Ward is a lunch pail guy. He comes in, works hard and keeps his mouth shut...managers appreciate that in all sports I'm guessing.Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Hutton is a doubt for Scotland ..... according to Lambert
Ward is a lunch pail guy. He comes in, works hard and keeps his mouth shut...managers appreciate that in all sports I'm guessing.
There is something in general to what you say, however most all their (Whelan and Ward) managers have held them in high regard. Maybe when it comes to Whelan and Ward, all managers suspend rationality, but I doubt it. When manager after manager continue to hold the same player in high regard then maybe one can accept that the players have useful qualities and ability.
Ward starts because of the lack of options not because he's a favoured one, even though Delaney's exclusion is a curious one.
Are we over thinking the Whelan conundrum? Maybe we do see what they see? That he's disciplined, tactically aware, has a good positional sense, an okay passer when he has time and space and keeps things simple and ticking over. The problem I would have is that, rightly or wrongly, I kind of see him as a symbol of our lack of progress. Whelan might never leave us down, in a very obvious sense, but he will never contribute to us kicking on to the next level. Perhaps the same could be said of Stoke City. They're no better now then they were five or six years ago, despite solidifying their top flight status. I'm not blaming Whelan for Stoke not challenging for the top four or anything, just pointing out that he's your man if you want to remain in the same place. Of course, Premier League stability is fine for Stoke City, in fact it's living the dream a little bit, but I think we need to kick on.
Ya I was watching stoke thus evening and looking at crouch and Walters and thinking of whelan also and think that's exactly it they haven't kicked on and as you say if you want that you need to be replacing whelan (and others mentioned )with all round midfielders.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I think Whelan is the safe option. There was a time once when we trusted our better players to just go out and do what they do. At times this was a car crash - the Kilbane / Ireland CM pairing in Cyprus - and at times it worked. Trap didn't see midfield as an area where we could win a game, it was an area where he could minimise the chance of losing one. O'Neill seems to be a bit stuck in this mindset too, as evidenced by his "Hoolahan for home games against fodder" utterances.
I think this can be adapted though and most teams now play at least one deep lying water carrier as a platform for more attacking play. O'Neill fluffed his lines in this regard in Georgia thinking McCarthy had the game to be the attacking midfielder whereas he is clearly better suited to the deeper role. Whelan is seen as a competent, safe water carrier, but the best guys in this role do it better. These guys set the tempo of a game. I suppose Whelan does too, a slow one. He's like a scrum half who feeds his ten slow ball all the time.
Is Whelan really the symbol of our midfield malaise though? I feel he would benefit from better midfielders around him too, but all in, I think he is just too slow and doesn't use the ball well. He works hard, takes up good defensive positions but that's as far as it goes.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 02/11/2014 at 9:38 AM.
He's injured for this game, surely what he can/can't do is irrelevant...
Speaking generally AB.
I know!
But is he even going to be playing in the next year or so...
Good points stutts that first paragraph is spot on that formation with our best players in best positions spectacularly imploded in a couple of games. I think though in the first half against israel and that home game in croke park against Wales it worked well.
If you read or listen to oneill at the gaa awards you will get a good insight to his thinking and why Walters for example was picked, it's like we said at the time he offers defensive solidity and cover especially for someone not used to playing in that position.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Why wouldn't he be? I thought MON said he even has an outside chance of making Scotland?
He talks about it here actually, as well as having a cut off Dunphy. Sometimes I wonder is it counter productive to get involved with Dunphy though, is the best way of dealing with him by not dealing with him? It's great to see him getting slated and undermined, but is it giving him the publicity he craves at the same time. People will probably be queuing up in anticipation of his retort.
MON - I haven't taken Eamon seriously in 25 years
We aren't in the premier league of intl football, we're hoverering between two lower divisions, safe mid table in the premier league of intl football would be something.
I'm not over thinking the Whelan conundrum but I took some issue with a post that has a cheap pop and just puts his good fortune at getting picked down to a piece of favouritism, ignoring the fact that every manager he has worked under, favours what he has to offer their team.
And Stoke fans are (at last) quite content with the type of football their team is playing, Glenn is flavour of the season and it isn't just because he has good players around him there. So Glenn has slotted into a role in a team playing faster paced football to feet.
For our purposes, I can appreciate why O'Neill (in getting that outstanding result) in Georgia didn't want to have 2 holding midfielders who actually don't seem to complement each other, but played McCarthy further up. He played it safe with Glenn and at the same time tried something different/adventurous with McCarthy and McGeady. It probably didn't work out as well as was planned but I don't mind a manager using players out of their pigeonholed roles, to effect an offensive plan. Like when Kerr tried something different against Italy but the players just didn't get it and the mob wanted 442.
We wanted something different (than Trap) from O'Neill, he tried something different it didn't work as planned but it didn't cost us at all.
We should appreciate what was tried and look forward.
I was speaking generally, it's not all about you
We might not be in the Premier League of international football but we're pretty similar to Stoke in terms of talent. Are these the same fans who used give him a hard time at one point, if I remember correctly? Has he improved that much or just grown on them? If ever a player has remained at the same level it's our Glenn, I feel, so it must be the latter.
Chaps im watching the rte news on pbs....they found a treasure trove of artifacts from the 17th century in one of your old castles built around 1583. I suggest some of you check it out and get back to me and Adam at once. It could hold keys to your soccering past.
Generally he's not the greatest and is reaching the 'crock' stage.
You know, Crosby, I'm sure some of our tactics under Trap dated back to the 17th century.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
He's hardly a crock - his injury record isn't too bad. Whatever about whether you think he deserved them, his appearance record for Ireland over the past few years shows he's more or less always fit.
Aye, but the point is he's been around for years and even if he was our greatest ever player would be surprised if he lasts beyond this campaign?
I'd be surprised if he's still in the team by the end, yeah. I think he will still be in the squad though.
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