colombia 3 get 17 yrs

[exile]

just in colombia 3 get 17yrs to be served in colombia
from aertel
Three Irish jailed in Colombia after appeal

16 December 2004 17:24
Three Irishmen initially acquitted of training Marxist rebels in Colombia have now been jailed for more than 17 years following an appeal.

The prosecution successfully appealed the acquittal of Niall Connolly, Martin McCauley and James Monaghan.

Arrest warrants have been issued for the three men, who have remained on bail in Colombia.



The three, who had been accused of being IRA members, were found guilty of travelling on false passports.

[patsh]

Amazing that the Prosecution can appeal (though I think there are some suggestions that this could soon be a possibility in this country?), and get a heavy sentence like this. The whole trial seems to have been a joke, with the whole case depending on two "FARC deserters" who contradicted each other. Didn't Jim O'Keeffe TD prove that he was with Connolly at the time Connolly was supposed to be doing this training?
Can't say I blame them if they have gone on the run, but that will probably make it even worse for them, (if thats possible).

[patsh]

I thought only the passport issue remained.

My understanding is that the Colombian Supreme Court convicted them on the charge of training the Guerillas. They were found guilty of travelling on false passports in the original trial, and sentenced, but had already served the time for that.
I don't understand this, they were acquitted, but the prosecution appealed. I wonder will the judgement be published, as I'd love to know what evidence the Supreme Court saw that the trial judge either missed or "mis-interpreted"....

[pete]

IMO they were not travelling on valid irish passports so irish state doesn't have too many duties towards them.

Harsh sentence is another debate.

[Jim Smith]

Thankfully the three have made a daring escape from the clutches of 'Colombian justice' and will be home for Christmas please God...

If they do show up here - and I think they would be mad to - I wonder just what line the government will take. The Colombians will almost certainly try to get the US to use some muscle. The question might be what is more important to them, the Colombians in there war against drugs or Shannon in their Middle Eastern adventures?

[eoinh]

Did any of these three serve time befor they went to Columbia?

[patsh]

They were rightly found guilty and punished for the false passports offence.

Surely the point here, however, no matter what politics anyone has, is that a blatently unfair trial, saw 3 people acquitted, but now a different court has decided to sentence them to 17 years in prison.

This is not justice by any definition of the word, and cannot imagine anything like this being tolerated here by anyone.

[eoinh]

Sorry Patsh i meant before they went to columbia. Had they served time before in Ireland or Britain?

[Dublin12]

I did a thread on them about a month ago with not one reply funny how everybody is so concerned now

[JohnB]

Given that the FARQ are using precisely the same methods to blow up civilians that PIRA did (design of bombs etc), I think it's stretching credibility to breaking point to think that information hasn't been passed on. 'Please god' that they're home for Christmas? Well, I suppose the three are still alive, unlike FARQ's victims.

Here's a particularly nasty story.

http://globalization.about.com/libra.../aa051800a.htm

[dortie]

Given that the FARQ are using precisely the same methods to blow up civilians that PIRA did (design of bombs etc), I think it's stretching credibility to breaking point to think that information hasn't been passed on. 'Please god' that they're home for Christmas? Well, I suppose the three are still alive, unlike FARQ's victims.

Here's a particularly nasty story.

http://globalization.about.com/libra.../aa051800a.htm

And what has FARQs victims got to do with this ?? Have you found them guilty then, in your own mind ?

[cullenswood]

I suppose you would have hung the Birmingham six aswell...

The Birmingham six weren't travelling on false passports!

They had to have been up to something dodgy. Your normal holidaymaker doosn't carry false passports

[eoinh]

The Birmingham six weren't travelling on false passports!

They had to have been up to something dodgy. Your normal holidaymaker doosn't carry false passports

They werent carrying real passports because they had been convicted of something and their right to a passport hab been taken away from them.

What were they covicted of because i dont know.

[JohnB]

And what has FARQs victims got to do with this ?? Have you found them guilty then, in your own mind ?

Are you serious? What have FARQ's victims got to do with this? Just about everything, I think. Weighing up the probabilities, I think only the most naive or one eyed would believe that PIRA have not passed on their expertise in bomb making to FARQ and that these three clowns were involved in doing as much. That expertise has allowed FARQ to kill shoppers and passers by in much the same way that the IRA did in Omagh, Warrington etc etc.

[JohnB]

I suppose you would have hung the Birmingham six aswell...

No, of course not. For a start, I don't believe in capital punishment . I've every sympathy for the B6 but none at all for the C3.

[dortie]

Are you serious? What have FARQ's victims got to do with this? Just about everything, I think. Weighing up the probabilities, I think only the most naive or one eyed would believe that PIRA have not passed on their expertise in bomb making to FARQ and that these three clowns were involved in doing as much. That expertise has allowed FARQ to kill shoppers and passers by in much the same way that the IRA did in Omagh, Warrington etc etc.

You not only have them as 'guilty' but also have their characters summed up as 'Clowns'. It doesnt take a clown to realise you have your own bitter twisted views on Republicans.

And personally I dont for one minute believe the tragedys you outlined above as being intentional.

[patsh]

The only evidence against them were two deserters, and their evidence contradicted one another. Now I know the IRA never gave anyone a fair trial, but this case seems particularly dodgy. One of these deserters gave the dates when he said Connolly was giving training, but Jim O'Keefe, an FG TD from Cork, swore out an affidavitt that he had met Connolly in Cuba at the time of this supposed training. There were other many instances of "evidence" proving to either of the most flimsy kind or simply downright lies and fabrication.

So we have two choices:
1. Do we sink to the level of the IRA and say unfair trials are perfectly ok, as in IRA "kangaroo courts", or
2. Do we stay civilised and believe that everybody, regardless of objectionable the crime, political affiliation or personal beliefs of the accused are, is entitled to a fair trial?
I know which type of society I prefer.

[Colm]

If they do show up here - and I think they would be mad to - I wonder just what line the government will take.

That will be very interesting alright.
I have no doubt that these guys were up to something very dodgy and sinister but I still believe that if the situation arose that the government should/would refuse to extradite them because they would not be treated fairly in Columbia.
Patsh's point about getting them not getting a fair trial is a very good and relevant one.

[Lionel Ritchie]

So we have two choices:
1. Do we sink to the level of the IRA and say unfair trials are perfectly ok, as in IRA "kangaroo courts", or
2. Do we stay civilised and believe that everybody, regardless of objectionable the crime, political affiliation or personal beliefs of the accused are, is entitled to a fair trial?
I know which type of society I prefer

the world gets stranger and stranger -I find myself in agreement with patsh on this one.

While I think on the balance of probabilities these guys were up to no good -there is a greater issue here -namely that it is a much lesser evil to sometimes let the guilty walk than it is to punish the innocent.

[JohnB]

You not only have them as 'guilty' but also have their characters summed up as 'Clowns'. It doesnt take a clown to realise you have your own bitter twisted views on Republicans.

And personally I dont for one minute believe the tragedys you outlined above as being intentional.

I'm bitter about republican murderers alright (although not republicans per se). And their loyalist brothers and sisters; because they've more in common with each other than with the rest of us.

PIRA were experts at planting bombs in areas crowded with shoppers and, then killing them unintentionally. Some might say they'd have been better off to blow up some places where there were no shoppers. PIRA employed very cunning tactics. 'Oops we killed twenty, didn't mean it'. But they knew that the effect of killing people was much greater than simply blowing up an inanimate object. Win, win I suppose, especially when there are people as gullible as yourself about.

I'll not bore you or anyone else with a list of deaths attributed to PIRA that even you would find hard to make excuses for.