Tour de France

**WeAreRovers** · 27/07/2006, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by finlma

Read Paul Kimmage's Rough Ride. I know there are people on here that dislike him but he is certain of that fact and continues to say it.

I wouldn't count Paul Kimmage's bitter rantings as a source to confirm that "the majority of riders in the tour are up to their eyes in drugs."

KOH

**NY Hoop** · 27/07/2006, 4:38 PM

Kimmage is bitter alright but to say Le Tour is drug free is ridiculous.

I love the sport and hope Landis hasnt gone to the dark side but............

KOH

**WeAreRovers** · 27/07/2006, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

to say Le Tour is drug free is ridiculous.

Who said that? I was just pointing out the equally ridiculous they're all on drugs statement.

KOH

**Aberdonian Stu** · 27/07/2006, 4:44 PM

When they test for drugs they don't test for ther drug itself they test for trace elements.

The level required to make a positive test is far above what the body is capable of producing naturally (so theoretically if you cheat only a little you'll get away with it) this is in order to guarantee that there is no doubt it's artificial.

I seriously doubt Landis took much, if anything, on the day as he would have known he would have delivered a positive test were he to do so. Generally the regimen of someone on performance enhancing drugs ends a certain amount of time before competition so as to reduce the chance of recording a positive test.

The best example of why this is done is Ben Johnson who had completed his regimen but panicked after losing to Carl Lewis in the 1988 Zurich meet and took some more (though he maintained it wasn't stananazol). Had he not had the top up he would most likely have recorded a clean test in Seoul.

**Macy** · 28/07/2006, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Landis "bonked" on stage 16 and recovered for 17. Not strange at all and not any indicator of drug-use.

Aye it was hunger knock on stage 16, brought about by being isolated and not getting the necessary food and fluids. You've also got to take into account the strategy of Telecom and CSC on stage 17 - which many of those so quick to put the boot in haven't (after hearing Kimmage's bitter rants on any media outlet that would take the untc he couldn't have even watched the stage let alone "known" that he was doping)

On the test that Landis has failed, the new lower limits has caught a few out over the last few years, but there is a test that's fairly conclusive as to whether it's a naturally high ratio or a prescription one.

**NY Hoop** · 28/07/2006, 1:49 PM

Kimmage went berserk last night saying "There's no miracles in sport"

It's a miracle he can stand up with the weight of the chips on his shoulders.

Landis' website down. Hope its just a natural high level of testosterne but.........

KOH

**strangeirish** · 28/07/2006, 2:25 PM

According to one of the US News reports last night, the acceptable ratio's for testosterone are 1:1,2:1 and a high of 3:1. They are claiming that his ratio was 11:1, based on the results of his test! Also, Landis did a phone interview from an undisclosed location in Europe and claimed that he is not guilty of cheating and asked that the public wait 'till all the facts are in.

**drinkfeckarse** · 28/07/2006, 2:37 PM

Irrespective of Landis' guilt or not, wouldn't it make a nice change if drug cheats just admitted it straight away?

It seems every time someone gets caught taking performance enhancing drugs they always request the B sample be tested and maintain their innocence throughout no matter how bad the situation looks.

**finlma** · 28/07/2006, 2:45 PM

I hope Landis is exposed as the cheat he is and the Tour is given to the deserved winner Periero.

People can call Kimmage bitter but he's calling a spade a spade - simple as that. I'd take Kimmage's word above any of the sports intellectuals on here spouting their non-existant expertise.

**wws** · 28/07/2006, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by finlma

I hope Landis is exposed as the cheat he is and the Tour is given to the deserved winner Periero.

People can call Kimmage bitter but he's calling a spade a spade - simple as that. I'd take Kimmage's word above any of the sports intellectuals on here spouting their non-existant expertise.

Periero!?!

sure he's hepped up on Goof Balls!

**strangeirish** · 28/07/2006, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by finlma

I'd take Kimmage's word above any of the sports intellectuals on here spouting their non-existant expertise.

Who's claiming to be an expert?

**Dodge** · 28/07/2006, 3:09 PM

I'd take Landis over ANY spanish cyclist as being honest. And I don't even care if he is.

BTW Kimmage's writings about cycling are more to do with his failure in the sport than any real credible evidence. The French paper L'Equipe used the same strategy when Armstong kept on destroying all their heroes. "The only reason he/they are beating us/me is they/he is using drugs" Bitter ****ing ****** (and **** journalist too)

**wws** · 28/07/2006, 3:09 PM

ehm

didnt several teams face criminal proceedings in France/Italy

it was the civil authorities who busted a few dopers in the past

**Dodge** · 28/07/2006, 3:10 PM

Oh and one more thing, the reason Landis could recover so well this year was the lack on control in the peleton. No team dominated like in previous years and he was allowed gain those 7 minutes. If CSC were any use, Pereiro would've won by 10-12 minutes

**wws** · 28/07/2006, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

BTW Kimmage's writings about cycling are more to do with his failure in the sport than any real credible evidence. The French paper L'Equipe used the same strategy when Armstong kept on destroying all their heroes. "The only reason he/they are beating us/me is they/he is using drugs" Bitter ****ing ****** (and **** journalist too)

thats BS dodge

kimmage doesnt even write about cycling - he doesnt even watch it anymore

radio shows and all ask him to talk about it now with the fresh controversy cos of his background

cyclists do take a cocktail of stuff to keep goin.....same as Italian footballers

**pete** · 28/07/2006, 6:01 PM

I believe in the US performance enhancing drugs have been moved up a few categories of drugs & can face 2 year jail term for supplying just like other recreational drugs. I think this aimed at hormones for body building & the like.

**monutdfc** · 29/07/2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

If CSC were any use, Pereiro would've won by 10-12 minutes

CSC is Sastre's team, Pereiro rides for Caisse d'Epargne

**Dodge** · 29/07/2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by wws

thats BS dodge
kimmage doesnt even write about cycling - he doesnt even watch it anymore

How is it BS, He has written on cycling and it is IMO based largely on his failings.

Originally Posted by totalfootball

What sort of prejudiced crap is that?

--
Oh boy! So if some Spaniard cheats it's terrible, but if an American does it, well that's just OK.

Read what I said again. IMO Landis is MORE LIKELY to be clean than any of the top Spanish cyclists. Its not prejudiced, its based on the fact that (both in real and percentage terms) more Spanish cyclists have been found guilty than any other nation. I don't care if landis is clean and I don't care if Periero or Sastre are clean. Makes not one bit of difference to my opinion of any of them or cycling in general.

ps good spot monutd, but you know what I meant