Potentially eligible players thread

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Really? I read that he could be available for the Germany game.

[Charlie Darwin]

Really? I read that he could be available for the Germany game.

It's unlikely he will be cleared that quickly. It took Shane Duffy six months to get clearance, McClean something similar.

[DeLorean]

There is no way he should be shifting McCarthy, Hoolahan, Reid, Hendrick, Gibson, Meyler or even Whelan.

Well I think that's something we can all agree on.

[DannyInvincible]

Really? I read that he could be available for the Germany game.

Balls.ie stated that "a fast track passport would mean that Noble could be ready to make his debut against World Champions Germany": http://balls.ie/football/west-ham-pl...-ireland-call/

From where they got their info, I'm not sure, as the Daily Mail piece mentioned nothing about a "fast-track passport". Balls.ie also don't appear to have considered the administrative side of things, as in FIFA approving any request to switch. The length of time that process takes can very, but it can take a few weeks at the very least, as far as I know.

Edit: Or months, in some cases, as Charlie points out. I'm not really sure if there's any strict time-frame, although, if memory serves me correctly, there was at least suspicion that Shane Duffy's switch was delayed as the Kearns case was ongoing at the time - FIFA may not have been processing IFA-FAI switches for a spell - even though Duffy's father is from Donegal anyway. I'm sure there are further details on this way back in the eligibility thread somewhere, but I'd need to get that confirmed.

I remember there being talk when McClean was switching that the process also required IFA action (in terms of handing over documents to FIFA or something) so they might have been lumbering on the matter, but I don't know how true that was. I don't imagine an association would be allowed to hold up a player who wishes to effect his right to switch association once.

[DannyInvincible]

The word on the street: http://balls.ie/football/audio-think...ireland-setup/

[Charlie Darwin]

Is that first guy English or Irish?

[DannyInvincible]

I'm a lot more fussy than I was at the time of Charlton and Hand. I was pleased as punch when Townsend declared but he'd probably fail now, but prove me wrong. Back then, of course, the FA was asleep at the wheel so there were fewer players then who were very clearly England holdouts who switched late. Townsend wasn't a holdout, nor was Aldridge, they were just overlooked. That's a bit different.

Of course, prior to 2004 (or 2009 for over-21s), it wasn't possible for capped youth (and friendly?) internationals to switch association at all, so we never had to consider the prospect of, say, former England youth internationals who had tied their colours to a mast, so to speak, switching to us. You could never cynically say of those players like Townsend declaring for us, "Well, look, he played for England under-age and now he's switching to us late on because his senior England plans never materialised, so we're clearly a back-up plan." Media coverage was also less saturated and all-encompassing then. There was no social media. There were no internet forums with every little detail and utterance by individuals concerned recorded, analysed, archived and easily accessed. Supporters might not have been all that aware of who was actually eligible until the players concerned had decided to get their citizenship documents in order or were first called into a squad, so there probably wasn't all this "will he or won't he?" speculation (for months or years) surrounding or in the lead-up to declarations. Would there even have been a true gut test under those limited circumstances? I can't say with certainty that this was the case but I just sense things would have been a little different then due to the limited spread of information. Maybe some of the older posters could clarify what the situation was like. We just have a lot more information available now by which we can critically judge players and their perceived motives.

[DannyInvincible]

All of that is from a footballing persepective, I have mixed feelings about him playing for us in terms of desire. It does feel a little bit like we are his back up plan now he thinks the England ship has sailed, a lot of the signs in terms of timing point to this, but we don't really know either way. There can be a whole host of reasons for this sort of thing, Kevin Gallen wanted to play for us but was more or less prevented from doing so by his club (QPR), didn't McCarthy himself say his grandad's dying wish was for him to play for Ireland and that was a big factor in him playing for us? It could be he made a decision at under 21 level with a degree of duress or under undue influence and the situation has just drifted from that decision - who knows how much contact the FAI had with him in the last few years, it could be that he feels like he has a genuine split sense of nationality - did Houghton and Townsend say they both felt very Scottish/Irish, maybe there is a situation like that? If Noble does declare for us and if says his motivation for doing it is honorable (for want of a better word) then I wouldnt have a major problem with it.

McCarthy's grandad story was slightly embellished by the media. His Donegal grandfather had always said he would have loved it if James went on to play for Ireland and he was indeed a big influence on James, but there was no promise made to him on his death-bed: http://greenscene.me/2011/01/trapatt...thy-in-quotes/

I was born in Scotland but my mother’s family are from Donegal. My grandfather, Paddy Coyle, was a big influence on me before he died and it was my intention to represent Ireland if I was lucky enough to be selected. I was a Glasgow Celtic supporter as a kid and my grandfather used to tell about the history of Celtic and the Irish International team. I spent some time in Ireland with my relatives when I was younger and my aunts and uncles are coming along to the games during the week.

People think I chose to play for the Republic because my granda asked me to. It wasn’t his last wish, like some people think. He always said he would have loved to see me play for Ireland but that’s not the reason I made my decision. The chance came for an international cap and I decided to go for it because Scotland never asked me. There was never any indication they were going to either. I know I’m still young but I wanted international experience and it meant a lot for me to get it with Ireland.

In relation to Noble, it's hard to see how he might have made the decision to play for England throughout youth level "under duress". He's always been very open about his ambition to play for England at senior level. I'm not so sure he has ever felt particularly Irish. Did he, in fact, deny that he felt Irish at one point? That's not necessarily to say that he isn't Irish. He fulfills the legal criteria, after all.

Edit: Or am I confusing Noble with Kevin Nolan as regards not feeling particularly Irish?

[Stuttgart88]

Well I think that's something we can all agree on.

I think we should be tolerant of all creeds, colours and orientations. Now if he was to shift them all, I'd be asking questions.

[Charlie Darwin]

Source is reddit, so take it with a pinch of salt:

Cork Citycolmshan1990 3 points 31 minutes ago No thank you.
I attended an U21 European Championship qualifier between Ireland and England at Turner's Cross in 2007, Noble captained England to a 3-0 win, scoring twice (and that was quite a good England side, other players included Milner, Hart and Walcott).
Both times after scoring he ran to the Irish fans (the first goal to the section where I was sat, in the family section) and screamed abuse along the lines "Take that, you fenian *******s."
Not the most offensive thing I've ever ever heard, but clearly not a player who wants to give his all for the green shirt or the Irish fans.

[Stuttgart88]

I remember that game. Randolph had a shocker. Garvan and Meyler were really good and we were unlucky to lose, let alone 3-0. I think Stokes was there too. I absolutely doubt the authenticity of that comment.

[DannyInvincible]

Crosby called. He wants to know what's so offensive about "you fenian chappers" anyway.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I remember that game. Randolph had a shocker. Garvan and Meyler were really good and we were unlucky to lose, let alone 3-0. I think Stokes was there too. I absolutely doubt the authenticity of that comment.

Why would anyone lie about something like that?

[Stuttgart88]

You're right, nobody says anything silly or untrue on the internet. Silly me.

Seriously, I think the comment sounds far fetched. Why would Noble even consider calling someone a Fenian so and so? If true it'd make him out as someone with a deep rooted dislike of the Irish, Not someone who'd play football for us even as a last resort. Instead, it sounds like some Provo nutter has been let loose on the internet.

Do you think it sounds credible?

[liamoo11]

Terry Mancini was in his 30s I think.

Bernie Slaven was 29 when he made his debut.

I still remember how worried i was that bernie would chose Scotland. Please god dont let noble bring jamie O hara or kevin Nolan on board

[ArdeeBhoy]

Too late for those two clowns...
And with Stutts on this one, am seeing some Hammers at a do tomorrow, will ask them if they think it's likely...

[DannyInvincible]

I still remember how worried i was that bernie would chose Scotland. Please god dont let noble bring jamie O hara or kevin Nolan on board

Nolan isn't eligible - he looked into it but it turned out he was a generation out - and, as it happens, O'Hara was released by Wolves today so is a free agent. His career steadily declined and I can't believe he's 27 now. Injuries didn't help. I wonder does he regret not having declared for us years ago when he was receiving rave reviews.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You're right, nobody says anything silly or untrue on the internet. Silly me.

Seriously, I think the comment sounds far fetched. Why would Noble even consider calling someone a Fenian so and so? If true it'd make him out as someone with a deep rooted dislike of the Irish, Not someone who'd play football for us even as a last resort. Instead, it sounds like some Provo nutter has been let loose on the internet.

Do you think it sounds credible?

If he's lying, it's some Walter Mitty stuff. The poster didn't even sound like he had a vendetta against English born players/Mark Noble. He just relayed an anecdote and said he would rather not have him on board. He even said it wasn't the most offensive thing he's ever heard.

Nobody knows if it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. It is a lot more culturally acceptable in England to make derogatory remarks about the Irish and excuse it as sledging or banter than it would be any other nationality/skin color.

I have seen some shocking stuff said about James McClean, John O'Shea and Seamus Coleman on English football forums that no-one bats an eyelid too.

For some reason, I can't envision Carlos Cuellar being called a dago or Emmanuele Giaccherini being called a wop but call the Irish whatever you like and it will just be excused as banter.

[Stuttgart88]

I do find it especially interesting how you allocate the benefit of the doubt in certain situations.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I do find it especially interesting how you allocate the benefit of the doubt in certain situations.

I didn't say I think it happened. I said I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I don't understand what would motivate someone to post something like that if there wasn't an element of truth in it.

More than one person is bound to have heard it if it did happen. Someone should post something about it on a Cork City forum.