League format 2011-2012

**oriel** · 06/03/2011, 9:59 AM

Anyone know if that stupid split is even to be proposed next year? this should be opposed and very strongly too by all clubs. It will add nothing (but misery for 6 clubs) to the PD.

**legendz** · 06/03/2011, 10:57 AM

Looking at the season ticket figures, I can see why Shamrock Rovers want to keep their 18 home league games.
I can't see why the Premier of 12 won't be played over 3 series as it was before. They've the same format in Denmark. The way they work it, the prize for finishing in the top 6 is having the extra home game in the following season. It gives those around 7th and 8th something to push for at the later stages of the season. The alternative is reversing the fixtures as per usual in Division One and as it was done before in the Premier.
Agreed with all on the split, it'll be misery for the 6 clubs involved.

Danish system for working the extra series:

Whatever format is agreed upon, hopefully the league can have a settled structure.

**legendz** · 14/05/2011, 9:53 AM

Has there been any news or update on the structure for next season?

**nigel-harps1954** · 14/05/2011, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

Has there been any news or update on the structure for next season?

They have decided whoever finishes bottom of the first will be promoted too. A bold move by Harps.

**colonelwest** · 16/05/2011, 1:58 PM

Have to say I'm completely against a split for the last round of games. You only have to look at Scotland to see how well that's working out, Motherwell finished top six before the split and come the end of the season Inverness, who were in the bottom half, ended up 7 points better off and would have finished fifth ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock if the split wasn't there!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

The same has happened up North with Coleraine, Dungannon and Ballymena having more points than the teams immediately above them in the table come the end of the season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

10 teams is too small for a national league with repitition being the killer but the one advantage it has is that you get an even number of home and away games per season. Whereas with 12 (or even up to 16 teams) it'll either have to be play each other 3 times, a split after 2 rounds or rotate the extra home game on a season by season basis like they do in the first which is equally as rubbish an idea. There's no easy solution really bar an AIL and that particular topic has been done to death over the years!

**gufcfan** · 19/05/2011, 6:01 AM

Originally Posted by colonelwest

Have to say I'm completely against a split for the last round of games. You only have to look at Scotland to see how well that's working out, Motherwell finished top six before the split and come the end of the season Inverness, who were in the bottom half, ended up 7 points better off and would have finished fifth ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock if the split wasn't there!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

Originally Posted by colonelwest

The same has happened up North with Coleraine, Dungannon and Ballymena having more points than the teams immediately above them in the table come the end of the season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

Neither point hold any water, as the points gained were against teams in their own side of the split.

Motherwell played Rangers, Celtic and Dundee who hammered them. They managed a draw against the two other top 6 teams, Kilmarnock and Hearts.

Caley Thistle won 5 of their 6 games after the split, against bottom half teams. They did beat Celtic 3-2 at home in the middle of that, but it was a re-arranged fixture from before the split.

In the north, Distillery had to play Linfield, Crusaders, Glentoran, Cliftonville (the only team that didn't beat them) and Portadown.

Coleraine, Dungannon and Ballymena played each other, as well as the bottom three of Glenavon, Donegal Celtic and Newry who hadn't won a game since 2010.

**legendz** · 21/05/2011, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by colonelwest

Have to say I'm completely against a split for the last round of games. You only have to look at Scotland to see how well that's working out, Motherwell finished top six before the split and come the end of the season Inverness, who were in the bottom half, ended up 7 points better off and would have finished fifth ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock if the split wasn't there!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

The same has happened up North with Coleraine, Dungannon and Ballymena having more points than the teams immediately above them in the table come the end of the season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...es/default.stm

10 teams is too small for a national league with repitition being the killer but the one advantage it has is that you get an even number of home and away games per season. Whereas with 12 (or even up to 16 teams) it'll either have to be play each other 3 times, a split after 2 rounds or rotate the extra home game on a season by season basis like they do in the first which is equally as rubbish an idea. There's no easy solution really bar an AIL and that particular topic has been done to death over the years!

I'd agree with you for being with the split but would have to agree with the poster who points out that points earned in the lower half were against tougher opposition.

The Dane's have a 12 team top division. The Danish league is having decent success in Europe. The top two teams from their league will enter the Champions League qualifiers. They've shown 12 teams playing 3 times a season can work. The LoI had that before, there's no reason why that format can't be brought back. There is a slight imbalance in terms of the number of home and away games. The Danish system for dealing with that is that the prise for finishing in the top 6 is being rewarded the extra home game for the following season.

**gufcfan** · 22/05/2011, 1:05 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

The Dane's have a 12 team top division. The Danish league is having decent success in Europe.

Originally Posted by legendz

The top two teams from their league will enter the Champions League qualifiers. They've shown 12 teams playing 3 times a season can work.

You make these two points as if the 12 team premier is the reason for their success in Europe.

**legendz** · 22/05/2011, 4:06 PM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

You make these two points as if the 12 team premier is the reason for their success in Europe.

It's not the reason for their success but they've shown that the system can work.

**pineapple stu** · 22/05/2011, 4:53 PM

Without defining what you mean by "can work", the claim is meaningless.

**colonelwest** · 24/05/2011, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

Neither point hold any water, as the points gained were against teams in their own side of the split.

Motherwell played Rangers, Celtic and Dundee who hammered them. They managed a draw against the two other top 6 teams, Kilmarnock and Hearts.

Caley Thistle won 5 of their 6 games after the split, against bottom half teams. They did beat Celtic 3-2 at home in the middle of that, but it was a re-arranged fixture from before the split.

In the north, Distillery had to play Linfield, Crusaders, Glentoran, Cliftonville (the only team that didn't beat them) and Portadown.

Coleraine, Dungannon and Ballymena played each other, as well as the bottom three of Glenavon, Donegal Celtic and Newry who hadn't won a game since 2010.

Originally Posted by legendz

I'd agree with you for being with the split but would have to agree with the poster who points out that points earned in the lower half were against tougher opposition.

The Dane's have a 12 team top division. The Danish league is having decent success in Europe. The top two teams from their league will enter the Champions League qualifiers. They've shown 12 teams playing 3 times a season can work. The LoI had that before, there's no reason why that format can't be brought back. There is a slight imbalance in terms of the number of home and away games. The Danish system for dealing with that is that the prise for finishing in the top 6 is being rewarded the extra home game for the following season.

Agreed on the first point lads, forgot to mention it myself but having said that it does make for some strange outcomes with the table come the end of the season which on first glance looks ridiculous. The main issue with a split I have is that a team (or teams) could still be in with a shout for European football come the last 5 games and then the split happens and they're left playing for nothing for the rest of the season, it makes the table lob sided on both sides of it. The thing with having such a small league is that mid table is pretty much an illusion and you could theoretically be within touching distance of Europe or the relegation play offs on either side at the time the 33rd game rolls around. A 33 game season with the extra home game the following year is probably the best idea of a bad bunch. The one thing we have over here to play around with is the length of the off season break which is one of the longest in Europe, bar the Scandinavian countries for obvious reasons, with a 12 team league the start should be dropped back a week or two and the end extended a week or two to avoid congestion and space the fixtures out so you don't end up with 4 or 5 away games on the hop as happens with the way things are.

One thing I would like to see brought in is the Dutch idea of a play off for the final European spot, slightly different from a split and something would have to be done about the lower teams but sure there's no easy answers!

**legendz** · 25/05/2011, 10:31 PM

The Dutch have a good system with that play-off. I think you'd need at least 16 in the top flight to make it work. When a 12 team Premier comes in, I hope a 12 team 1st Division can be formed as well. Generally across Europe the league structure is that the second level should have the same amount if not more clubs than the top division. The point is that there is a certain number of playing pool in the second tier and at the top level then the number of the playing pool is the same, if not less but it will be the elite players. It's one of the reason I go on about the A championship or any 3rd tier. A strong league needs a strong second and third tier as well.

**JM2010** · 26/05/2011, 10:47 AM

Hasn't there been alot of talk that the 4 non reserve side's in the A Championship are going to be incorporated into the league next season? This would mean a total of 25 teams in the league. Would this result in a 12 team Premier and 13 team First Division?

**legendz** · 26/05/2011, 11:30 AM

Heggy's generally the man that has all the answers regards the way things are going to shape up. Personally I think they should go with 12 and 12, with an optional reserve division where aspiring clubs can be involved as well. Anyways, I'm sure we'll get the official word at some stage over the next few months.

**peadar1987** · 30/05/2011, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

Heggy's generally the man that has all the answers regards the way things are going to shape up. Personally I think they should go with 12 and 12, with an optional reserve division where aspiring clubs can be involved as well. Anyways, I'm sure we'll get the official word at some stage over the next few months.

You still don't get this FAI thing, do you?

**colonelwest** · 31/05/2011, 8:02 PM

One of the lads on orielweb was saying that the split is due to happen after 22 games next season, so after two rounds. How true that is I don't know but although it would give an even amount of home and away games the reptition would be as bad if not worse than it currently is.

**holidaysong** · 01/06/2011, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by colonelwest

One of the lads on orielweb was saying that the split is due to happen after 22 games next season, so after two rounds. How true that is I don't know but although it would give an even amount of home and away games the reptition would be as bad if not worse than it currently is.

It was mentioned in this Irish Independent article at the time of the decision being taken:

There are currently 10 teams in the top flight, and that is now set to rise by two for the 2012 campaign. It is envisaged they will each play each other twice before the league splits into two after 22 games, with the teams in the respective halves encountering each other twice more in the final run-in.

22 +10 = 32 games.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2434748.html

**BonnieShels** · 01/06/2011, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

It was mentioned in this Irish Independent article at the time of the decision being taken:

22 +10 = 32 games.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2434748.html

So let's have a 16 team division in that case and let everyone play each other twice and stop the nonsense of multiple games.

**Dodge** · 01/06/2011, 8:24 PM

Is two not a multiple?

It's been at least 3 for the past 25 years.

**peadar1987** · 01/06/2011, 8:49 PM

Everyone plays each other once at home, once away, and the third game as part of a "magic weekend", to be held in Termonbarry, with monkey knife fights at half time, and Xano as ref. If I could work Paul Doolin's weight into it somehow, we'd have a full set of foot.ie memes!