The 2nd place qualifying table

**SUB of the day** · 07/04/2009, 5:07 PM

I can see it now, playing montenegro in the last game at croker with all positions in the group still possible.Jesus we could finish second and late goals in a selection of games across Europe could have us yo yoing between a playoff and elimination.........serious tension ahead, but at least we're in contention and competitive, (no offence Stan).Will the celebration in Bari be eclipsed?....surely croker will give us 1 game to remember?

**geysir** · 07/04/2009, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

its only a realy bad jinx if George Hamilton logs in and posts saying that 2nd place is looking likely now.

We can never discount the unexpected.
Proof tonight that the jinx of George is not confined to Ireland, no sooner had he claimed a MU victory than Porto get their second.

**Fizzer** · 08/04/2009, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Morbo

Crap system very unfair on whatever 2nd placed team doesn't make it, why can't they just have 1 of the 2nd placed teams play an Asian team.

Totally crap system, can see the fingernails getting chewed off in the last game against montenegro.

couldn't they just have put the three 2nd place teams with the lowest points into a round robin, each team to play each other once, top two go through. Might have been a fairer way to do it. I suppose it would be a playoff to get to another payoff so maybe not ideal.

**lionelhutz** · 08/04/2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Wasn't it 280/1 or something like that?

Anyway this thread is a jinx, it's tempting 3rd place in a big way.

Or its tempting 1st...

**RogerMilla** · 08/04/2009, 1:01 PM

it really is going to be a rollercoaster this one , best we can hope for is going into the last game needing a win to cement not being the last placed 2nd team

**zenokelly** · 08/04/2009, 1:15 PM

A positive is that we'll know what we need in the final 2 games because Group 9 (Scotland's group) finishes in September.

**Kingdom** · 08/04/2009, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by zenokelly

A positive is that we'll know what we need in the final 2 games because Group 9 (Scotland's group) finishes in September.

Really really good point. I still see Norway coming second in that group, which would be better again.

I agree with the earlier poster that Croker owes us a magic night and lets hope its either against the Italians or those pesky Montenegrins.

This campaign has been one game at a time, each game more important than the last.

**lionelhutz** · 08/04/2009, 3:19 PM

I think this thread is redundant. We'll win our last four games and finish top of the group. So why worry about the 2nd places....

**Fizzer** · 10/04/2009, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

I think this thread is redundant. We'll win our last four games and finish top of the group. So why worry about the 2nd places....

Really hope you're right

**cartman** · 14/04/2009, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

I think this thread is redundant. We'll win our last four games and finish top of the group. So why worry about the 2nd places....

ridiculous comment in fairness - it will take a huge amount of luck {maybe all professional italian players to retire} for ireland to finish 1st..

so, in this case, its vital that ireland know where they stand when they are trying to secure a play-off place with a couple of games to go..

i think we should all get real about their situation..

**frog-gufc** · 14/04/2009, 11:16 AM

i think its disgraceful that one 2nd place team wont even make the playoffs, the 4th place concacaf team plays the 5th place south amercian team for a spot in the world cup, surely the type of team to finish 4th in the concacaf shouldnt be awarded a playoff ahead of one of the europeans who play against a higher standard of teams

**Bungle** · 14/04/2009, 1:50 PM

To be honest, if we take 7 points from the final 4 games we should be okay. Alot of other teams have been dropping points and teams like Croatia and Bosnia have tough games ahead. I personally think that the team with the lowest points total will be the Scottish group.

**jbyrne** · 14/04/2009, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by frog-gufc

i think its disgraceful that one 2nd place team wont even make the playoffs, the 4th place concacaf team plays the 5th place south amercian team for a spot in the world cup, surely the type of team to finish 4th in the concacaf shouldnt be awarded a playoff ahead of one of the europeans who play against a higher standard of teams

didnt realise that. despite the fact that european teams dominate the last 16 of the wc regularly our representation seems to get smaller and smaller all the time

**frog-gufc** · 14/04/2009, 5:18 PM

i had thought scotlands group was exempt from it beacause they only have 5 teams in the group

**sullanefc** · 14/04/2009, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by frog-gufc

i had thought scotlands group was exempt from it beacause they only have 5 teams in the group

No, its just that points against 6th place teams don't count in the 2nd place table. Thats why it is better for us if montenegro finish bottom instead of Georgia because we dropped points against montenegro and have maximum against Georgia.

**Predator** · 16/04/2009, 3:11 PM

I hate this whole thing where people simply accept that 2nd place is the only real possibility. Ireland can finish top, we should always be aiming for top place regardless and we should always play to win. As fans, we need to get behind the team and instil a stronger belief in them! Although, in the scenario that we do have to play in the play-offs, has anyone considered the possibility that we might get the North?

**paul_oshea** · 16/04/2009, 4:14 PM

the north have played 2 more games and they have had their wins from their home games bar san marino(granted they were unlucky in slovenia and slovakia), i doubt they were get many more points than what they have now, when they go back on the road. I would be extremely surprised if we met them.

**irishultra** · 16/04/2009, 5:29 PM

ye the norths position is fairly misleading. although the czechs had all those retirements there last week ujfalujsi(spelling?), fenin, baros, even janklusovski thinking about retirning, so it gives them a chance, they'd still be a far better team than the north without these players so i cant see them getting anything in prague.

the way i see it in order to finish second it will be impossible to end up as the second placed team with the lowest points. the bulgaria away game is huge, really we should be trying to get 3 points now.

**geysir** · 16/04/2009, 11:02 PM

Thats a good thought IU, to do what we have to do, to finish second, means a good overall 2nd place points level.
The way the North's group opponents are self destructing, they could do a Foinavon yet.

No chance for us to meet a low ranked 2nd placed team either in an official or unofficial seeded play off draw

**Gather round** · 17/04/2009, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by frog-gufc

i think its disgraceful that one 2nd place team wont even make the playoffs, the 4th place concacaf team plays the 5th place south amercian team for a spot in the world cup, surely the type of team to finish 4th in the concacaf shouldnt be awarded a playoff ahead of one of the europeans who play against a higher standard of teams

On the other hand, the 18th best team in Europe can't really complain about missing out on the finals. They wouldn't be in the European finals either (at least not until the crazy expansion to 24 teams, if it ever happens).

Originally Posted by Predator

I hate this whole thing where people simply accept that 2nd place is the only real possibility. Ireland can finish top, we should always be aiming for top place regardless and we should always play to win. As fans, we need to get behind the team and instil a stronger belief in them!

Agree some of the comments above are slightly pessimistic. You've had a good first half of the tournament overall, drawn away in Italy, effectively eliminated the three bottom teams. You are capable on evidence so far of winning in Bulgaria, and if you avoid defeat there I think you'll make second at least.

Although, in the scenario that we do have to play in the play-offs, has anyone considered the possibility that we might get the North?

Well, it's a big 'if', as is well known we don't travel too well

Assuming both make the play-offs, and an open draw, 6-1 chance of any team drawing a specific other. But then there's the possibility of the draw being seeded (whether openly or not) as Geysir and others mentioned in a previous thread.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

the north have played 2 more games and they have had their wins from their home games bar san marino(granted they were unlucky in slovenia and slovakia), i doubt they were get many more points than what they have now, when they go back on the road. I would be extremely surprised if we met them

A fair summary, although personally I thought we were too negative in the Slovakia and Slovenia away games. Here's the table with San Marino excluded:

sk 4-9
si 6-8
ni 5-7
cs 5-5
pl 4-4

All five still in the mix, although clearly Slovakia are now the favorite (they're the only team to win away from home). The runner-up could conceivably make it without winning an away game other than SMR.

Originally Posted by irishultra

ye the norths position is fairly misleading. although the czechs had all those retirements there last week ujfalujsi(spelling?), fenin, baros, even janklusovski thinking about retirning, so it gives them a chance, they'd still be a far better team than the north without these players so i cant see them getting anything in prague

The stripped down table above is clear enough. We're effectively third rather than first, but I think we'll overtake Slovenia. The play-off place depends on which the two big boys, Poland and Czechia get their act together first. If neither do- and even without Boruc's antics, the Polish defence was abysmal in Belfast- we can make second.

If all games bar SMR end as home wins:

sk 8-15
cs 8-11
si 8-11
pl 8-10
ni 8-10

Looks like the runner-up will struggle to progress...

Originally Posted by geysir

Thats a good thought IU, to do what we have to do, to finish second, means a good overall 2nd place points level.
The way the North's group opponents are self destructing, they could do a Foinavon yet

Er...we started the series as the third seeds. Even if you don't equate that to third favorite, it's hardly comparable to a 100-1 shot?