How awful are RTE's panellists?

[endabob1]

Daylight is the rule I thought

[pineapple stu]

Changed in 2005 - "Any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent (the last opponent typically being the goalkeeper). The arms are not included in this definition" - from wikipedia from the laws of the game per FIFA.

[bennocelt]

Don't know what they're complaining about though. They've won all their games, scoring a fair quota of goals. They've only won one game 1-0. If they win the final, they deserve the trophy. I have been very impressed with them.

Not me, think they have only played well for about 20 minutes in the whole tournament. Like their cheating too, esp Robben, and if Brazil had got their act together they should have knocked them out

[mypost]

They've scored an average of 2 goals a game, they have great players in Sneijder, Robben, Van Bommel, Van Bronkhorst, and decent ones throughout the side. They've beaten teams from Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. If they do win it, they'll deserve it.

[bennocelt]

They've scored an average of 2 goals a game, they have great players in Sneijder, Robben, Van Bommel, Van Bronkhorst, and decent ones throughout the side. They've beaten teams from Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. If they do win it, they'll deserve it.

Yeah and they havent played well for most of those games......................

[jbyrne]

Yeah and they havent played well for most of those games......................

says a lot about the teams they have played then.
havnt they won all their qualifiers also? If they are unbeaten for the qualifiers and the finals then they are worthy winners. who has played well this wc really?

[bennocelt]

says a lot about the teams they have played then.
havnt they won all their qualifiers also? If they are unbeaten for the qualifiers and the finals then they are worthy winners. who has played well this wc really?

And the standard of football
Germany

[Stuttgart88]

says a lot about the teams they have played then.
havnt they won all their qualifiers also? If they are unbeaten for the qualifiers and the finals then they are worthy winners. who has played well this wc really?

They won their first 3 games in Euro 2008, then lost to Portugal. They then won all 8 qualifiers and have won 6 out of 6 in normal time in Sth Africa. 17 wins in their last 18 competitive games is remarkable. I just posted more on the Dutch on the "shameful moments" thread so i won't repeat it here.

Wrt the general standard of football I think it's been OK. We all know that the best club teams that we watch so often are probably better than almost every international team. Gone are the days where we'd watch a WC and we'd witness a whole new footballing culture - we know alnmost everything about global football just from our armchairs these days. The beauty of international football is that the gap between good and bad is much narrower than it used to be, and I just love the fact that money can't buy success like it does in club football.

Long live international football and the world Cup. I love it.

[osarusan]

I think the argument that the dutch would be worthy winners isn't necessarily contradicting the argument that they haven't been brilliant. Any team which knocks out Brazil and beats Germany / Spain in the final will deserve it, as will either Germany or spain, as they've had good results also.

That said, neither Holland or Spain have played the kind of football I'd like to see WC winners play. In Holland's case, they haven't tried to, and Spain just haven't done it consistently. Germany, for me, have been the most exciting team to watch, and I'd like them to win it because of that.

[bennocelt]

I think the argument that the dutch would be worthy winners isn't necessarily contradicting the argument that they haven't been brilliant. Any team which knocks out Brazil and beats Germany / Spain in the final will deserve it, as will either Germany or spain, as they've had good results also.

That said, neither Holland or Spain have played the kind of football I'd like to see WC winners play. In Holland's case, they haven't tried to, and Spain just haven't done it consistently. Germany, for me, have been the most exciting team to watch, and I'd like them to win it because of that.

yeah agree 100%, pity I have all my bets lying with Spain though!!!!

[mypost]

That said, neither Holland or Spain have played the kind of football I'd like to see WC winners play.

And what kind of football is that?

The current champions, play some of the most boring football on the planet, and needed penalties to win a god awful final last time.

You don't win prizes for playing attractive football, you win them by winning your games. That's what the Dutch have done, nobody can argue with their record, and with the record they have, they have to be a formidable side.

[Charlie Darwin]

They won their first 3 games in Euro 2008, then lost to Portugal. They then won all 8 qualifiers and have won 6 out of 6 in normal time in Sth Africa. 17 wins in their last 18 competitive games is remarkable. I just posted more on the Dutch on the "shameful moments" thread so i won't repeat it here.

Wrt the general standard of football I think it's been OK. We all know that the best club teams that we watch so often are probably better than almost every international team. Gone are the days where we'd watch a WC and we'd witness a whole new footballing culture - we know alnmost everything about global football just from our armchairs these days. The beauty of international football is that the gap between good and bad is much narrower than it used to be, and I just love the fact that money can't buy success like it does in club football.

Long live international football and the world Cup. I love it.

They lost to Russia at the Euros, didn't they?

[pineapple stu]

I think the argument that the dutch would be worthy winners isn't necessarily contradicting the argument that they haven't been brilliant.

Agreed. It's like saying whoever wins the LoI this year will probably deserve it (table never lies over 36 games and all that), but they still won't have been any good.

[OwlsFan]

The Dutch tried winning it with beautiful football before and it didn't work. This time it's pragmatic football. Having lost it twice before and since all the RTE Panel will support Spain, I think I would like the Netherlands to win. The Spanish have their European Title. Other than Arjen Robben falling over ever time he is touched, I quite like them. Their fans always travel in numbers like us.

Hup Holland.

[Dodge]

Didn’t get involved in this thread as I don’t believe in over analysing the analysts. However some thoughts on the various panels.

RTE
Usual tripe. They confuse being negative for the sack of it with being “honest”. Rarely ever give anybody any credit. Giles knowledge is appalling but at least he understands the game. Dunphy’s a cartoon and I still hate O’Herlihy. Do we still need the “dumb everyman” style of presenting? Surely we’re a bit more savvy than that? I think Whelan is the worst type of cliché prone pundit. Football’s changed Ronnie, it isn’t the 80s anymore. Souness isn’t great but he at least he adds a dissenting voice every now and again. On the co-commentary front I have particular disdain for Houghton (same reason as Whelan, also very negative). I don’t mind Steven. Think he at least tries to analyse stuff. Can be entertaining in a “two drunks trying to punch each other” kind of way

BBC
Have the best analyst around in Lee Dixon IMO. Sometimes gets carried away with the jolly boys atmosphere along with Lineker, Hanson and Shearer but one of the few who gives insight to the game. The big three are horrendous. Remember when Hanson gave a ****? Shearer is at the same level as Townsend and Redknapp now. Colin Murray is an absolute tool. Another who confuses controversy for having an opinion. On the co-commentary front I’m not a fan of Lawrenson (and his refusal to budge from an opinion, however wrong it may be proven) but he’s OK. Mark Bright made the single worst comment I’ve heard watching football. On Messi “I don’t get the hype. The two or three times I’ve seen him play he hasn’t been great. Doesn’t look interested enough for me”. How can a commentator have a job having only seen Messi 2 or 3 times. And how can he be allowed spout rubbish about ANY player he’s only seen 2 or 3 times?

ITV
Worse again. Saved from total embarrassment by Southgate’s occasional good point. He argued with Townsend that maybe the Premiership isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and that English players aren’t as good as some make out (when all tried to lay blame solely on Capello’s door). Can resoprt to bland generalistions though. The rest are beyond awful; Keegan and Townsend as bad as any in my time watching TV. On the co-commentary front Beglin is quite good. Can get stuck in his opinion in a Hamliton way but generally looks at the game on its own.

Not many of the “guests” brought anything to any of the stations. Maybe Klinsmann and Seedorrf on BBC but the likes of Adeboyer, Davids etc were all rubbish.

Football is so much better when not on TV…

[shakermaker1982]

I wouldn't really disagree with anything you've said there Dodge (I cannot comment on RTE because I don't get to see it, bar watching replays on youtube) bar you describing Lawro as ok. I'd describe him as a miserable ******* ******. Other than that your spot on!

The only positives from this WC have been Klinsmann and Beglin. Beglin on ITV knows his football and it's a shame he is paired up with Tyldesley. BBC should have brought O'Neill to South Africa.

[OwlsFan]

Scene: World Cup game between Togo and Spain.

Panel: Bill O'Herlihy (Laughing Bill), John Giles (Father Time), Ronnie Whelan (When I played at Liverpool) and Eamon Dunphy (I agree with John):

Bill: (sitting in a chair 6 times to big for him) Now, I read in the Beano that Togo, also known as the Sparrow Eagles, are favourites to beat Spain by 3 clear goals. Do you agree with that Eamon?
Dunphy: That's rubbish Bill and by the way they're the Sparrow Hawks (hiding his copy of the Beano under the table).
Bill: laughs. You’re not going to give me the bird, are you Eamon?
Panel: Breaks in to laughter.
Dunphy: Although Spain are weak at the back, I know a lot about Spanish football by the way, Togo will be like a bull fighting against 11 matadors.
Bill: laughs. As the Senior Analyst, do you agree with that John?
Giles: (tugs on his jacket and attempts to be seen above the desk but still leans back) I agree with Eamon, Bill. Spain will have too much class for Togo, Bill. They are a bit weak at the back though, Bill.
Bill: Do you agree with that, Ronnie?
Whelan: (sitting upright and looking as if his piles are at him): I agree with Eamon and John. Spain will have too much class for Togo. They are a bit weak at the back though.
Bill (reading notes) : Togo beat Bophuthatswana 1-0 in a warm up game. Should we read much in to that, John?
Giles: (shifts uneasily in the chair, tugs at his jacket and looks at Dunphy): You can only beat who are put in front of you, Bill, but I wouldn’t read much in to that, Bill.
Bill: Ronnie, do you agree with the senior analyst?
Whelan: I agree with John. You can only beat who are put in front of you but I wouldn’t read much in to that.
Dunphy: Bophuthatswana are the Hartlepool of Africa, Bill. They’re rubbish.
Bill: laughs
Dunphy: Having seen a lot of Spanish football on tv when I go for a swift half or two to Davy Byrnes, I can tell you that the Spanish are a class act, although weak at the back. They’ll wipe the floor with these guys. Their manager is a clown. Their striker, Mohamed Kadir, is a cheat.
Bill: You’ve seen them play?
Dunphy: (looking uncomfortable) – Trust me Bill, they’re rubbish.
Bill: (laughs): Ronnie?
Whelan: They’ll wipe the floor with these guys. Their manager is a clown. Their striker, Mohamed Kadir, is a cheat.
Bill: John?
Giles: (tugs on jacket) - I agree with Eamon. You can only beat what is put in front of you. I know I am repeating myself but you can only beat what is put in front of you.
Dunphy: Togo have a tough midfielder. Likes to get his retaliation in first. Reminds me of John.
Panel: breaks in to hysterical laughter although they have heard this 73 times before.
Giles: preens (and tugs on his jacket).
Whelan: Togo have a tough midfielder. Likes to get his retaliation in first. Reminds me of John.
Panel: No one laughs.
Bill: We have a clip here showing Togo find it hard to keep possession (30 second clip shown of Togo giving the ball away twice in a 90 minute game).
Dunphy: If these guys give the ball away like this, Spain will murder them although they are weak at the back.
Giles: (tugs at jacket). Bill, I agree with Eamon. Tonga need to retain possession, Bill ((Dunphy: Togo, John, Togo)). Togo or whatever they are called need to get the ball down and play, Bill. I know I am repeating myself but they need to get the ball down and play, Bill
Whelan (facial expression hasn’t changed in 15 minutes). I agree with John and Eamon. If these guys give the ball away like this, Spain will murder them although they are weak at the back. They need to get the ball down and play.
Bill: Do you need to keep possession and score goals to win a game?

[Real ale Madrid]

Apres match is better.

[Stuttgart88]

They lost to Russia at the Euros, didn't they?

Think you're right actually. For some reason I thought it was Portugal, with Russian ref, the one who looks like Fr. Dick Byrne.

[Junior]

Mark Bright made the single worst comment I’ve heard watching football. On Messi “I don’t get the hype. The two or three times I’ve seen him play he hasn’t been great. Doesn’t look interested enough for me”. How can a commentator have a job having only seen Messi 2 or 3 times. And how can he be allowed spout rubbish about ANY player he’s only seen 2 or 3 times?

Cant say I disagree with with most of the ITV / BBC Comments and I cant stand Mark Bright as a pundit, though I think you are being a little harsh with regards to Brights comments on Messi. Alan Davies has a weekly podcast called "Armchair World Cup" or something similiar and they ripped the pi$$ out of that as well. In fairness, he said he had only seen Messi 2 or 3 times live and in those games Messi had been quiet/ineffective - words to that effect anyway. Pretty silly comment to make after the season he's had but not quite as stupid as has been made out.