Hypocrisy

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 8:52 AM

the final chapter.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1207/crib.html

People on this forum, and in Ireland generaly now are affront to the power the church has in this day and age. They castigate the church, when suits, but on the other hand, xmas etc is still the biggest phenomenon in Eire and women ( along with their husbands, many included on this forum I'm sure ) still crave the "big church wedding". This hypocrisy really winds me up, partly because I go to mass nearly every week, but it wouldn't bother me if I didnt get married in the church, yet those who dont go assume its their "god" given right to have their big lovely day in the church, but yet when it suits will be the first on the bandwagon to complain about the church.

I'm pretty sure I could name the more prominent members on this forum who would be the first to do this also.

Discuss.....

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 9:09 AM

That ad was banned under legislation. Blame the FF politicians that brought it in in 88, and amended it in 2001.

I agree we should go back to original meaning of Christmas time - the pagan winter solstice festivals, and their traditions of logs, trees, holly, misletoe. Happy midwinter one and all.

The church should be delighted that people still want to get married in them and maintain some connection, given the way attendances are dropping. And most priests seem to agree, only the fundamentalists seem to have a problem with it. Much better to maintain the connection voluntary through marriages and christenings that the effective blackmailing through the schooling system which is happening all over Ireland.

**DIFChick** · 07/12/2007, 9:11 AM

You said it all in your post Macy and I agree with ya all the way.

**Magicme** · 07/12/2007, 9:19 AM

I dont got to mass. When I got married it was a civil cermony on the beach in Barbados. I didn't want to baptise my children but pressure from family caved me in. I gave my kids the choice if they wanted to make their 1st communion & confirmation. They choose to do so mainly coz everyone in their class was doing it and didnt want to be left out.

For me Christmas stopped being religious 14 yrs ago and now it is an amazingly beautiful time when my family (including my aunt & uncle from holland, granny, other aunt, her kids and their kids) all descend on my parents home and we have the time of our lives together. It is a few days where we put our busy lives aside and really really enjoy each others company. The presents and food are secondary to the love that is in the house on that day.

Its a tradition borne out of a religious event but the religion plays no place in it anymore for me. Like Macy, I would like to see it back to the truer tradition of celebrating that you are still alive and have family in the dead of winter.

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 9:20 AM

Actually, reading the link that Paul provided for the basis for his rant, the ad wasn't even banned - RTE said veritas should run it past the BCI to see whether it complied with the legislation and veritas didn't bother their hole and changed it instead. PC Gone Mad indeed

**endabob1** · 07/12/2007, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

I agree we should go back to original meaning of Christmas time - the pagan winter solstice festivals, and their traditions of logs, trees, holly, misletoe. Happy midwinter one and all.

The church should be delighted that people still want to get married in them and maintain some connection, given the way attendances are dropping. And most priests seem to agree, only the fundamentalists seem to have a problem with it. Much better to maintain the connection voluntary through marriages and christenings that the effective blackmailing through the schooling system which is happening all over Ireland.

Agree with paragraph 2 but not the first one, regardless of Christmas's origins as a pagan festival it became a Christian festival under Roman Emperor Constantine and so for almost 1700 years it has been a Christian festival.
Your midwinter festival & Christmas should be able to co-exist, if you are into Christianity and all it entails, celbrate Christmas to your hearts desire.
If you are into sun-worshiping (As the holy Roman Empire was pre-Constantine) then howl at the moon (or whatever sun-worshippers do) during the Winter Solstice, to your hearts content.
As with most modern day festivals they draw traditions from more than one original source but if you are really keen on keeping them seperate, due to the movement in Calendars the dates are now 3/4 days apart in the northern hemisphere, so you can do both!

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 9:41 AM

The church should be delighted that people still want to get married in them and maintain some connection, given the way attendances are dropping. And most priests seem to agree, only the fundamentalists seem to have a problem with it. Much better to maintain the connection voluntary through marriages and christenings that the effective blackmailing through the schooling system which is happening all over Ireland.

Attendances have stayed pretty steady to be honest. You have completely missed my point though and I don't know what priests "you know".

I agree we should go back to original meaning of Christmas time - the pagan winter solstice festivals, and their traditions of logs, trees, holly, misletoe. Happy midwinter one and all.

Christmas and the winter solstice are 2 completely different things, as I am sure you know after your quick google

Actually, reading the link that Paul provided for the basis for his rant, the ad wasn't even banned - RTE said veritas should run it past the BCI to see whether it complied with the legislation and veritas didn't bother their hole and changed it instead. PC Gone Mad indeed

Thats strange, I just reclicked on the link and that last paragraph wasn't there.

MagicMe, I would respect you far more than most for that, plus barbados would be way better to get married in!!!

**Magicme** · 07/12/2007, 9:45 AM

Thanks Paul. Next time I want to get married at Mountain Lake Resort in Virginia, USA. Yup, home of Dirty Dancing! Poor sap I convince to join me on that jaunt!

**MyTown** · 07/12/2007, 9:45 AM

Lectures on hypocrisy from a Roscommon man who purports christian beliefs but who has a track record of avowed hatred for Galwegians on this forum?

Unless of course the three wise men were originally from Roscommon, which would really push the per capita IQ for that region over all known records.

Relax Paul. A very Happy Christmas to you and yours whether they're in Knockcroghery or Knightsbridge, Keadue or Kings Cross, Elphin or Elephant & Castle.

(It's a little known fact that the three wise men were originally from Galway, and that when Herod sent the troops out to look for them they settled around the Kepak facility in Athleague

)

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by MyTown

Lectures on hypocrisy from a Roscommon man who purports christian beliefs but who has a track record of avowed hatred for Galwegians on this forum?

Unless of course the three wise men were originally from Roscommon, which would really push the per capita IQ for that region over all known records.

Relax Paul. A very Happy Christmas to you and yours whether they're in Knockcroghery or Knightsbridge, Keadue or Kings Cross, Elphin or Elephant & Castle.

(It's a little known fact that the three wise men were originally from Galway, and that when Herod sent the troops out to look for them they settled around the Kepak facility in Athleague)

Theres nothing wrong with those people who get upset with the names of Teddy Bears.

Thanks MyTown, but thats the thing what exactly are you wishing me, are you wishing me what you believe as christmas or what I believe as christmas?!

Whatever it is though, I do appreciate

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Christmas and the winter solstice are 2 completely different things, as I am sure you know after your quick google

Yeah, it's been obvious for a long time that Jesus was actually born in September. Christians hijacked all the pagan festivals...

**endabob1** · 07/12/2007, 10:16 AM

I think Hijacked is the wrong word, Christitanity flourished under the Romans and rather than change the festival dates they simply changed the reason for celebrations. This is almost 2000 years ago we're talking about, things were slightly different!!

Paul, I'm with Magime on the wedding score, I got married in a civil service on a wine estate in South Africa, absolutely stunning. I don't go to mass, I don't believe in God so it would have hugely hypocritical of me to get married in a church, My poor old Mam had a bit of trouble with it but she just said "it's your life and your day so you do what's right for you".

**Magicme** · 07/12/2007, 10:29 AM

I do believe in God and angels etc, just not organised religions. I follow my own path.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 07/12/2007, 10:32 AM

I'm one of the "gloves are off" atheists on this site. I think much of the story of Christ and Christianity is of dubious provenance and probably made up as they were going along by a number of characters starting with his Ma.

...BUT - I'll set up a Christmas tree on Saturday (once the house is cleaned down), I'll put a (highly improbable) wooden stable that my Dad made decades ago at the base of it and I'll put into it figurines of the Mam, the ..erm ... step-Dad, the donkey and bull, and the three wise men (seemingly Mary and Joe hung around in the stable for the three to four years it'd have taken the three wise men to get to them.) We'll not put the wee baba into his manger until Christmas Eve though and I'll let my (unbaptised) 2 year old do that job. Charming and endearing tradition. that's all.

**MyTown** · 07/12/2007, 10:45 AM

Lionel: Happy Dawkins to You just doesn't have that festive ring to it I'm afraid. If you're dad was handy with the hammer & chisel, you have soooooo much in common with the founder of my religion. Are you sure you're not just in denial?

Paul: I'm wishing you you're kind of Christmas. I'm a practicing catholic, as in practicing - not perfect.

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by endabob1

I think Hijacked is the wrong word, Christitanity flourished under the Romans and rather than change the festival dates they simply changed the reason for celebrations. This is almost 2000 years ago we're talking about, things were slightly different!!

What have the romans ever done for us? Just because the romans were doing it, doesn't mean the Celts automatically followed through. Sure we still (just about) have Wren Day which was all part of the midwinter festival.

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

They castigate the church, when suits, but on the other hand, xmas etc

Meant to say earlier, referring to it as xmas in a pro church rant???

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 11:44 AM

What have the romans ever done for us? Just because the romans were doing it, doesn't mean the Celts automatically followed through. Sure we still (just about) have Wren Day which was all part of the midwinter festival.

Well, on the topic of not knowing what is and isn't there is no proof that we are celts or to be more specific that "celts" originated where everyone believed, so unless you can claim bloodline to tuatha dé danann or fir blog or one of the other 3 settlers to ireland yer rambling.

Meant to say earlier, referring to it as xmas in a pro church rant???

mad busy at work today!! shorter, simple as

**Schumi** · 07/12/2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by endabob1

regardless of Christmas's origins as a pagan festival it became a Christian festival under Roman Emperor Constantine and so for almost 1700 years it has been a Christian festival.

And now it's become a consumerist buying festival for the last few decades. Follow whichever tradition you want.