the ira is not our army.you cant possibly compare the two.nor could some player in that situarion were it ever to arise.
I've seen many people wearing a poppy around Manchester this week. I haven't worn one. Am I the one making the statement?Originally Posted by SkStu
I don't agree with your interpretation of his approach to the issue and I'd imagine that, deep down, you don't either.
McClean made it quite clear his reasons for not wearing the Poppy - out of respect for those killed at the hands of the British Army in his home City.
Those that fought in two World Wars, from Great Britain & Ireland, did so that people like McClean should have the freedom to make choices like whether or not they wanted to wear a Poppy.
I proudly wear my Poppy ( a little lapel one just like Sir Alex Ferguson) for a few days each year at this time as a mark of respect to our Glorious Dead - if that offends anyone, too bad. I respect the right of anyone, for whatever their reasons, not to wear a Poppy.
I was delighted to see The Taoiseach and The Tánaiste attend Remembrance Day Services in Enniskillen ( a particularly sombre occassion on the 25th Anniversary of the bombing at The Cenotaph there) and Belfast today. They were there to pay their respects to those from this island who paid the ultimate sacrifice in the World Wars. They displayed an understanding of our shared history.
"We Were Brothers"
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I don't know, are you?
Did he, or are you assuming his reasoning?
There's a lot of rich talk on the bustling OWC McClean thread at the minute. What ever happened to keeping politics out of football, eh?...
Not at all. Just like James, no?
Maybe because a 'foreign' football club pays him hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to play football. He should at least be respectful of the people in the country in which he now lives/works. The Argentine players managed to do this. Mcclean comes over rather bitter and uneducated.
Arguable that James is guilty of bringing further political issues into football as a result of his stance.
No and I've explained why. Did you make a conscious decision to go against what your teammates were doing? Once he did this he is the one making the statement. And a really ill informed one at that.
I wonder how he gets on with Conor Wickham...I'd guess there would be some interesting differences in opinion in that relationship.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
But they gave their players the choice.
Says who? And he has to do that by donning a poppy? Plenty of English people don't wear a poppy. Are they being disrespectful?He should at least be respectful of the people in the country in which he now lives/works.
My tongue was firmly wedged in cheek, but that's football and politics for you. What do you expect when football is politicised?
Why should it matter what his team-mates were doing? The club decided to make a political statement and McClean opted out of it. There was no obligation placed upon him to wear a poppy. He fell foul of no rule, law or policy. What was ill-informed about such a decision?No and I've explained why. Did you make a conscious decision to go against what your teammates were doing? Once he did this he is the one making the statement. And a really ill informed one at that.
Please explain how his decision is ill-informed.
His "statement" is ill-informed if he believes the poppy is specifically and exclusively supportive of the British Army and that is his reason for not wearing it. His decision seems unnecessarily provocative.
And to be honest, I don't particularly care about arguing anymore about this issue with a group of posters who only usually surface with opinions on subjects related to the relationships between ireland, northern Ireland and Britain.
But how? Millions of people don't wear a poppy in the UK. Millions don't care about that cause whatsoever. If anything McClean would be more likely to offend a huge proportion of a community in his place of birth (Northern Ireland) than where he currently lives, given his previous stance on various things - and I'm not sure how that fits with your 'when in Rome' theory.
You haven't offered anything analogous to what McClean did - it's nowhere near the same as ex-pats in the Middle East or elsewhere.
Oh and...does anyone think he'll start Wednesday?
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
Adopt local practices ?
Do you reckon that Eamon Zayed, whilst playing in Iran, should get himself involved in a few stonings of women or hangings of homosexuals ?
Maybe a few American/British flag burnings ?
Let's be completely honest here.. the wearing of the poppy has become politicised in recent years, and how many of us believe that politics and sport shouldn't mix.
I abhor the notion that players should have to "conform" to something they might not believe in, just to satisfy someone else.
In fact, I believe FIFA should step in and stop the FA "forcing" football teams to partake in "poppy" politics. It's my belief that all political symbols should be removed from sports jersies.
Now, you might argue that the players were honouring their fallen relatives. Well, what would you have said if Per Mertasacker or Lucas Podolski had worn a swastika yesterday to honour a dead relative of theirs ?
Mc Clean was right to say no yesterday. And all poppies should be removed from jersies in the future, so this stupid argument wouldn't have to take place.
If it isn't supportive of the British Army, who is it supportive of ?
And, on another point, I don't think ex servicemen should have to rely on the British Legion or any other charity to look after them if they fall on hard times, especially if the hard times relate to their time in service. The British Army, and by extension the British Government sent them to war, they should look after them
<br><br>If it isn't supportive of the British Army, who is it supportive of ?<br><br>And, on another point, I don't think ex servicemen should have to rely on the British Legion or any other charity to look after them if they fall on hard times, especially if the hard times relate to their time in service. The British Army, and by extension the British Government sent them to war, they should look after them <br>
<br>
I'd rather the argument took place than have Clubs/players have the right to wear a Poppy on their shirt in Remembrance of our Fallen (if they so wish) removed.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 11/11/2012 at 9:05 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
His reason for not wearing one is obvious, and hardly needs repeating. I have never worn a poppy, and never will for similar, yet broader, reasons.
If his decision seems provocative, it is only because it has been made in a time when poppy wearing has become almost ubiquitous in Britain.
That's me told then.
Last edited by The Fly; 11/11/2012 at 8:26 PM.
The Fly, back bang on the issue there.
So why even get involved then?
'Our'? Isn't today supposed to be about everyone who died?
And one rather obvious, erm, typo above, also...
Who said he believed it to be "specifically and exclusively supportive of the British Army"? Would it matter anyway? How do you know what exactly he believes with regard to the symbolism behind the poppy? We all know the connotations of the symbol in Ireland. The poppy, whether rightly or wrongly, has long been perceived as a British political symbol in Ireland - largely a preserve of the unionist community - and its wearing is associated with general supportive sentiment for the British Army. If James doesn't wish to be seen to be expressing such sentiment, perhaps because of the British Army's past activities in his home city, can you fault him? If he's unaware of the fact that the poppy might also stand to remember, say, dead Irishmen who fought for Britain, so what? The former is reason enough for him to object, I should think.
No need to resort to unwarranted ad hominem attacks either; the opinions expressed by posters disagreeing with you are still as valid as any other.And to be honest, I don't particularly care about arguing anymore about this issue with a group of posters who only usually surface with opinions on subjects related to the relationships between ireland, northern Ireland and Britain.
Should players have the right to wear any political emblems they wish during play?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 11/11/2012 at 8:22 PM.
Not sure on that one - for example, if an Irish Republican wanted to wear an Easter Lily during play at Easter time, I would certainly not be offended.
I do believe, strongly, that Clubs within the United Kingdom (and their players) should have the right to remember the Nation's Fallen by way of wearing a Poppy on their shirt, if they so wish, at this time of year.
I don't think that many Clubs and players in the United Kingdom will stop this honourable act of remembrance and respect on account of the sensitivities of Irish Nationalists/Republicans.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
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