Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[Mr A]

Some excellent stuff here from Miguel Delaney:

http://migueldelaney.com/2014/10/08/...ball-part-one/
http://migueldelaney.com/2014/10/08/...s-dont-add-up/

"Between ages of 6 and 16, European players get 14 times more touches on ball than Irish players."

For all the endless debate about managers and who exactly should be in the team- this stuff is massively more important than that.

[Stuttgart88]

Very good article, someone actually bothering to go into the field to interview and properly research some of the points made before on foot.ie.

Dokter seems to come out of Miguel's interviews quite well.

I presume yer man Kinsella is the father of the young fella just gone over to Everton, and if so, was his move to comply with underage players needing to be accompanied for family moving for work reasons?


It's great that Miguell put some meat on the bone, but in a way it's not that much news to readers here, that there does seem to be a growing number of clued-in constituents but the whole structure is too fragmented and political. The anecdotes and quotes were very telling though. Interesting that JD and the FAI seem aware of the need to change things but they are only doing so in a softly softly manner. That's what I took out of it on first read anyway.

[BonnieShels]

Given the fact that Iceland are doing something, even if it is on the basis of what geysir has said in the Opponent watch thread, been as a result of enterprising individuals; it's high time we just accepted that this needs to be the beginning now. We are falling so far behind it is embarrassing. The more we delay the longer it will take to get back to where we were.

[Charlie Darwin]

Very good article, someone actually bothering to go into the field to interview and properly research some of the points made before on foot.ie.

Dokter seems to come out of Miguel's interviews quite well.

I presume yer man Kinsella is the father of the young fella just gone over to Everton, and if so, was his move to comply with underage players needing to be accompanied for family moving for work reasons?


It's great that Miguell put some meat on the bone, but in a way it's not that much news to readers here, that there does seem to be a growing number of clued-in constituents but the whole structure is too fragmented and political. The anecdotes and quotes were very telling though. Interesting that JD and the FAI seem aware of the need to change things but they are only doing so in a softly softly manner. That's what I took out of it on first read anyway.

It is Tom Kinsella's dad, yeah, ex-Bohs and Athlone player and former Shamrock Rovers physio.

Miguel Delaney is a very good journalist and very interested in stats, etc. so looking forward to the article.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

http://www.thescore.ie/futsal-irelan...30462-Oct2014/

[geysir]

That was a well thought out article by Miguel, he put a lot of work into it and the final product is a very good overview of the crux of the matter. I know John Delaney is being paid a relative fortune but he is being made a scapegoat by some critics for all the ills in Irish football, if he was a maintaining cause of this dysfunction then yes he would deserve all the criticism, but from what I can gather he's shipping far too much criticism and the expectations of what he's supposed to be fixing are way too high. The heftier issues are elsewhere and this criticism of Delaney is glossing over and deflecting from where the problems are.
When Ireland u19s played Norway and Sweden recently in friendlies, our team of mainly English club based players faced two intl teams composed of mainly local league based players, local based players with the established clubs in their leagues and probably most of them started their serious football with that club around the age of 15 or 16. One difference now is that those teams from Norway and Sweden are a level better than us, even though our players are at supposedly better resourced clubs in England.
So not only is Irish football structure disjointed but the coaching at English clubs are also failing us

Given the fact that Iceland are doing something, even if it is on the basis of what geysir has said in the Opponent watch thread, been as a result of enterprising individuals; it's high time we just accepted that this needs to be the beginning now. We are falling so far behind it is embarrassing. The more we delay the longer it will take to get back to where we were.

Just to clarify one point, it began with individual ex pros starting up modern coaching schools in 2000 but the Icelandic FA integrated it all with the league clubs. Those individual coaching enterprises became defunct the following season, as all was incorporated into the league club coaching network. So instead of a kid joining Eidur Gudjonsson's school of modern excellence, they signed on with their local league club.
Communism has a few plusses.

[BonnieShels]

That's even better.

Imagine the FA of a nation thinking it a good idea to join things up...

[bennocelt]

That was a well thought out article by Miguel, he put a lot of work into it and the final product is a very good overview of the crux of the matter. I know John Delaney is being paid a relative fortune but he is being made a scapegoat by some critics for all the ills in Irish football, if he was a maintaining cause of this dysfunction then yes he would deserve all the criticism, but from what I can gather he's shipping far too much criticism and the expectations of what he's supposed to be fixing are way too high. The heftier issues are elsewhere and this criticism of Delaney is glossing over and deflecting from where the problems are.
When Ireland u19s played Norway and Sweden recently in friendlies, our team of mainly English club based players faced two intl teams composed of mainly local league based players, local based players with the established clubs in their leagues and probably most of them started their serious football with that club around the age of 15 or 16. One difference now is that those teams from Norway and Sweden are a level better than us, even though our players are at supposedly better resourced clubs in England.
So not only is Irish football structure disjointed but the coaching at English clubs are also failing us
.

As head of the FAI, he should have to take the criticism, but apart from LOI fans who is giving him a hard time? Not the mainstream media anyway, with the movies n magazine specials, and the ole ole brigade love him to bits!

[tetsujin1979]

interesting interview with Stephen Bradley here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30781087.html
Just been appointed a scout for Arsenal in Ireland, and will be the PFAI’s coach for a FIFPRO tournament in January. I wasn't aware of the details of why he didn't make it in England.

[frenchman]

I wasn't really sure where to put this ,but not being able to start a new thread I think that this is the best one .....
I was wondering why the FAI don't invest in elite LOI players and then cash-in on the transfer fee. Of the current international team/generation (mcclean,doyle,n.hunt,long,fahey,coleman,forde) only mcclean went for a half reasonable fee. the main problem is purely the fact that their contracts are either out to they are paid so little that it costs very little to buy them out. Added to that the fact that any Irish club (I think) would jump a the change to sell their best player for 250 000.
So my solution is , the FAI choose the best 20 - 25 LOI players (I consider that each premier division club has two or three players who could potentially ''make it'' abroad) and they buy 50% of their rights (south American style à la Hulk and Tevez) and then they would get 50% of the transfer , which would legally have to be more as the foreign clubs would be buying them out of a bigger contract.
If you take 25 players x 52 weeks x 250E = 300 000 per year. Long and Doyle have already been sold on for over 12million so with a better negociation power,sell-on % could easily be input into the sales.
Does something like this not happen in the MLS? their contracts are owned by the US federation I think...
any ideas?

[BonnieShels]

No. Pure no. In an ideal world that would only work if the association had a long-term planning bone among anyone in charge and if the other vastly more pressing issues that exist in the Irish game were dealt with first. Which they haven't been. So, no.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the concept of central contracts might have some merit but as Bonnie says, the FAI has to sort itself and other issues out first. I expect it'd require UEFA or FIFA sign off though because of the issue of third party ownership which they are trying to regulate more closely.The MLS does indeed have such a system, as far as I know.

As things stand the clubs can't afford anything longer than 9 month contracts so they make next to nothing in transfer fees anyway, only training compensation. Whether the FAI can afford anything longer is another matter, but at least the FAI's interest would now be more directly aligned with the development of players and the progress of the league.

It would need to be very well thought out as there are all kinds of reasons why clubs would object, but could also welcome it.

The UK football writer Patrick Barclay has gone as far as saying the all footballers' contracts be owned by their national associations. Of course, then, who would own Jack Grealish's contract?!

[Charlie Darwin]

MLS has full ownership of contracts. The FAI could arguably have gone down the third-party contract route in the past but not now UEFA is moving towards a complete ban. Even if they weren't, I don't think UEFA would sanction the league taking a financial stake in players' contracts. It would be a conflict of interest, especially if the intention was to sell players on.

[Eminence Grise]

Nice idea, but giving the FAI financial clout and an interest in plundering a squad or two of their best players? With our luck, on his way to the market Delaney would swop players with some random stranger for a handful of magic beans that would turn out to be... beans.

(On a positive, though, it would let the tabloids run a 'going for a song' headline...)

[Stuttgart88]

I'd love to be going to this:

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/art...nd-its-future/

[geysir]

I'd love to be going to this:

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/art...nd-its-future/

There is an added element, the aura of mystery of just who is the leading schoolboy “emerging talent” coach scheduled to discuss the main issues.

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't particularly want to start a new thread for this, so I'll stick it here as not sure where else to put it. Jim McGuinness has undertaken the FAI Coaching Pathway: https://balls.ie/football/jim-mcguin...er-management/

It’s just over two years since Jim McGuinness first took up a role with Celtic as a performance consultant. Ever since, there have been some half-serious shouts for him to one day become manager at Parkhead, especially following the departure of Neil Lennon at the end of last season.

The former Donegal manager may actually be taking his first steps towards soccer management or, alternatively, he just wants to gain a better understanding of his current work environment.

According to The Donegal Democrat, McGuinness has undertaken the FAI Coaching Pathway. He has already completed the Kickstart 2 section in Dungarvan and begins the FAI Youth Cert Coaching Course next week in Galway.

He’s still a good bit off that UEFA Pro Licence yet though.

[nigel-harps1954]

He'll probably need badges to actually coach with the first team. He's worked plenty in football before, and would make a damn fine manager. His motivational skills are absolutely second to none.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...es-320926.html

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...-top-1.2153120

Stephen Ward and Stephen Quinn owe debt of gratitude to DDSL.