AIPL Proposal - How would you do it?

[Louth4sam]

For me a Premier 16 team play home and away. Personally i'd prefer winter football. The teams would be Linfield, Glentoran, Derry City, Cliftonville, Dundalk, Drogheda(although these may be put into the Irish Basketball association considering their style of football), Bohs, Pats, Shamrock Rovers, Bray, Waterford, Cork City, Limerick, Sligo & Galway. 3 Teams from Dublin and Belfast is enough at the moment.
we would then have a first consisting of the next best 16 teams- UCD, Harps, Cobh, Shels, Portadown, Ballymena etc. A straight 3 up/ 3 down but we may steal a play off style situation from England in the First division. The bottom team of this league will be immediately relegated.
A third tier to be set up on a provinicial basis where the winners will enter into a round robin league and the winners will qualify to the first.
Strict guidelines to be introduced to each club in relation to promotion, expenditure, wages. I would even go as far as cut the wage cap from 65% to 50% and enforce that a certain % of the remiander. Admin expenses not to exceed 5% of turnover. Directors loans would be abolished and all income to be made via gate receipts, shirt sales, donations, patron schemes so on and so forth. Also remortgaging of grounds, assests and disolution of fixed assets to have strict guidelines attached too.
Far fetched but i feel every club needs to be involved

I'd agree with all of that except the choice of teams, i think that teams should be chosen from their league positions. Probably 12 from Ireland and 4 from the North. I like your idea of not regionalising the 1st division. Would make it more competitive plus the teams in it should be able afford the extra travel expenses. If split in two you would have a far stronger 1st division south than first division north, unless you added teams like Dundalk, Finn harps, sligo to the northern first division.

[passinginterest]

Essential to the success of my first proposal would be increased monitoring of club finances and ground improvements. A salary cap would have to be strictly enforced and investments and donations strictly monitored. The clubs would be given the first two season to get their houses in order, with those failing to meet requirements being relegated or denied prize money. I think grounds could be upgraded all around with investment from the FAI and IFA (which might also secure long term prospects and keep property developers at bay), as well as this I'm sure cross border organisations and both Governments would be keen to see the idea succeed and may make funds available (I'd imagine this would only be the case in an inclusive league, unlike the Platinum One proposal).

[Big Ears]

The league wouldn't begin till all prospective sides have their financial house in order and have adequate facilities .

Drogheda's stadium is not up to standard and although I know it's very unfortunate that they're having such trouble with building a ground I wouldn't be in favour of allowing United Park to be used .

I'm not sure other clubs will be up to the off the field standard required anyway so Drogheda may have their stadium built before that changes or they would have to groundshare for a little while .

The 65% wage cap should definitely be kept, it helps stop clubs from being stupidly ambitious or at least going the wrong way about being stupidly ambitious .

Promotion and Relegation should be open from day one, which is why I feel we may need a few years to get everything right off the field as clubs are going to be going straight up after the first season .

a 10 team AIPL consisting of the top 4 IL sides from the previous season and the top 6 LOI sides from previous season . This would likely give us 5 Northern teams and 5 teams from the Republic as Derry would presumely finish in the LOI top 6 . Even if they didn't the difference in strength between the leagues mean that there should be more LOI sides .

Under that you would have a IFA Premier division and a FAI Premier division .
There would be further regional leagues under this, with the A Championship becoming the new first division and more junior clubs encouraged to join .

Several ways you could do promotion/relegation . But for me all of them involve 2 clubs up and 2 clubs down, or at least the possibility of 2 up 2 down .

-IFA Champions and FAI Champions go straight up, 9th and 10th place teams go straight down .

-IFA and FAI winners play off, the winner of that play-off goes straight up and the loser plays the 9th place team in the AIPL . The 10th place AIPL team is obviously relegated .

-This one is possibly a bit too much but it would create quite a lot of interest with the play-offs . Winner of IFA and FAI premier divisions play-off , the winner of that tie is automatically promoted . The runner up from the IFA and FAI Premier divisions play-off with the winner of that tie playing the loser of the first play-off .



So if we take the top 4 sides from last years IL Premier division and make the big assumption that the top 6 sides from the LOI will stay as they are, we would get(if it was to magically happen next season) .

Bohemians, St.Pats, Cork City, Derry City, Drogheda United, Sligo Rovers, Linfield, Glentoran, Cliftonville and Lisburn Distillery .

That leaves Shamrock Rovers, Bray, UCD, Finn Harps Galway, Cobh Ramblers in the FAI Premier Division along with the 10 first division sides .


The AIPL would have a summer season, and would look to eventually expand to 16 clubs when the standard of football is good enough to retain the general publics interest(that's if the new league has even caught their interest in the first place) . Standard wise I would have had no problem with a 12 team league but it leaves the problem of playing each other 3 times a season which isn't a great system .

[GavinZac]

For people advocating large (16-20) leagues, how many of those do you see as being professional?

[Student Mullet]

For people advocating large (16-20) leagues, how many of those do you see as being professional?

As many as can afford it.

[pete]

First off the starting point here is to expand the Setanta cup and see how it works in generating interest over say, 5 season, 6 groups of 4, 12 north and 12 south (with a seeding system based on recent league positions etc.) with home and away ties and then 1/4 finals etc. bulk of prize money distributed to top 8 clubs and something for all participants. if this works out then look at rolling out an AIL.

The Setanta Cup has enough pointless games already without adding more. The quality does not exist in the IL. We already treat some of the Setanta Cup group games as pre season.

[sullanefc]

For people advocating large (16-20) leagues, how many of those do you see as being professional?

Do they have to be all professional??

[GavinZac]

Do they have to be all professional??

Personally I think any new league has to be 100% professional. That's just my view, I'm interested in what other people's views are as to how many.

[superfrank]

As many as can afford it.

Agreed.

[superfrank]

Personally I think any new league has to be 100% professional. That's just my view, I'm interested in what other people's views are as to how many.

There's only a few clubs that can be sustained without being drip-fed by benefactors in the background. We should aim to have clubs that can sustain themselves on their gates, sponsorship, merchandise, etc.

That's my view.

[jebus]

Personally I think any new league has to be 100% professional. That's just my view, I'm interested in what other people's views are as to how many.

If we went with a 16 team league I would propose that no fewer than 10 would have to be full time, with the other 6 following suit in the next three seasons. We should be looking for teams to at least have a full time coaching staff, with a minimum of 7 players full time by the second season, with the majority of clubs gone full time at the initiation. Easier said than done I know, but if you're going to try and promote this as a league for barstoolers to become interested in than it has to be able to rival at least the SPL

[GavinZac]

Easier said than done I know, but if you're going to try and promote this as a league for barstoolers to become interested in than it has to be able to rival at least the SPL

The SPL only has 12 full time clubs?

[sullanefc]

Personally I think any new league has to be 100% professional. That's just my view, I'm interested in what other people's views are as to how many.

My problem with all the teams being professional is that if one of them gets relegated then they are in financial disaster. If you had a top half of professional teams and a bottom half of semi-pros trying to establish themselves and may turn pro in time. At least if a semi-pro team gets relegated then they won't have a load of full time contracts on their books in the first division.

IMO in a league you need to have 33-40 games for gate receipts to compete. Any less and you are behind similar sized clubs across the water who may want to pinch your players and offer them more money.

Options:
20 teams = 38 games - many meaningless games at the end
18 teams = 34 games - some meaningless games at the end
16 teams = 30 games - too few games
12 teams (eL style) = 33 games - playing each team 3 times is not ideal
12 teams (SPL style) = 38 games - repetitive??
10 teams = 36 games - definitely repetitive

I would either go with 18 teams or 12 teams (SPL style).

Which one would you have Gav??

[jebus]

The SPL only has 12 full time clubs?

I was more talking about rivalling the SPL in terms of all the teams being professional. Most barstoolers think the SPL is a joke, and if we're seen as being anything lower than the SPL than they won't be interested

[GavinZac]

My problem with all the teams being professional is that if one of them gets relegated then they are in financial disaster. If you had a top half of professional teams and a bottom half of semi-pros trying to establish themselves and may turn pro in time.

Thats where we are now. Its not working.

IMO in a league you need to have 33-40 games for gate receipts to compete. Any less and you are behind similar sized clubs across the water who may want to pinch your players and offer them more money.

Options:
20 teams = 38 games - many meaningless games at the end
18 teams = 34 games - some meaningless games at the end
16 teams = 30 games - too few games
12 teams (eL style) = 33 games - playing each team 3 times is not ideal
12 teams (SPL style) = 38 games - repetitive??
10 teams = 36 games - definitely repetitive

I would either go with 18 teams or 12 teams (SPL style).
Which one would you have Gav??

In the immediate term I would go with 10. Yes, arguably it could be repetitive; however, I'd much rather be guaranteed playing Pats twice at home than watching the just-as-repetitive string of teams looking to come away from Turner's Cross with a plucky point.

After a few years if another 2 slots were opened up for teams who could go professional, that'd be ideal. That plus the new options in terms of cups and better progression in Europe should limit 'boredom'.

[sullanefc]

Thats where we are now. Its not working.


In the immediate term I would go with 10. Yes, arguably it could be repetitive; however, I'd much rather be guaranteed playing Pats twice at home than watching the just-as-repetitive string of teams looking to come away from Turner's Cross with a plucky point.

After a few years if another 2 slots were opened up for teams who could go professional, that'd be ideal.

Well that sounds logical, however, for that to work you need a strong and well supported first division. Otherwise the teams that get promoted will just be relegation fodder the following season, much like we have now.

That plus the new options in terms of cups and better progression in Europe should limit 'boredom'.

I presume you're thinking FAI cup, IFA cup, All Ireland Cup, League cup. While they would provide more games, the best teams will always get to the latter stages thus leaving out the weaker teams again. Or, some cups may be ignored by the bigger clubs as they will priorotise their goals. Depending on which ones offer most money/euro places etc.

[blackholesun]

I think the whole idea is a joke and based on wild speculation and alot of crazy assumptions. How the hell the gates are going to go up 50% back playing winter football I never know.

But I have to say, going by their Setanta and European games I think the Glens might struggle a bit to stay up . If they were relegated, then Linfield would loose alot of Derby income and might loose interest too. Linfield have a handy number up North at the moment where they won 1 or 2 major trophies most seasons. Could their fans / committee cope with being mid table also rans and maybe not being in Europe for several seasons in a row, which could easily happen?

bhs

[Macy]

Personally I think any new league has to be 100% professional. That's just my view, I'm interested in what other people's views are as to how many.

Being 100% sustainable is more important than it being 100% professional. If you use Shels as an example, I'd say they did more harm than good with the crash and burn compared to their footballing successes.

Thats where we are now. Its not working.

I really don't see the main issue being the difference between the full time clubs and the part time clubs. The P1 proposal includes Galway who are currently in the middle of showing they can't sustain full time football, whilst at the same time their full time team is showing it can't compete with several part time teams.

[jinxy lilywhite]

realisticly I don't think clubs should talk about professional football until they can average 5000 a game. until we start getting those figures in through the turnstiles then professional football isn't feasible

[Macy]

In the immediate term I would go with 10. Yes, arguably it could be repetitive; however, I'd much rather be guaranteed playing Pats twice at home than watching the just-as-repetitive string of teams looking to come away from Turner's Cross with a plucky point.

Just to come back to this point after looking at some of the other threads. In recent weeks we've had Cork fans giving out about Drogheda and Pats going to the cross and playing for a point. If anything, with a wider scope of teams with less to lose (both in terms of relegation and financially because of being full time) the football will be more open than it is now.