With FAI or LoI to go it alone again?

[Nesta99]

https://x.com/McDonnellDan/status/1780700484489392607

Was gonna throw up a poll but cant see the function(?). So LoI decided to move to be administered by the FAI in some year I cant remember, late 90s early 2000s. Iirc it was felt that the league couldnt progress while running itself due to self interest. The league could also end up bankrupt but under direct admin of the FAI well the league didnt have to be self financing and the FAI would provide some financial security....in theory. At least thats how i remember the basics of it.

Soooo would people prefer going it alone again or continue with participation with the FAI? Circumstances have changed where the league now has arguably more credibility, goodwill, greater potential for real development and change etc. Or should we hedge bets with a new entity running the league with joint responsibility with Abbotstown even if currently that holds the league back, associating with the problem child of Irish sport?

On a completely different issue, that old 'Big Club' can be put to be with Bohs being members of the small club UEC while the rest mix it with the big clubs in the ECA....jesting aside, it is typical of Lambo to just be contrary, be different even if it might make sense. As per the Cork example, its good that clubs can have 'legacy' membership of the ECA if outside a top tier!

[Another Bohemia]

My big thing is that whether with the FAI or as it's own entity clubs should be working together to improve the league get sponsorship for the league, tv deals etc. That should be for both leagues too. Just by excluding the first division clubs I'm immediately suspect of the ECA and any club near the relegation zone should also be wary. If the league goes the way of individual TV deals per club you could very easily see a lot of money put into the "Large" clubs coffers that just doesn't get to non smaller clubs. or you could have a situation with clubs undercutting each other just so they have more games broadcast to get extra exposure but ultimately hurting the total value of the league and growth of other clubs. I think it has to be a centralised deal to ensure that football in the country is sustainable for all clubs and not just the biggest clubs. Ironically in that world Bohs would probably do quite well as while the football side of things isn't 100% at the minute they would be one of the more recognisable names when it comes to LOI clubs and can make the case that the regularly sell out the ground so have a ready made audience waiting to watch.

[Nesta99]

Agree with what you say. But the real world of LoI, and with precedent, is that clubs find it very hard to to act as a collective. In the past every decision was made with self interest behind it rather than the bigger picture and greater good, hence why the FAI took over control as the league administering itself was just easting itself. Have we moved beyond that? Why cant clubs be members of both the ECA and UEC if they fit the profile of both, work on shared inerests when they overlap or are both of these organisations also run by ego. Trade Unions can have rivalry but would negotiate a national pay deal together so its possible to do.

What sort of TV deal could be brokered? The national broadcaster is broke, VM knows there is no competition for rights. Have subscription companies ever had a proposal put to them and what is the product worth. Live games are help build maybe but as daft as it may sound I think we need a gimmicky Drive to Survive type show, grittier than the football equivalents, the league is mad enough for it to be intriguing irrespective of the football....

[Another Bohemia]

Agreed, clubs will try to look after themselves first and I suppose the split in which club union they join shows that there are still going to be differing opinions along the way. I would hope that UEC becomes the preferred option for Irish clubs because it's not solely for teams in the top division of their country but for all clubs. But based on my own experience changing energy and insurance providers if it's too difficult and there's no immediate benefit it will probably stay as is.

Regardless of that I think the clubs of both divisions need to come together and decide on a roadmap for league growth and try to manage this themselves from the bottom up so the FAI, the new league entity whatever it may be has an idea of what is wanted and what is needed from a club perspective.

[EatYerGreens]

The Number 1 priority for club football in Ireland now and for the foreseeable future is stadia development. The majority of clubs in the league either currently have capacity issues, or are likely to have them in the coming years if the league continues to grow (which is very likely, even just due to population growth). So the question for me is not so much which group is best placed to administrate the league, but which is best placed to make the case for significant capital funding to government, councils etc. And despite its very many faults, I suspect the answer to that is the FAI.

The FAI is about to start the search for a new CEO. The reps/cliubs of LOI football should sit down with whoever gets appointed as a priority and push for the FAI to lead on capital funding and other key issues. They should use the idea of breaking away themselves as a threat - i.e. that if the FAI doesn't step up and do its job to support Irish club football properly, then they'll have to do it themselves. When the FAI took over the league X years ago, its was largely a welcome move. And it was as much about the FAI doing the league a favour. But circumstances have changed, and I believe will continue to do so. Our league is a much stronger and better product, whilst the FAI's star has fallen significanntly at the same time. The balance of power and influence has shifted. I think it would further diminish the FAI if they were stripped of responsibility for running senior club football in Ireland.

In summary, I'm not in favour of the league trying to run itself again. But I am in favour of the threat of that being used to force the new leadership of the FAI to step up and do their job properly. So I hope the clubs will continue talking about breaking away - particularly around the time a new CEO gets appointed.

[EalingGreen]

"The ECA team are also due to meet with Northern Irish league representatives during their visit."

Contrary to the experience of the LOI, the IL actually went in the opposite direction a few years back, i.e. becoming self-governing/autonomous from the IFA. On the whole they seem to be reasonably happy with this, with no talk of returning to the IFA fold that I can see and tbf, the IFA don't appear too bothered either, at least on the surface.

Overall, the IL has been doing quite well in recent years, though how much of that is down to this development I couldn't say. As regards this business of LOI clubs following their own agenda at the expense of unity etc, I suspect that the IL (or Northern Ireland Football League to be precise) has benefited from having a strong CEO in Gerard Lawlor (ex-Cliftonville).

Lawlor is very much a "marmite" character, who always talks big, often without having the wherewithal to back it up. But I suppose he is quite good at generating publicity, interest and headlines for the NIFL and one way or another, the clubs do seem to co-operate, even despite their having very different agendas (f-t vs p-t, European revenues, summer/winter season, all-Ireland ambitions, Belfast vs the rest etc)

[sbgawa]

The Number 1 priority for club football in Ireland now and for the foreseeable future is stadia development. The majority of clubs in the league either currently have capacity issues, or are likely to have them in the coming years if the league continues to grow (which is very likely, even just due to population growth). So the question for me is not so much which group is best placed to administrate the league, but which is best placed to make the case for significant capital funding to government, councils etc. And despite its very many faults, I suspect the answer to that is the FAI.

The FAI is about to start the search for a new CEO. The reps/cliubs of LOI football should sit down with whoever gets appointed as a priority and push for the FAI to lead on capital funding and other key issues. They should use the idea of breaking away themselves as a threat - i.e. that if the FAI doesn't step up and do its job to support Irish club football properly, then they'll have to do it themselves. When the FAI took over the league X years ago, its was largely a welcome move. And it was as much about the FAI doing the league a favour. But circumstances have changed, and I believe will continue to do so. Our league is a much stronger and better product, whilst the FAI's star has fallen significanntly at the same time. The balance of power and influence has shifted. I think it would further diminish the FAI if they were stripped of responsibility for running senior club football in Ireland.

In summary, I'm not in favour of the league trying to run itself again. But I am in favour of the threat of that being used to force the new leadership of the FAI to step up and do their job properly. So I hope the clubs will continue talking about breaking away - particularly around the time a new CEO gets appointed.

Fundementally this is my view, Governments like dealing with semi-state companies or Associations like the FAI, IRFU. GAA etc. Dealing with or more importantly doling out Public money to a new organisation will be more difficult for them.
There is a small bit of momentumn behind the calls for proper funding for Academies and improved facilities and i would be loath to change now for fear of stalling.
A Club official at Rovers made me burst out laughing one time when i asked him about clubs co operating on big issues "FFS we are in a league where the teams are still robbing each others balls". to be fair it was a few years ago but i dont think it has changed much

[EalingGreen]

A Club official at Rovers made me burst out laughing one time when i asked him about clubs co operating on big issues "FFS we are in a league where the teams are still robbing each others balls".

Are you sure he didn't say "rubbing"?

OK, maybe not.

[nigel-harps1954]

I have zero faith in the clubs running the league and much less in an organisation that excludes the majority of clubs in the league.

[sbgawa]

I have zero faith in the clubs running the league and much less in an organisation that excludes the majority of clubs in the league.

To be fair Nigel the ECA limiting it to Premier division clubs is reasonable otherwise where do they stop ? League 2 in England , NAtional League south, there would be thousends of clubs accross Europe
I think the ECA have been relativly good for the lower leagues , Conference league as well as increased Euro payments against a backround of the bigest clubs wanting to break away and take all the money with them.


Lambo suits the UEC down to the ground it couldnt be more bohs, Sit on the outside shouting about fairness for the common man to the people with the money rather than sit inside and try to make things happen.

[placid casual]

Lambo suits the UEC down to the ground it couldnt be more bohs, Sit on the outside shouting about fairness for the common man to the people with the money rather than sit inside and try to make things happen.

100%.
What culchies refer to as a "hurler on the ditch" I believe.

[Mr A]

The Number 1 priority for club football in Ireland now and for the foreseeable future is stadia development. The majority of clubs in the league either currently have capacity issues, or are likely to have them in the coming years if the league continues to grow (which is very likely, even just due to population growth). So the question for me is not so much which group is best placed to administrate the league, but which is best placed to make the case for significant capital funding to government, councils etc. And despite its very many faults, I suspect the answer to that is the FAI.

The FAI is about to start the search for a new CEO. The reps/cliubs of LOI football should sit down with whoever gets appointed as a priority and push for the FAI to lead on capital funding and other key issues. They should use the idea of breaking away themselves as a threat - i.e. that if the FAI doesn't step up and do its job to support Irish club football properly, then they'll have to do it themselves. When the FAI took over the league X years ago, its was largely a welcome move. And it was as much about the FAI doing the league a favour. But circumstances have changed, and I believe will continue to do so. Our league is a much stronger and better product, whilst the FAI's star has fallen significanntly at the same time. The balance of power and influence has shifted. I think it would further diminish the FAI if they were stripped of responsibility for running senior club football in Ireland.

In summary, I'm not in favour of the league trying to run itself again. But I am in favour of the threat of that being used to force the new leadership of the FAI to step up and do their job properly. So I hope the clubs will continue talking about breaking away - particularly around the time a new CEO gets appointed.

Great post. Hard to see a major TV deal happening when many grounds can't really host broadcasts.

The FAI Infrastructure plan is actually pretty good. That's why I and many others were so angry that the Dail appearances ended up dominated by that nonsense over CEO pay and also emails that were completely redacted etc. Just not good enough.

But put someone better in charge who makes the case and steers clear of daft controversy and there is a very compelling story to tell. And the allocation of all betting tax to horse and dogs is just so obviously ludicrous and wrong. I have been on plenty of club meetings, and I usually enjoy them, but I would not be in a rush to put the clubs back in charge, far from it.

[Knocklyonhoop]

100%.
What culchies refer to as a "hurler on the ditch" I believe.

and also benefit from any deal the ECA look to put in place!

[Another Bohemia]

To be fair Nigel the ECA limiting it to Premier division clubs is reasonable otherwise where do they stop ? League 2 in England , NAtional League south, there would be thousends of clubs accross Europe
I think the ECA have been relativly good for the lower leagues , Conference league as well as increased Euro payments against a backround of the bigest clubs wanting to break away and take all the money with them.


Lambo suits the UEC down to the ground it couldnt be more bohs, Sit on the outside shouting about fairness for the common man to the people with the money rather than sit inside and try to make things happen.

Sure outside of Ireland it may make sense. Specifically England but even then teams when managed correctly can quickly move up the pyramid see Luton previously and what Wrexham are trying to do currently. In England it's fairly straightforward limit it to league clubs and use the divisions that they already have within the ECA to segment it (Ireland are in group 4 I believe). But specifically looking at Ireland we have 20 clubs in 2 divisions. I see no reason all 20 couldn't be included other than the ECA ultimately not caring about anything other than top level football which should be a warning sign to LOI clubs.

[sbgawa]

Sure outside of Ireland it may make sense. Specifically England but even then teams when managed correctly can quickly move up the pyramid see Luton previously and what Wrexham are trying to do currently. In England it's fairly straightforward limit it to league clubs and use the divisions that they already have within the ECA to segment it (Ireland are in group 4 I believe). But specifically looking at Ireland we have 20 clubs in 2 divisions. I see no reason all 20 couldn't be included other than the ECA ultimately not caring about anything other than top level football which should be a warning sign to LOI clubs.

I know you Bohs lads are all about all are created equal and every man deserves an equal voice stuff but in fairness to the ECA if Cobh/Kerry are entitled to a position in the ECA and to pontificate on where European football is headed thats a recipe for an organisation that Crumlin United will want to be on when the 3rd tier starts and one that will be to big to function. I think the interest from the 1st division clubs is shown by to my knowledge they havent even signed up to Lambos People before profit organiastion. MAybe the prolitariat have more sense then you give them credit for

[Another Bohemia]

I know you Bohs lads are all about all are created equal and every man deserves an equal voice stuff but in fairness to the ECA if Cobh/Kerry are entitled to a position in the ECA and to pontificate on where European football is headed thats a recipe for an organisation that Crumlin United will want to be on when the 3rd tier starts and one that will be to big to function. I think the interest from the 1st division clubs is shown by to my knowledge they havent even signed up to Lambos People before profit organiastion. MAybe the prolitariat have more sense then you give them credit for

You realise this meeting was about the future of the League of Ireland, nothing about the future of European football? Why shouldn't Cobh & Kerry be involved in meetings like these? Bohs were invited in spite of not being members of the ECA so why not include other non members? Is it solely down to the fact that they are currently first division clubs? If that's the case the ECA are showing that they don't actually care about football beyond the top level. If that is the case I'd be wary of what their end goal is. If we want to grow professional football in Ireland you need to include clubs like Cobh and Kerry especially if you want to entice clubs to step up from the underage structures and bring senior teams into the league

[SkStu]

This UEC v ECA part of the discussion is all a bit Judean Peoples Front isn’t it?!

[holidaysong]

This UEC v ECA part of the discussion is all a bit Judean Peoples Front isn’t it?!

Splitters!

[Nesta99]

Sounds more like pro wrestling than pro football when put like that.

[EalingGreen]

On a completely different issue, that old 'Big Club' can be put to be with Bohs being members of the small club UEC while the rest mix it with the big clubs in the ECA....jesting aside, it is typical of Lambo to just be contrary, be different even if it might make sense. As per the Cork example, its good that clubs can have 'legacy' membership of the ECA if outside a top tier!

In his weekly newsletter for the (UK) Independent, Miguel Delaney noted the following earlier today:

"Amid so much jostling between the big clubs, and three of the usual names preparing for the Champions League semi-final this week, there was one important announcement that went under the radar. The Union of European Clubs celebrated their first general assembly. It didn’t quite have the opulence of the European Club Association’s gatherings, but then the bigger group - chaired by Paris Saint-Germain’s Nasser Al Khelaifi - receive €15m funding from Uefa. That’s sort of the point. This is about representing all the clubs outside the elite, who do not feel they have a voice in the game’s decision-making. As many 18 English clubs were named in their statement: Burnley, Norwich City, AFC Wimbledon, Bristol Rovers, Cambridge United, Accrington Stanley, Doncaster Rovers, Grimsby Town, Leyton Orient, Lincoln City, Shrewsbury Town, Newport County, Swindon Town, Tranmere Rovers, Altrincham, Ebbsfleet United and Gateshead. An illustrative issue is that Uefa aren’t even supposed to engage with the group, due to a memorandum of understanding signed with the ECA. That only shows how important such a lobbying group is."