Clearly it should be no problem for a team that had a Premier licence last season now get a less strict 1st division licence but then again this is the FAI...Originally Posted by hoopy
We had no licence last season if you remember. And instead of kicking us out they deducted us 8 points. Another FAI/eL fudge. BTW we'd have no problem securing a Premier licence this year and if the rules were properly enforced it would be a one team league.
DvB is correct in that last years TCC will suffice this year. Why do we bother?
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
I think this might be a slight on the efforts being put in by the other eircom league clubs, we all acknowledge and support the efforts in restoring Shamrock Rovers to its former glory days, and salute the individuals prepared to dip into their own pockets to help the cause. Lord knows every other club in the country would love to have that as a back up.
I accept that some clubs do not take the licencing seriously enough, and just do enough to pass the process. Others are on top of things completely, and for them it is not enough to just pass the licence, they must also be running their affairs correctly, and put a large effort into the licence application process.
I can honestly say that as far as Dublin City are concerned this is one of the most important things that the club does each and every year. We take it extremely seriously and have devoted a large amount of time over the last four or five months to ensuring that we are 100% compliant at the first stage. We are confident we will be awarded a licence first time around.
I presume Revenue and your creditors think the same about you
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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As long as the EL apply the same principles to every other club going forward and take similar action, then no, you weren't hard done by, other than being unfortunate enough that you were the first to be caught. What Rovers did re the accounts was basically corporate fraud, as opposed to a simple oversight.
However, based on past experiences its hard to have confidence that the rules will be applied consistently in future.
BTW the fact that the points deduction was not provided for is a bit of a red herring. If the League had stuck to the rules Rovers wouldn't have been permitted to play in the EL at all last season.
i think the point the hoops on this thread are trying to make, is that if the league had stuck to the rules, most, if not all, clubs wouldn't have been permitted to play in the EL at all last season. or the coming season for that matter.
why should we pay our tax on time, in full, and it appears nearly all of the rest not? why should we be the only EL club with the correct tax cert and see the el change the rules for the other 21 clubs?
and bear in mind we approached the el to point out the licencing issue last year and they were initially happy to ignore it. only in FAI land is integrity a relegatable offence!!!
we are within our rights to be ****ed off in div 1 on a technicality that appears to no longer be an issue.
If you count the same cert used in the 2005 application, which is being allowed again in the new one.
The tax cert can date from 31/10/2004. Ironically Rovers could have submitted the same on as before the examinership and still passed.
This is correct, but the fact is the expiry date on the cert (yes they do have expiry dates) must be after the application date 31/10/05, so anyone having problems with the tax man will probably have a more recent cert.
I think the Application for licences should take place a lot earlier, the new form and manual should be available by mid march or april, and the deadline for applications should be sometime in june or july. Giving the results in August.
I don't see and problem having the details six months older at the start of the season, any irregularities will be shown up the following year, so clubs will be aware that any things they let slip will come back to bite them.
so you dont consider it to be a fudge?
And everyone else is within their rights to be ****ed off that your continued overspending kept you in the premier ahead of other more well balanced clubs for a fair few years without any sort of punishment. Im amy other league in europe you'd have been docked 10-15 points for the financial mess you were in.
And as you were playing without the license at all, maybe you can think yorself lucky you're still in the league at all and stop complaining about technicalities.
Trust me, pats fans know all to well about being "robbed" by technicalities. Complaining that everyone else was at it gets you nowhere....
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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Oh sweet Jesus. IIRC an audit was done of all other clubs and despite Dolan's bluster no one else was cheating apart from Pats. In this case we are NOT complaining about the 8 point deduction or the subsequent relegation, we just want fairness across the board. Just like Pats got.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
Complaining that everyone else was at it got you nowhere because simply everyone else wasnt at it !!Trust me, pats fans know all to well about being "robbed" by technicalities. Complaining that everyone else was at it gets you nowhere....Dolan pushed and pushed and eventually got what he wanted only for Pats to be found out a 2nd time ...
You couldnt make it up...
As for Rovers I think the 8 points deduction was stupid. I agree there is no rule stating a points deduction can happen so the FAI should have used the rule that was in place and rightfully sent you to Division 1. I think you got lucky with only 8 points but then thats just me.
As for this years licences, how come Rovers fans seem to know that the other 21 league clubs would not get a licence if rules were followed? How can you know what other clubs submitted? As Im a Shels fan would you mind telling me where Shels fail in the licence process and how you got the information?
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
www.ssdg.ie
Rooney's report found that several players played unregistered. He get shafted by the FAI as well.
Oh and BTW I've never claimed we didn't deserve that punishment but if people are going to claim it was a "technicality" on your side than I'll do the same on mine.
The point I'm making is that Rovers deserve to be in the first division.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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Not arguing with that one Dodge, we can thank Collins, Maguire etc for that one. And I never, ever claimed that Maguire and co's shoddy attempt at fraud was a "technicality", personally I think the cnuts should be in jail.
The point I'm making is that Rovers deserve to be in the first division.
My only point is that the licencing should be transparent, fair and equitable. Only then can we talk about improving the league. On that basis I have some sympathy for Pats over Marneygate. Despite the fact that no-one else got caught, it would be foolish in the extreme to think that no-one else was at it.
It's not going to happen though, it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. See Higgins post above for the usual "How do you know Shels won't get a licence? Our application is all above board blah blah."
As far as I'm concerned, the League and the FAI will never sort this out and it'll be up to the Revenue to stop this once and for all. They've set up a compliance unit for sports and a number of clubs have already been visited. Although Higgins et al will deny to the rooftops that they are in trouble with the Revenue. Some of us know otherwise.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
Some of us have been saying that for the last two years, never mind the twelve months.
The Licensing Process has been a fudge since the very beginning and lost a great deal of credibility long before the issue regarding Rovers came to light.
Licensing was compromised in year one when some details of a certain clubs reasons for failing initially were leaked on the Saturday mrning before the committee had even finished.
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"It's time for the FAI to grow up." John O'Donoghue, Minister for Sport, RTE , Sunday 7 Nov 2004
Not true. The only reasons we missed out on our licence in the first instance last time were minor technicalities including that they forgot to put my address and phone number on the forms! Doh!
Not all clubs are ducking and diving. Some of us do have our tax certs in order and are meeting most if not all criteria.
Can you use copy and paste???
Where did you pull out that quote ?? Would you mind reading it back as you didnt understand it the first time
I want to know where shels are failing to meet the required standards.
Now here it is again because I would still like to know.
As for this years licences, how come Rovers fans seem to know that the other 21 league clubs would not get a licence if rules were followed? How can you know what other clubs submitted? As Im a Shels fan would you mind telling me where Shels fail in the licence process and how you got the information?
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
www.ssdg.ie
Lets turn the question around. Are you in possession of enough information to state unequivocally that Shels have submitted all the required information AND more importantly that the information contained in it is materially true, fair and correct?Can you use copy and paste???
Where did you pull out that quote ?? Would you mind reading it back as you didnt understand it the first time
I want to know where shels are failing to meet the required standards.
Now here it is again because I would still like to know.
As for this years licences, how come Rovers fans seem to know that the other 21 league clubs would not get a licence if rules were followed? How can you know what other clubs submitted? As Im a Shels fan would you mind telling me where Shels fail in the licence process and how you got the information?
I didn't think so.
Beyond that anything is rumours and heresay.
However, it is on fairly public record, for example, that the Revenue are "puzzled" by some of the low declared incomes and PRSI payments by some EL clubs, when compared with average salaries and standards of living. Hence them setting up a special unit to investigate.
Unless there is enforcement of the licensing requirements by the EL the whole process will continue to be a farce.
Higgens' point is that several people have said here that Shamrock Rovers are the only club in compliance. He only wants more information on that point. He's admitted that he has no knowledge on the 22 license applications and he wonders how some people here say they do.
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