QuoteSuperb book and good research. Collins,IMO, was a mastermind. But the real scary part is if he had lived, we would all have a Cork accent!!!!!!
...would
(a) Fine Gael be bigger than Fianna Fail ?
(b) Civil war have broken out with the Unionists up north? He only regarded partition as a temporary matter to get the Treaty signed and intended to resume the struggle in the northeastern counties.
(c) our economy have been as bad as it was for all those years bearing in mind he had a lot of business ideas ?
(d) De Valera never have achieved the power and status he did ?
Just read Tim Pat Coogan's biography (I know it's been around for years) of the man. Lots of info I never knew like Percival, the British General who surrendered Singapore to the Japs, was a major in Ireland during the troubles who tortured Irish prisoners. Field marshal Montgomery also told his troops not to worry about Irish civilian casualties during the troubles when he was also a low ranking officer.
Superb book and good research. Collins,IMO, was a mastermind. But the real scary part is if he had lived, we would all have a Cork accent!!!!!!
Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.
..and be speaking Irish with a Cork accent.
a.Fine Gael weren't around, Sinn Fein was the party
b.it would've ment war with UK
c.too hard to say
d.I hope to God that would be true!!
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
I'm going to be rude and not answer your questions,I just wanted to say thank God for gifting Ireland with his excellency ,Michael Collins
The best thing to ever come out of Cork.
de Valera was one of the not so great things to happen to this country. Was like a 30 year time pause.
Michael Collins was Great Ever irishman.
before i read the thread i thought it should be moved to the portadown forum
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That and the N8Originally Posted by D2 Red
Kom Igen, FCK...
I think you lot are giving Dev a harder time than he deserves.
I think he was behind Michael Collins' death.
And I think he gets alot more credit then he deserves.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
He gets little or no credit as it is and it's not enough.I think he was behind Michael Collins' death.
And I think he gets alot more credit then he deserves.
I also think he was behind Michael Collins but we will never know.
He's seen by alot of people in my grandparent's generation as the "saviour of Ireland" by making it a republic and being Taoiseach and President.
Fair play to him for doing all that, but I honestly believe there's something sinister about him.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
of course there was, he was a conservative yankeeI honestly believe there's something sinister about him.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Had he lived feck all would have changed up here anyway.
Go lí cúnna ifrinn do thóin bheagmhaitheasach
Also an interesting point that as you said is overlooked but Where and what state would his Country be in without him
Who turned guns on who? Those that wouldn't accept the will of the people? Those that spoke of wading through blood of Irishmen?
Hard to say how history would've judged Collins had he lived, but doubt it would've cast Dev in any better light. Sure he couldn't manage it controlling a paper group brought with funds raised for Ireland....
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
No DeValera is quoted as trying to persuade them to call off the ambush. According to Tim Pat Coogan, DeValera liked power for the sake of power while Collins liked it to see what he could achieve with it.
When did Sein Fein go from being within the mainstream to outside it ? Arthur Griffiths, the founder of Sinn Fein, was one of the most pro-treaty people of the time.
Collins would never have fought alongside the UK in WW2 while the northeastern counties remained part of the UK.
I think the make up of Northern Ireland might have been a little different.The main thing that persuaded Collins to sign the treaty was that Lloyd George promised a thorough boundary commission to look into the status of the 6 counties. Collins was led to believe that this would take vast chunks and be given to the Free State. He thought that the "rump state" that would be be left would prove to be untenable and a 32 County state would only be a matter of time after that. A little naive perhaps but theres no doubt he would not have stood for the cursory boundary commision of 24/5? that changed f*ck all.
Love the portrayal of Collins in Roddy Doyles "A Star called Henry" - a shadowy yet almost loveable rogue who inspired blind loyalty in his followers. Theres no doubt that he had more charisma in his little finger than Dev had in his whole body. Mind you the same could be said for Haughey
Sure Dev would've done so much better.... If he hadn't bottled going to the talks, great statesman that he was...
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Saw a program on that in the BBC (i think with Simon Shama) a few years back. Anyway, DeValera made sure he wasn't going to sign the partitioning of Ireland and left it to Collins, so he could take the rap for Ulster remaining outside of the FreeState. Dev stitched him up good and proper on this point, hence the falling out and Civil War to ensure DeValera's leadership.Sure Dev would've done so much better.... If he hadn't bottled going to the talks, great statesman that he was...
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