Time To Rethink On Summer Football

**renovater** · 28/11/2006, 7:49 PM

Well with the super league over and Castlebar Celtic has reclaim there crown. There will lay a more important issue once the league is dusted, where we all can take stock what is good or where can we improve on the game we call football.

Don’t get me wrong it was a brave decision under the Chairman of Donal Benson to introduce Summer Football in 1984, for all the right reasons. We the Clubs in Mayo League took the view under the leadership of Donal Benson that it was in the interest of promoting Summer Soccer.
So what was to be gain from summer football?

We would play on better surfaces.
Hope other leagues would follow
No postponements
Clubs would no longer rely duel players
Better attendances
Play at different times of the day or mid week

Now while all this sounds positive, it’s brought its own problems. For instance it wasn’t realised that the Clubs would be playing all year round. It has to be noted, that clubs are now finding it hard to get commitment from players... Who can blame them, when you see every other league at leased has a well earned brake.
As for attendances they become non existence, with so much more happening in the summer months. It even got to the stage when teams just wanted to play on Saturday evenings, so they could either attend another sporting occasion or some other social advent. One other major problem for clubs is holidays, weddings, and Stag nights or even weekends away.
The other misconception was that Mayo lead and others follow. This was a cu-d sac of our own making, which no other Junior League followed.
The Eircom League is now playing, but they will have a rethink at some stage. The one area which is causing them concern is the drop in attendances. Which at the end of the day will dictate as to whether? They continue to play from March –November.
Of course should we return to winter football mid week games won’t be taking place unless Clubs choose to floodlit there grounds, but then again playing in winter means our season starts in August and ends in May. Instead of all year round.
.
There are positives which we can now take from our 12 years away from our tradition football season that is we can now boast that we have come along way in upgrading our football grounds to highest standards. That should we return we would reduce the number of postponements and compete at the highest level and our clubs would be able to take brakes and keep our players. While during the summer months we would be able to restore our pitches in the growing season.
Another irony would be sorted out and that would allow players to play with U-21 teams without causing too much unrest which we had to put up with.

**CousinSylDolan** · 29/11/2006, 9:27 AM

All very interesting points...

I'm involved in Clare soccer and each year we have a 10 or 11 month season like most other counties. The main reason for this is weather causing matches to be posponed.

I am all for switching to summer soccer but the main sticking point is the Fai Junior, Oscar Traynor and other regional cups are played in winter. Therefore a change to summer soccer would make it a 12 month season for some. The only way forward imo is all leagues in Ireland change to summer soccer allowing all national/regional competitions to be changed also. If this happened I feel we would have more evening fixtures if needed and less postponments meaning an 8/9 month season.

Any other opinions from different leagues?????

**irishyop** · 29/11/2006, 4:28 PM

Very good post there renovater.

Having played in both the 2 eras to be honest I still feel there is as many if not more matches called off than there was when the Winter season was been played.
The biggest issue is now that amatuer players are now been asked for an 11 1/2 months of commitment, some without winning a medal chance. If you get your rewards with a trophy it is a great boost to keep going but to get maybe 3 weeks off in the season it really is not wonder the time of players playing up to their mid 30's is rapidly disappering.

The better surfaces one is a good one, back in May/June we played a game which was called off after 30 minutes due to a flooded pitch!
Castlebar Celtics main pitch was unplayable for 6-8 weeks mid season in order to facility improvements which have to be done in "the growing season"
Also Partry (I think) we in a similar situation with their new pitch.

I don't get the Duel players one though as the GAA season runs at the exact same time.

Attendences, bar a few Sunday matches are affected due to holidays, GAA matches, nice weather, World cup etc etc

The ability to play mid weeks is a definate advantage but this would only apply to at a max 10 matches in the season.

The U18 players who are playing with the Senior teams are now also playing 12 months of football as the underage lads started training for their season, when we were finished ours, even though they had played a full season with us as well as trying to study for their exams.

It is hard to call, personally I would prefer it either way, for the reason that the summer is free to play GAA, arrange your hols when you want and work away outside without having to cut your day short to go training or to matches.
Then again playing up to your ass in ****e pitches does not appeal either, it does not encourage good football and does not encourage lads to turn up for training when it is raining outside and the CL is on the box.

**Thunderblaster** · 29/11/2006, 11:18 PM

Any one read Kelly's Corner today?

**Hoops 1967** · 30/11/2006, 8:36 AM

I have to say that I would love to see summer football in Limerick.
Playing during the winters months when you have cold, damp, windy, raining/hailstones, muddy pitches to deal with is not one bit appealling and it does not lead to good football been played.
But players been on hoildays, etc during the summer is a valid one.
Maybe the solution is to have a 2 month winter break during december and january, not many matches get played during these months anyway.

**parkfan** · 30/11/2006, 8:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hoops 1967

I have to say that I would love to see summer football in Limerick.
Playing during the winters months when you have cold, damp, windy, raining/hailstones, muddy pitches to deal with is not one bit appealling and it does not lead to good football been played.
But players been on hoildays, etc during the summer is a valid one.
Maybe the solution is to have a 2 month winter break during december and january, not many matches get played during these months anyway.

here!!!! here!!!!! No problem with it at all.. should have been done years ago..

**irishyop** · 30/11/2006, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

Any one read Kelly's Corner today?

I see he is of the same thinking of Renovator....

**renovater** · 30/11/2006, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

Any one read Kelly's Corner today?

Kelly corner is short on vision has no bearing what I have written you can't start a season and closed it down for six weeks just to keep Castlebar Celtic happy.
All I am offering is both sides of the debate. Its up to the clubs if they wish to change from summer to winter which is there right.All I am interested is that clubs debate the matter and come to a decission that is excepted by all concern.
In an ideal world it would be great if all junior leagues and external competitions were played in summer then that would solve our 12 month season. But that doesn't solve other leagues situations due to some clubs don't own there own pitches like we do in Mayo.
In 1984 we made the choice for change, and at the time was a good one,but I think its time for rethink.As other leagues won't change.

**renovater** · 30/11/2006, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by irishyop

Very good post there renovater.

Having played in both the 2 eras to be honest I still feel there is as many if not more matches called off than there was when the Winter season was been played.
The biggest issue is now that amatuer players are now been asked for an 11 1/2 months of commitment, some without winning a medal chance. If you get your rewards with a trophy it is a great boost to keep going but to get maybe 3 weeks off in the season it really is not wonder the time of players playing up to their mid 30's is rapidly disappering.

The better surfaces one is a good one, back in May/June we played a game which was called off after 30 minutes due to a flooded pitch!
Castlebar Celtics main pitch was unplayable for 6-8 weeks mid season in order to facility improvements which have to be done in "the growing season"
Also Partry (I think) we in a similar situation with their new pitch.

I don't get the Duel players one though as the GAA season runs at the exact same time.

Attendences, bar a few Sunday matches are affected due to holidays, GAA matches, nice weather, World cup etc etc

The ability to play mid weeks is a definate advantage but this would only apply to at a max 10 matches in the season.

The U18 players who are playing with the Senior teams are now also playing 12 months of football as the underage lads started training for their season, when we were finished ours, even though they had played a full season with us as well as trying to study for their exams.

It is hard to call, personally I would prefer it either way, for the reason that the summer is free to play GAA, arrange your hols when you want and work away outside without having to cut your day short to go training or to matches.
Then again playing up to your ass in ****e pitches does not appeal either, it does not encourage good football and does not encourage lads to turn up for training when it is raining outside and the CL is on the box.

It was thought as part of summer football would reduce duel players which was very true as some clubs had alot of Gaa players playing with them in the winter.As a result of summer football less Gaa players played football as they were comitted to there Gaa teams.

**Thunderblaster** · 01/12/2006, 4:53 PM

There is a feeling out there by some quarters that underage football up to U.14s remain at summer football and the remainder revert to winter.

**renovater** · 01/12/2006, 9:49 PM

Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

There is a feeling out there by some quarters that underage football up to U.14s remain at summer football and the remainder revert to winter.

Sorry thunder I think you are missing the point of the debate.I am not concerned with underage football nor does my thread. My concerns are the state of junior football in Mayo.I not sure that you have relised or not.That the standards of the game is in fall out, and this is due to the amount of games and a commitment of players to be force to play 12 mts of the year is having its toll.

**short_frank** · 01/12/2006, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by renovater

Sorry thunder I think you are missing the point of the debate.I am not concerned with underage football nor does my thread. My concerns are the state of junior football in Mayo.I not sure that you have relised or not.That the standards of the game is in fall out, and this is due to the amount of games and a commitment of players to be force to play 12 mts of the year is having its toll.

I have read what has been written so far and frankly I cannot see how you can say that the standards of the game are in fall out. The football has never been better and the playing conditions have never been better.
I cannot understand why people keep coming up with this debate. I played in "the good old days" and I remember having to drag my feet out of mud as I ran on some pitches or having to keep massaging my hands to keep the circulation going in the frost. Whether we play in winter or summer we will have matches cancelled for various reasons so that debate doesn't stand up.

Now while all this sounds positive, it’s brought its own problems. For instance it wasn’t realised that the Clubs would be playing all year round. It has to be noted, that clubs are now finding it hard to get commitment from players... Who can blame them, when you see every other league at leased has a well earned brake.
As for attendances they become non existence, with so much more happening in the summer months.

Again I think the rose tinted glasses are out. The attendences in the past were never anything to shout about.

It even got to the stage when teams just wanted to play on Saturday evenings, so they could either attend another sporting occasion or some other social advent. One other major problem for clubs is holidays, weddings, and Stag nights or even weekends away.

All these things happen in winter as well as summer, admittedly some to a lesser extent but they happen all the same.

The other misconception was that Mayo lead and others follow. This was a cu-d sac of our own making, which no other Junior League followed.
The Eircom League is now playing, but they will have a rethink at some stage. The one area which is causing them concern is the drop in attendances. Which at the end of the day will dictate as to whether? They continue to play from March –November.

Do you have information the rest of us don't possess.

Of course should we return to winter football mid week games won’t be taking place unless Clubs choose to floodlit there grounds, but then again playing in winter means our season starts in August and ends in May. Instead of all year round.
.
There are positives which we can now take from our 12 years away from our tradition football season that is we can now boast that we have come along way in upgrading our football grounds to highest standards. That should we return we would reduce the number of postponements and compete at the highest level and our clubs would be able to take brakes and keep our players. While during the summer months we would be able to restore our pitches in the growing season.
Another irony would be sorted out and that would allow players to play with U-21 teams without causing too much unrest which we had to put up with.

I understand how people hanker back to the old days it is natural for us to put on our rose tinted glasses when we think of the past but take them off and reflect on the past as it really was:- bad pitches, desperate weather, double jobbing players with no real love for soccer just keeping fit over the winter, bad pitches because of the weather degrading the standard of soccer.
Personnally I think we should stay as we are because the good points far outweigh the bad and like everything change is slow and all we need is for one other league to have the vision that we had in Mayo and then the rest will follow.

**sinabhuil** · 02/12/2006, 10:10 AM

Renovater - Good post. I dont agree with winter soccer. I play in the twilight league in Galway over the winter on astroturf. Some matches you have to wear caps and gloves as well as suffering from injuries. I believe all leagues should move to summer. The all year football problem only affects a couple of clubs and these clubs have huge squads.

However, Renovater, you must be complemented you have started an excellent debate.

**swinfordfc** · 04/12/2006, 2:53 PM

The super league is ruin by one club in my eyes Celtic (in the last year only) - getting players moving all over the place - s+f utd gone this year because of them and snugboro will be gone next year due to they players going there. thats what i think is ruining mayo soccer - now westport have one foreign player

summer soccer is great for the players - where would you get a pitch in the county playable in this weather?

by the way congrats to mayo ladies team only 3 years in existence and already all ireland champs

**renovater** · 04/12/2006, 6:56 PM

I can see this debate rolling on, everyone has opinion some of you may agree with short frank, others may not it is easy to disagree and wipe everything under the carpet.
But there certain aspects that you can't disagree with. If summer Football is so good why isn't every league playing in it.I for one think summer football is the best time to play because of the conditions.
But the facts are no other league wants to play Summer Football. attendences are down this has been comfirmed by THE Eircome League and its no reason to sugest we are any differant.
regards to standards of teams N Coll lately reported in his opinion that the standard of the supper League has droped.
Lets look at Westport 2 seasons ago they were the best team in Ireland now they manage to finsh forth this season I don't think for one second that those who finshed above them apart from celtic where better. I simply put it down to year in year out playing football.If you look at the teams that make up the supper League once you go below Celtic Westport Ballina Erris you are scraping the barrell.any of the rest are just average.We will agree there is a differance between the supper and the premier. the pace of the super is much faster. but has shown the premier is catching up just look at Crossmolina, though mine you the honney moon is over and the second year is much harder to substain.
In an Ideal world I would agree summer is better but the rest of the leagues think other wise
However I dont think for one moment that winter doesn't have its problems
One could tinker with winter football by closing down last 2 weeks of December / January.
I have seen pitches closed down in July due to rain fall but the bigest problem to fixtures are other advents that come up against them which was high lighted by J. Durkan in his report to clubs recently.
I think the debate will roll on others will agree with short frank, but the welfare of players must come first.And it up to you the clubs to make that decission.

**BallBreaker** · 04/12/2006, 7:56 PM

Clare Schoolboys are going Summer soccer in 2007 and i expect Clare Junior league to follow suit within the next 2 years....

**The Don** · 05/12/2006, 8:14 AM

I can't even start to understand the argument for a return to a winter league.
Why would we return to playing in those conditions and worse still training twice a week in those conditions. Attendences would not increase and standards would most certainly suffer. As for the external comps, we only really started competing for honours year in year out since we started playing summer soccer.

**the grape vine** · 05/12/2006, 9:30 AM

I agreed with the pitch's been bad, but think of all the good GAA players that could play?

**pixiehead** · 05/12/2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

I can't even start to understand the argument for a return to a winter league.
Why would we return to playing in those conditions and worse still training twice a week in those conditions. Attendences would not increase and standards would most certainly suffer. As for the external comps, we only really started competing for honours year in year out since we started playing summer soccer.

100% right. just look out the window the last 3-4 weeks and ask your self.......winter soccer......Not on your nelly!!

**The Don** · 05/12/2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by the grape vine

I agreed with the pitch's been bad, but think of all the good GAA players that could play?

Maybe the GAA should switch to a Winter season.! If players from other sports want to play soccer freedom of choice still exists. Why would we change the season to accomadate a few.