga didn't pull the plug 3 weeks ago. It would have been clear many months ago by others at the club that bills were not being paid. Anyway, you are where you are I suppose the past can't be changed.

You can cut the budget come November but doesn't the call on the business have to be made Oct 5th ?

Do you not think it's looking like investor or bust ?
Examiner using a strong team as bait for that investor ?
I do hope you get somebody in by the way, don't want any of the clubs going out of business.

Just a lot of strange decisions being made by the examiner and not much anger by Cork fans. I read your forum and players were getting called legends for staying and refusing contracts!!! that to me is a contradiction with fans also saying that the club is bigger than any player.

[micls]

Arkaga didn't pull the plug 3 weeks ago. It would have been clear many months ago by others at the club that bills were not being paid.

To who though? People were told that there was money coming from England, they ahd the written guarantee. maybe there was naivety there but people just didnt expect 'professionals' to act like that and renege on tehir agreements.


You can cut the budget come November but doesn't the call on the business have to be made Oct 5th ?
Yes. but there has to be a reason imo that teh examiner didnt cull the squad completely. he knows what hes doing


Do you not think it's looking like investor or bust ?

Honestly, no. I think there is still a chance if we dont get an investor. FORAS is spreading and growing. If we can get the money and set up payment plans I think the examiner might see us with ahving a chance.

Im sure wed be relegated and basically lose everyone but I think we can save the club.

itl be far from easy but I think its possible.


Examiner using a strong team as bait for that investor ?
Possibly. I think its a case that he thinks there is someone seriously interested and so didnt want to break up the team and risk scaring them off. Rumours seem like theres a good chance of investment but either way FORAS need to be involved


I do hope you get somebody in by the way, don't want any of the clubs going out of business.

Thanks


Just a lot of strange decisions being made by the examiner and not much anger by Cork fans.
I trust the examiner. He knows what he's doing.


I read your forum and players were getting called legends for staying and refusing contracts!!!
They are. They have been told we can keep them, by the examiner, and on 30% of wages they ahve agreed to stay and take the chance.

but I think you're mistaken as to the reason they are being called legends. To me, and many others, they are legends for taking the time to come to the FORAS meeting which they didnt have to the day they took the pay cut, and for Dan Murray standing up and saying stuff like the players arent important now we have to do anything we can to save the club etc etc.

For turning up to every fundraising event to help out. Volunteering their services for basically anything, and not just for the club but for FORAS.

Theres a great atmosphere in the squad at the moment, they are very committed and going above and beyond for 30%.



that to me is a contradiction with fans also saying that the club is bigger than any player.

Its not. We would get rid of everyone of them tomorrow to save the club. But the way tehy ahve reacted through this will always mean they are legends

[pete]

Thanks for the reply :)
Arkaga didn't pull the plug 3 weeks ago. It would have been clear many months ago by others at the club that bills were not being paid..

Only the CEO/Accountant would know.

If your employer was not paying bills would you notice before they stopped paying your wages?

:rolleyes: