'Loyalists ask us to respect their flag as they burn everyone else's?': http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ne...215221501.html
Why are such national flags being burned? Are they being lazily associated with Catholicism or is it just a case of crass any-foreign-flag-will-do xenophobia?International flags found on top of loyalist bonfires in Northern Ireland this week have reportedly included: the Irish flag, the Kenyan flag, the Indian flag, the Polish flag, the Mexican flag, the Gay Pride flag and for good measure I suppose Ivory Coast flag.
But what on Earth did the Ivory Coast do to offend loyalism? That's the unlikely question we must ask ourselves having just learned that their flag is adorning a loyalist bonfire this week.
One Belfast bonfire even featured a statue of the Virgin Mary (that was later removed and handed to local Catholic priest Father Gary Donegan, before it could be engulfed).
So, that, I suppose.
All of this leads us to a question: what is going on with loyalism? Aren't the stresses and strains of modern life already challenging enough in this century without the need to offer annual widespread mortal insult to the people you otherwise don't ordinarily meet and don't know?
Why would loyalism intentionally set out to insult the people of the Ivory Coast? What on earth could that African nation have done to Northern Ireland? Or Mexico, for that matter? Or Poland? What insult has Poland offered loyalism?
Recall for a moment that the Northern Irish peace process was almost completely destabilized last year by the so-called 'respect our flag' movement and the widespread months long civil disturbances they caused.
Loyalism is asking us to respect its flag as it burns everyone else's? That takes a measure of self-defeating arrogance that you don't often see in life.
This was a photo my friend took overlooking the Fountain estate in the "City of Culture" on the eve of the Twelfth:
And I thought the following line from this story about Nigel Dodds being knocked unconscious during rioting after a parade was blocked was priceless:
"Police were attacked with ceremonial swords as well as missiles."
At least they were cultural about it...
Anyone else think that looks like a giant homemade Dalek?
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
these guys hate taighs, jews, muslins, blacks, papists, poles, Slovaks, Latvians, Lithuanians, French, Spanish, Italians but my god they love jesus christ
Long Live King Kenny
They also hate denims, chinos, tarpaulins and other materials as it chafes.
I advise anyone who wants a good laugh to watch Russia Today's coverage. I know that "news" has moved away from being news and trying to be balanced (or pretending to be), but when there is a group that is so unbalanced, how can you ask them "Well, put your side forward." Like any scum promoting hatred and violence, they should be deprived of the oxygen of media. Turn off the cameras, send in the heavy squad and soon they'll cop on. I've grown to feel the same way about "hoolies", if the police used live ammunition and the media refused to glorify them, Danny Dyer wouldn't be long in copping himself on.
Oh look some commentary on the issue of rioting:
http://www.krank.ie/category/opinion...y-of-loyalism/Originally Posted by krank.ie
So eh yeah, lemme know what ye think and share and retweet the hell out of it if ye must.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Basil McCrea on 'Respect for Flags': http://blogs.qub.ac.uk/compromiseaft...ect-for-flags/
Does the Union flag represent the United Kingdom or is it a marker in a sectarian battlefield? When the flag of the country hangs tattered from a lamppost, so does our society. When it is wrapped around someone during a riot or used to attack the police, it is defiled. In no other country would this be allowed.
The Union flag and the flags of all states should be treated with respect by Governments, politicians and individuals within society – the Union flag and the flag of other states are not and should not be used as tribal symbols.
This year there are more flags, bigger flags and more overtly challenging flags on the streets of Northern Ireland. The flying of UVF flags with the simple expedient of adding the number 1913 does not make them historical artefacts. What happened to the loyalism which took many risks to deliver peace?
The flying of flags in such a manner is an affront to the majority of citizens, most of whom support Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom. The flying of flags in such a manner is a form of intimidation, it is sectarian and yes, it does deter investment, it does destroy business and it does make a house harder to sell.
It is time for such flags to come down.
The 20th Century parties refuse to question those who put them up, let alone insist that they should be taken down, and in doing so they refuse to show the Union flag and other national flags the respect they deserve. When Paul Girvan believes it is acceptable to burn the flag of the Republic of Ireland on a bonfire, should we be surprised that the DUP refuses to stand up and call for the Union flag to be respected?
We have lost control of our public spaces to faceless individuals with no interest in a common future. When it is deemed acceptable to burn national flags and let them be used as markers of segregation, our society and democracy are in a bad place. The anonymous and prolonged flying of flags is a challenge to the rule of law, a challenge to a common future, a challenge to our community. We dare not ignore them!
The Life and Times Survey shows that 74% of the population do not support the flying of flags from lampposts in their neighbourhood. This ‘silent majority’ needs to make its voice heard. There is a need to reclaim the streets and help bring genuine civic pride back into disaffected communities. As Northern Ireland slides towards the hard-line the potential consequences of doing and saying nothing continues to grow. To live in a modern, tolerant and peaceful democracy is a privilege. It is not guaranteed. It is worth defending. It is worth voting for.
As the plot is well and truly lost, Willie Frazer arrives to court today dressed up as Abu Hamza with Bryson dressed up as... Actually, I have no idea what's going on with Bryson.
More comedy here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24294969
Loyalist campaigner Willie Frazer arrived at Belfast's Laganside court on Friday dressed as radical Muslim cleric Abu Hamza.
He was wearing a black robe, skullcap, a fake beard, an eye-patch and hooked hand.
Mr Frazer, 53, was protesting at being charged under legislation that, he claims, was brought in to deal with militant Islamic preachers.
He faces charges linked to union flag demonstrations in January.
Mr Frazer was accompanied by other prominent flag protesters, Jim Dowson and Jamie Bryson.
In a statement, he said the only people in the United Kingdom to be charged under these "hate preaching laws" have been peaceful Protestant/Christian protesters from Northern Ireland.
The loyalist, from Markethill, County Armagh, faces three charges of taking part in an un-notified public procession. He also faces a charge of obstructing traffic, possession of a prohibited weapon and encouraging or assisting an offence to be committed.
He is due to appear in court again next week.
Oul' Wullie just can't stop giving: http://m.u.tv/News/School-%E2%80%98I...5-a16348618fac
IRA HQ claim over school's Italian flag
A victims' campaigner has labelled a Co Tyrone primary school an IRA training ground, after mistaking an Italian flag outside the building for an Irish tricolour.
Willie Frazer hit out at St Patrick's Primary in Donaghmore, posting a picture of the school flying the flags of Poland, Turkey and Italy on Facebook.
Seeming to mistake the red in the Italian flag for orange and thinking it was an Irish flag, he commented: "This is a school in Tyrone flying the Irish flag on the school grounds why".
The 51-year-old founder of Families Acting for Innocent Relatives also claimed the school was "the junior headquarters of SF/IRA youth, or it may as well be".
I wounder do they also train the children in how to use weapons, for it seems they can do what they wont. [sic]
- Willie Frazer
The school was flying the flags as part of a European project, during which 11 teachers from the countries represented visited the school.
St Patrick's principal Dera Calahane expressed shock at "how vindictive and inciteful the comments were".
She said: "The comments made are inaccurate. The three flags on display were the Italian, Polish and Turkish national flags.
"These were flying as part of the welcome to our Comenius Partner Schools who were visiting at the time.
"It appears some individual has mistaken the Italian flag for the Irish flag. The school is currently taking legal advice and is bringing the matter to the PSNI."
Mrs Calahane added that, although the visiting teachers were not aware of the incident, she fears they could find out.
"I would hate to think that the school's relationship would be damaged," she added.
The flags have since been taken down by the school and the pictures have been removed from Facebook.
Mr Frazer further commented on the situation on the social networking site, posting a message which said: "The flag seen flying at this school is not the irish tricolour, and it may look very like it but i can asure people it is not. [sic]"
A PSNI spokesperson said police have spoken to those involved "in an attempt to resolve what appears to have been a misunderstanding regarding the flying of flags at the school".
That's soooo last year.
Ah, joke's on me. The date hadn't even registered with me. Saw it pop up on my Facebook newfeed this eve and just assumed it was recent.
Nearly 2 years lads. It's been great craic all the same.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Thought I'd post this here rather than start a new topic (or put it in the eligibility thread) as it relates to the matter of identity and also looks quite closely at the Protestant Ulster-Scots community of the Laggan district in Donegal, who have already been mentioned earlier in this thread. It's a project called Border Lives that documents the lives, experiences and stories of people who live and have lived by the border between the two jurisdictions on the island of Ireland. I'd known of the project but only yesterday did I come across their 'Other Laggan' video, which happens to cover the area along the Donegal-Derry border where I grew up and call home. It looks at community relations, the traditions of the area's significant Ulster-Scots minority and also has some discussion on the common practice of smuggling back in the day.
Originally Posted by Border LivesThere are five other videos besides 'The Other Laggan', each looking at a different locality along the border, including those areas between Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and the south. Just thought I'd post it here anyway as it might be of interest to any others whose lives were shaped by living by the border.Originally Posted by Joe Mahon
Willie Frazer has another Dublin march in the pipeline, assuming gardaí allow it to go ahead: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...uary-1.2092936
Originally Posted by Aine McMahon
I'd already mentioned I watched it here, but there's an interesting three-part documentary series on BBC iPlayer at the minute called 'Imagining Ulster' in which William Crawley explores the diverse history of the Ulster(-Scots) identity. (It was shown on BBC 2 over the past couple of weeks.) Just thought I'd post a few words and thoughts on it and some related stuff here.
It puts the unionist/loyalist and Ulster Protestant community's popular dismissal of their shared sense of Irishness primarily down to the IRA's northern campaign in the latter half of the twentieth century. They sought to strongly disassociate themselves from it and so their identification as British strengthened as Ulster society became more polarised. Obviously, this wasn't the only factor that had an influence on the changing of self-perceptions; the northern and southern states both played up socio-cultural/religious differences to serve their respective political goals from the outset of partition.
Prior to this, however, cross-identification was more frequent; Protestant Ulster-Scots men like James Orr at one time made up the membership of the United Irishmen, whilst the nineteenth century poet Thomas Beggs, in summing up the dual nationality felt by the Ulster-Scots, wrote:
I love my native land no doubt,
Attached to her through thick and thin,
Yet though I'm Irish all without,
I'm every item Scotch within.
Even the staunchly-unionist Newsletter greeted Queen Victoria upon her 1849 visit to Belfast with a hearty "Céad míle fáilte!" It's a great shame the two "sides" later became so entrenched in their perceived differences, thus making finding common ground so difficult.
From a personal/local perspective, some intriguing footage of an unnamed and unidentified border crossing in the 1920s featured:
It's pure guesswork here, but the terrain and form of the road and surroundings looks remarkably familiar to me from (if my suspicion is correct) having passed over it hundreds, if not thousands, of times throughout my life. I'm pretty sure it's the Donegal-Derry border crossing on the Letterkenny Road after the Mullennan Road/Nixon's Corner intersection (if going towards Donegal, as the camera is pointing) and before Killea, which is up a hill at the end of the long straight. This is how that section of road looks in the modern-day for comparison: https://goo.gl/maps/8R9pO
The house on the right has received a bit of a face-lift since, by the looks of things, but, otherwise, the shape of the gate and walls, trees and hedges all look almost identical. Down the road slightly, on the behind-side of the camera, was the site of a fairly major British army checkpoint/barricade installation during the Troubles that remained in place up until such border structures were dismantled as part of the peace process.
I had mentioned in my other post how Crawley spoke of Britain's secret offer to agree to a united Ireland in principle during the Second World War on the condition that the neutral south joined up with the Allies. De Valera rejected the offer, however, on the basis that there was no guarantee of unity and due to the fact that the practical reality would still have to have been agreed by the "representatives of the government of Éire and the government of Northern Ireland". I came across the following Wikipedia page whilst doing some further reading around this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_n...g_World_War_II
Finding out about the "Donegal Corridor" from this subsequent reading was something completely new to me. Indeed, its existence was also kept secret at the time.
Fascinating stuff.Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 19/03/2015 at 12:44 AM.
With thoughts of the border in mind, for some reason the notion of territorial ownership of Lough Foyle crossed my mind; I had a vague recollection that possession of Lough Foyle might have been under dispute between Ireland and the UK at some point in time, but had assumed that the Good Friday Agreement had cleared up outstanding matters on that front as far as the two states were concerned. I decided to investigate further, but, to my surprise, it transpires that the maritime boundaries in both Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough are still officially "under dispute". The general debate over the territorial ownership of the waters around the north was actually very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...rthern_Ireland
Lough Foyle's Wikipedia page contains the following info:Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Lough Foyle is a disputed territory between the Republic of Ireland and the UK After the Partition of Ireland in 1922 both sides claimed that it was in their own territory. Although this dispute is still on going there are currently no negotiations as to its ownership. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office underlined its view on 2 June 2009 that all of Lough Foyle is in the United Kingdom, a spokesperson stating: 'The UK position is that the whole of Lough Foyle is within the UK. We recognise that the Irish Government does not accept this position...There are no negotiations currently in progress on this issue. The regulation of activities in the Lough is now the responsibility of the Loughs Agency, a cross-border body established under the Belfast Agreement of 1998.'
I saw episodes one and three. Watchable enough but does he get a biscuit for every mention of the absurd Ulster-Scots? It's not a language, just Brendan Rodgers projected back into history
Ye can have Lough Foyle and both its shorelines.
Etc etc.
Not quite a flag issue but clearly another example of the apartheid and cultural erasure of Unionists:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0724/716882-derry/Originally Posted by RTÉ
And summat from BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-...-west-33647867
Last edited by BonnieShels; 24/07/2015 at 9:10 AM.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Nationalists can't sneeze without being accused of sectarianism by some in the unionist community.
I always understood that only the queen could authorise an official city name-change, which is why the city has a different official name from the city council; the council can democratically vote on its own name.
Stop, man: take a breath of life and show a little respect
It's a predictable overblown response to a predictable cliched stunt.
Either legislation (from WM or Stormont) or 'royal prerogative' (ie a Windsor reads out a speech written by a Tory minister) are needed to rename the city. Or we could redraw the border around it, I suppose.
I'd reclassify it as a biggish town personally.
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