Player eligibility row

[Charlie Darwin]

I wonder if there will be as many pedants at the match as there are around here.

I don't think "Come on you boys in the darker shade of green" rolls off the tongue as well as the current chant.

"Dan dan danana danana Republicofireland!"

[EalingGreen]

However I'd worry that we me may encounter some of the hooligans that came to Dublin when Glentoran were here recently.

Can't comment on that game, since I wasn't there.

Or indeed those that fought with the Polish in Belfast

Can comment on this, since I was there. The simple fact is, all the aggression and provocation etc came from a small hooligan section of the Polish support, as evidenced by the arrests and the Court convictions, and acknowledged by the PSNI and the local Polish Community Association representatives and (by implication) by FIFA, whose match observers took no action against the IFA.
Of course, you might know that, too, had you been there (and had the integrity to acknowledge it, which I doubt).

Anyhow, I, too, hope that the ROI/NI game passes off peacefully, though I am not so confident, since I fear it has the capacity to attract scumbags from both Belfast & Dublin etc, who may attach themselves to "their" respective teams for the day.

Let's hope the Gardai can both identify any troublemakers early and mete out whatever "summary justice" they see fit.

[ifk101]

I was not "twisting" anything - that was KK/Endgame. As for my references to Cliftonville, those were merely to refute KK/Endgame's slur that WP is a "no go" area for Nationalists, by pointing out that a predominantly Nationalist-supported club can happily play European games there, even during the height of the 'Marching Season'.
Ditto KK/Endgame's allegations of "loyalist bias" at the IFA etc, where I pointed out their assistance to C'ville.
As for my having a "sly dig" at their fans, that was not my point*, but even if it were, what would that have to do with you? You a big fan of the Wee Reds or IL football these days? Why do you take exception to my posts, whilst ignoring those of a stirrer like KK?

Cliftonville chose the Oval as their choice of venue. Circumstances dictated that Windsor was where the match would/ was played. Again you had a sly little dig about nationalist going to Windsor - whatever. I haven't seen you post on the Irish League forum btw. Again I didn't click on KK's link - I know better

* - Fyi, I have nothing for/against C'ville or their fans; in fact I was pleased for them for last night's victory

High five.

You don't appear to uinderstand the difference between "reasoned" and "reasonable". When I said my reply to KK was "reasoned", I meant that I gave reasons to support my case. Of course it is for others to decide for themselves whether that case is reasonable (valid) or not.

Was it reasoned to bring Cliftonville into the conversation? Anyways Cliftonville wouldn't be the first club I (and I presume others) think of in Belfast with a nationalist leaning.

Are you implying that I am not a "genuine NI fan"?

No.

Other posters (eg Lionel R, Danny I, Co.Down Green, AWEC, Mr. Parker etc) have replied to my posts with informed, reasoned opinions of their own, some of which support me, others which don't (fair enough).
Whereas your most recent posts on this thread (#'s 975, 982, 984), are all barely concealed ad hominem attacks on me, which otherwise contribute precisely nothing to the debate. Then again, since you apparently know sod-all about football in Belfast etc, that should hardly be any surprise.

I'm no expert EG, hence why I asked questions to learn more. I take it from your failure to answer them that you're no expert either.

If I thought KK was merely "fishing" by posting that Endgame tripe, I would, indeed, leave it. But it is clear from his other NI-related posts that he entirely agrees with the prejudiced bile contained therein.
Even then I might be prepared to leave it at that, since it is obvious that no amount of reasoning or evidence is likely to change his particular closed mind.
However, there are other, less informed Members of this Board who might be casually persuaded by such rants, to one degree or another.
Therefore, I choose to reply to KK, as a means of "setting straight the record" (as I see it).
Meanwhile, you appear to have no informed view on the "record", but pile in with your posts anyhow...

I don't always agree with you EG. No.

I will "be" whatever way I like. But however that may be, I will try to practice what I preach.
Speaking of which, I note that you continue to contradict your own "preaching", by neither reporting me to the Mods, nor adding me to your "Ignore List".

You have your own forum to play on. If you don't want me commenting on your posts, don't post in the forum(s) I read. You can add me to your ignore list if you so wish. Cheerio.

[awec]

Cliftonville are the biggest club whose support is predominantly nationalist, so they would be most people's first thought when thinking along those lines.

You're the one who keeps trying to make some point about him having a go at cville, when he clearly isn't.

[ifk101]

Cliftonville are the biggest club whose support is predominantly nationalist, so they would be most people's first thought when thinking along those lines.

Well it's a matter of opinion I suppose.

You're the one who keeps trying to make some point about him having a go at cville, when he clearly isn't.

Strange one, that, all the more since whilst WP is accessible/acceptable to them as Reds fans, it somehow ceases to become so (as Nationalists) when NI play there.

I beg(gar) to differ.

[Den Perry]

Can't comment on that game, since I wasn't there.

Can comment on this, since I was there. The simple fact is, all the aggression and provocation etc came from a small hooligan section of the Polish support, as evidenced by the arrests and the Court convictions, and acknowledged by the PSNI and the local Polish Community Association representatives and (by implication) by FIFA, whose match observers took no action against the IFA.
Of course, you might know that, too, had you been there (and had the integrity to acknowledge it, which I doubt).

Anyhow, I, too, hope that the ROI/NI game passes off peacefully, though I am not so confident, since I fear it has the capacity to attract scumbags from both Belfast & Dublin etc, who may attach themselves to "their" respective teams for the day.

Let's hope the Gardai can both identify any troublemakers early and mete out whatever "summary justice" they see fit.

And there is no history of wrongful arrest,wrongful conviction in NI?

Of course, I wasn't there. What business would I have there.....?

[ArdeeBhoy]

However, just to demonstrate what a pr1ck the Author really is, in order to justify his naked prejudice, he originally claimed that "The stadium Windsor Park is located in the heart of Loyalist East [sic] Belfast".

But when someone/something drew his attention to his geographical ignorance, rather than acknowledge his mistake, or excise the comment completely, he replaced it with: "The stadium Windsor Park is located in a staunchly loyalist area of Belfast etc"

Perhaps he hoped we wouldn't notice?

P.S. For information, WP is in South Belfast, which is the most mixed (and middle-class) area of the entire city. And although one side of the Stadium backs onto a Loyalist enclave called the Village, all the main approaches to Windsor (car, bus, foot etc) are from other directions, which is why in 40 years of attending matches, I have never once chosen or had to go through the Village.

Hmm. Would almost say Pairc Saxe-Coburg Gotha almost has a central location, given it's around 1 mile? max.from the centre of Beal-feirste?
Been into the S.Beal-feirste N.of I.S.C.(almost incognito) but never ventured into The Village, though I do hear it's full of idiots!
And on my visits there to the ground, have been via the Malone Road which is about as middle-class as it comes (There seems to be no flag fascination there!!)....


As for Cliftonville, if they were seriously going to Linfield then they may as well go to Casement.....

Finally, it's the usual gross hypocrisy of EG & his ilk to moan about their digs at C'ville when they continue to use the 'B' word (& worse) so liberally......

[Charlie Darwin]

You realise you're the only person who calls it Pairc Saxe-Coburg Gotha, right? And nobody will ever follow your lead?

[DannyInvincible]

I thought it was quite witty.

[awec]

Hmm. Would almost say Pairc Saxe-Coburg Gotha almost has a central location, given it's around 1 mile? max.from the centre of Beal-feirste?
Been into the S.Beal-feirste N.of I.S.C.(almost incognito) but never ventured into The Village, though I do hear it's full of idiots!
And on my visits there to the ground, have been via the Malone Road which is about as middle-class as it comes (There seems to be no flag fascination there!!)....


As for Cliftonville, if they were seriously going to Linfield then they may as well go to Casement.....

Finally, it's the usual gross hypocrisy of EG & his ilk to moan about their digs at C'ville when they continue to use the 'B' word (& worse) so liberally......

Windsor Park is in the heart of South Belfast. It's certainly not "central" Belfast.

The Village is a bit of a kip that has suffered from under-investment. There is some student accomodation in it, but it would be amongst the cheapest, most run down student accomodation available. Windsor backs onto the very edge of it, it's not as if it's right in the middle of it all.

The Malone Road is majority nationalist these days (which shouldn't surprise you as South Belfast is very mixed and the most upper class part of the city), but as you say it's all posh well-to-do families. This road also has a high student population.

Why would Cliftonville choose a GAA stadium over a football one? Seems a bit nuts that. It's on the Andersontown Road anyway, certainly wouldn't be the most welcoming place to bring visitors.

[awec]

Some people need to wise up and get off the offended bus and stop this "you had a sly dig at us nationalist cliftonville fans". He did nothing of the sort.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Windsor Park is in the heart of South Belfast. It's certainly not "central" Belfast.



Why would Cliftonville choose a GAA stadium over a football one? Seems a bit nuts that. It's on the Andersontown Road anyway, certainly wouldn't be the most welcoming place to bring visitors.

OK, Beal-feirste is a smallish city, but a mile from the centre is hardly a vast distance. Surely Malone is S.Beal-feirste proper?
And wasn't P S-CG formerly (if not still?) in the West Beal-feirste constituency??

As for Casement, at least it's in a nationalist area not too far from P S-CG, which is probably preferable to most of the C'ville's fans......

Finally re. the name being 'original', CD, seem to remember it popping up on various fora, going back over the last decade!

[Nedser]

By referring to your team as "Ireland", you are having a dig at my team, therefore me. For whilst I normally accept the (incorrect but) casual use of "Ireland" on threads like these when referring to the FAI team generally, when it is placed directly alongside the NI team, it is quite simply wrong (and irritating).

Seeing as it is actually easier, quicker and more correct to post "ROI" (and NI), it is arguably you who is being pedantic, by insisting on "Ireland".

Funny how EG is obsessed with ensuring that everyone uses the official FIFA-endorsed name for the football team (Republic of Ireland), yet when he refers to the independent country that it represents, he refuses to use the official, internationally recognised name for that country (Ireland). For example, see his repeated references to the supposed irredentist citizenship policy of "the Republic of Ireland".

The reality is, it's perfectly natural for people to use the same name for their country and the team that represents it. Sadly, FIFA took the unprecedented decision to prevent the FAI from calling its international football team by the same name as the internationally-accepted name for the country that it represents.

Of course, FIFA took that decision because the UK associations abused their (undemocratic) position of power within FIFA to ensure they did so. If there had been a Court of Arbitration for Sport in 1953, when FIFA made that ruling, I'm pretty sure it would have been overturned. If you try to look at it objectively, the situation was as follows:
- Two distinct teams wanted to call themselves "Ireland"
- One of those teams represented an independent country called "Ireland"
- The other represented a region known as "Northern Ireland", which lies within a country called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It's pretty obvious that one team was perfectly entitled to call itself "Ireland" and the other was not.

Anyway, if EG wants to use only officially "correct" names all round, then that's up to him. But if he continues to use "ROI" for both the football team and the country, then he's just a hypocrite. Either way, nothing that FIFA or EG say is going to change the terminology I use - as I see it, I come from a country called Ireland, so I will continue to call my national football team "Ireland".

[seanfhear]

Arguing over a name is a bit pedantic IMO, live and let live.

My worry is when NI play the ROI, there'll be hangers on from both sides who'll do their best to darken the name of both countries and ruin what would be a fantastic day for all genuine supporters.

Hopefully I'm wrong though.

I too am afraid that it will attract the idiots from both sides.

Could someone not organise a parade or something for that day so that the idiots from both sides would have their normal idiotic roles to play and stay away from the football please.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good shout Nedser...
Though I suspect the IFA name issue will be kicked back into play.

[Gather round]

I would gladly take 3 hammerings in the Celtic...cup if we could be guaranteed that we'd be in Poland/Ukraine for the finals of a really important tournament in June 2012. So I don't think it will really settle too much on the pitch next year when we play. We have 2 huge games v Macedonia in the first half of 2011 and some friendlies

I think the difference may be that most NI and Wales fans (and a fair proportion of the Scots) don't seriously expect to qualify. Which makes a revived four-hander more attractive. Including to the OWC hardhore, however p*ssed off with the FAI they may be at the moment.

And there is no history of wrongful arrest,wrongful conviction in NI?

Of course, I wasn't there. What business would I have there.....?

Ha ha, top quality whataboutery there

Hmm. Would almost say Pairc Saxe-Coburg Gotha almost has a central location, given it's around 1 mile? max.from the centre of Beal-feirste?

If you said that, you'd be wrong. It's about two miles by road.

Been into the S.Beal-feirste N.of I.S.C.(almost incognito)

Let me guess. You were quite content to enjoy your pint and chat to the locals until getting bored and outing yourself as that sh*t-stirrer on the internet?

but never ventured into The Village, though I do hear it's full of idiots!

Don't believe all you hear. It has- has long had- a largely transient population. Students, nurses from nearby hospitals, refugees and so on.

And on my visits there to the ground, have been via the Malone Road which is about as middle-class as it comes (There seems to be no flag fascination there!!)....

Aye, you almost certainly entered from Windsor Ave or one of the parallel streets which run across the Lisburn Road to the ground.

The reality is, it's perfectly natural for people to use the same name for their country and the team that represents it

Indeed. The only logical solution is for you to rename the country (don't write in, I'm joking).

Sadly, FIFA took the unprecedented decision to prevent the FAI from calling its international football team by the same name as the internationally-accepted name for the country that it represents

When I lived in Dublin as a student (early 80s), many locals referred to the country as the Republic. I realise they don't now, these things can change over time. But as AWEC suggests above, it's not really that big a deal. Many people in NI (mainly but not exclusively unionists) get a bit irritated at 'Ireland' being equated with just the Republic, but we should probably just get over it. Ditto people in the Republic who don't like being referred to as the South. There are similar examples elsewhere- province of Luxembourg in Belgium on the border, for example.

If there had been a Court of Arbitration for Sport in 1953, when FIFA made that ruling, I'm pretty sure it would have been overturned

Who knows? Maybe the court would have applied that most basic legal principle, to ignore trivia. As you say, pretty much everyone Worldwide now calls the Republic Ireland or the local language equivalent. Even in Britain, even the Daily Telegraph. It's only really a problem if you insist that everyone in Northern Ireland does too, because in practice they won't and we'll all be upsetting ourselves unnecessarily.

I too am afraid that it will attract the idiots from both sides.

Could someone not organise a parade or something for that day so that the idiots from both sides would have their normal idiotic roles to play and stay away from the football please

Ha ha. You're a bad man

Like others above, I don't want to exaggerate the likelihood of trouble at the game. In reality, a match against England or Northern Ireland (or at a pinch, Scotland and nowadays France) in Dublin will have a tenser atmosphere than most, and you'd expect the Gardai to plan and Police accordingly.

[gspain]

BTW Windsor Park had it's name before the British Royal family took the name Windsor.

[ArdeeBhoy]

If you said that, you'd be wrong. It's about two miles by road.

OK, 2 miles from say City Hall, but a mile as in from the edge of the centre.

Let me guess. You were quite content to enjoy your pint and chat to the locals until getting bored and outing yourself as that sh*t-stirrer on the internet?

Presumably you are being ironic about the sh*t-stirring bot, re. your good self? Lol.
As for outing myself, that only came about when slagging off David Healy for being useless in club football. And an even more useless individual, known to many on here, crossing himself.....

When I lived in Dublin as a student (early 80s), many locals referred to the country as the Republic.

Hmm. Yeah, right.

Funny how time plays tricks with the memory!

Barely anyone in Ireland has ever used the phrase the 'Republic', except maybe a few Dubs over the years, in a soccer context. And a few English people perhaps more widely, though now they mainly say Ireland and the North/Northern Ireland.

[Nedser]

Who knows? Maybe the court would have applied that most basic legal principle, to ignore trivia. As you say, pretty much everyone Worldwide now calls the Republic Ireland or the local language equivalent. Even in Britain, even the Daily Telegraph. It's only really a problem if you insist that everyone in Northern Ireland does too, because in practice they won't and we'll all be upsetting ourselves unnecessarily.

It goes a bit beyond what "pretty much everyone Worldwide now calls" it ....... the name of the country as defined in it its own constitution is "Ireland", the name recognised by the EU is "Ireland" (see http://europa.eu/about-eu/27-member-...s/index_en.htm), the name recognised by the UN is "Ireland" (see http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml#i). It's even the name used by the "British" (sic) embassy in Ireland (http://britishembassyinireland.fco.gov.uk/en/). I could go on. Bottom line - it's not just a colloquialism, it's the internationally recognised official name of the country. Having said that, I have no intention of insisting that unionists from Northern Ireland or anywhere else use the correct name - they can choose to use whatever words they like, and at the end of the day, there are far bigger things to get wound up about.

[awec]

OK, Beal-feirste is a smallish city, but a mile from the centre is hardly a vast distance. Surely Malone is S.Beal-feirste proper?
And wasn't P S-CG formerly (if not still?) in the West Beal-feirste constituency??

As for Casement, at least it's in a nationalist area not too far from P S-CG, which is probably preferable to most of the C'ville's fans......

Finally re. the name being 'original', CD, seem to remember it popping up on various fora, going back over the last decade!

No? It's South Belfast. The Malone Road is south belfast and the Lisburn Road (which Windsor is just off) runs along side it.

I doubt you'd find many Cliftonville fans who'd prefer to play at Casement than Windsor.

BTW Windsor Park had it's name before the British Royal family took the name Windsor.

It's named after the area of Belfast.