Italy V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 23rd June 2016 - Euro 2016 Group E

[Stuttgart88]

Time for a new thread.

Random thoughts:

- Italy incentivised to put Sweden out by losing!

- Still not certain a narrow win will see us through, but we'll know by kick-off.

- Walters still touch and go.

- Ireland has never won a competitive match that Shane Long has started (just a statistic)

Team talk? I saw this on Twitter:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/on...f087e895ad2333

Clark, McCarthy, Wes and long out.

Keogh, Quinn, McClean and Murphy in.

Brady to play Hoolahan's role in a 4411, where he looked very comfortable on Saturday.

The article starts by being quite clear that it’ll be 4 changes, then suggests it’s speculation (“up to four changes”, “Keogh or Duffy...”) so pinch of salt required.

Italy to make 9 changes.

[Kingdom]

The problem with start starting the wrong team/formation/tactics is that when it blows up in your face, if you properly fix it, it's tantamount to saying you erred in the first place, whereas if you don't really fix it then what's the point anyway?

I'd start

Westwood,
Christie, Keogh, Duffy, Ward
McGeady, Quinn, Whelan, Brady
Murphy Keane

for no other reason than for the craic of it. Because that seems to be how Martin O'Neill decides things.

[passinginterest]

The42.ie suggesting this slightly mental starting team:
Randolph
Coleman Keogh Duffy Christie
Quinn Hendrick Brady
Hoolahan McGeady
Long

http://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-mu...33538-Jun2016/

I think it's more likely to be:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Duffy Ward
Whelan
Hendrick Quinn
Brady
Long Murphy

[Kingdom]

The42.ie suggesting this slightly mental starting team:
Randolph
Coleman Keogh Duffy Christie
Quinn Hendrick Brady
Hoolahan McGeady
Long

http://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-mu...33538-Jun2016/

I think it's more likely to be:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Duffy Ward
Whelan
Hendrick Quinn
Brady
Long Murphy

I like that 42.ie team! Must look that up; do they say that's what they'd pick, or what they feel will be picked?

[passinginterest]

I like that 42.ie team! Must look that up; do they say that's what they'd pick, or what they feel will be picked?

What they'd pick, I think that midfield would be very light weight going in against a tough Italian side. Apparently the pitch is atrocious in Lille too, I wonder does that help us a bit? Gives justification to playing a direct game anyway.

[tetsujin1979]

Italy have been playing five across the middle so far in the tournament, I'm not sure we want to let them outnumber us in the middle of the park

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34813540.html

Stephen Hunt bullish about Wednesday. Spirit of 2009.

[Morbo]

- Still not certain a narrow win will see us through, but we'll know by kick-off.

We virtually are to be fair, only one of the following needs to happen for a narrow win to be good enough:

England to win
Germany to win
Turkey to win/draw
Hungary to win/draw
Iceland/Austria draw

The odds of none of those happening on a 5 way accumulator should be fairly long.

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks Morbo.

I wouldn't want to be holding out for any of the last 3! Portugal needs to beat Hungary, Czechs need to beat Turkey, and I never like waiting for a draw in any match.

[Morbo]

Yeah I'll start getting nervous if both England and Germany fail to win. Would be incredibly bad luck if we went out on 4 points though.

[paul_oshea]

I hold out no hope for us at all. THe Italians that come in aren't going to be much better.

I honestly believed before the Belgian game we would beat Italy, they are two completely different teams, and Italy would be able contain Belgium no problem, our individual mistakes cost us, I feel sorry for Mon and Keane and the other players, but a few lads just haven't been at the races physically and mentally, and all the hard work has been undone because of this. Belgium have a strong, fast counter attacking team with great individuals and skill, they are full of trickery and also strength up front, however its containable with a very solid defence and midfield. Having 4 of the backline(goalie included) playing continuously together makes this(solid defence) much easier to achieve. I felt we were at 6s and 7s the last day at times. So that was my initial confidence for beating Italy, they could always get a good result against Belgium because their strenght is what negates a team like Belgium. And i felt that although their defence is good we could handle anything they could throw at us(which being honest looking at sweden game) offensively as they are pretty impotent upfront, and dont have the pace to expose us in the same way belgium could.

But now I just feel even if we scored or went ahead, we have a mental fragility that would see us concede again. I put this down to having no real leaders and no real winners, who are used to holding out and having the experience required at that level to compose and control, communicate and order/dictate to those around him.

Keane also made a good point of having players who are playing 2 games a week at a high level htroughout the season in terms of being at a high level, that we aren't there and its showing. I think this is also true.

[Stuttgart88]

I liked Keane's comment about courage to look for the ball and knowing by a player's eyes if he really wants it. We joked about it here years ago, how I'd scream for the ball knowing full well I had deliberately snookered myself so I couldn't possibly receive it!

We don't have people who really want it, not enough anyway. It's a basic part of being a midfielder. I've always admired Gibson's ability to receive and protect the ball. At one point McCarthy's first touch went ten feet into the air on Saturday! Enough McCarthy bashing though. I read on Joe.ie earlier that McCarthy's problem for Ireland is Whelan. Whelan has had a good tournament I think but he and McCarthy crowd each other out. Maybe that's true. Either way we need someone "busy" in the middle. I suspect Quinn and Hendrick will be asked to do that and Brady will be asked to really come of age and lay down a new role for himself in this team, one he'll carry into the WC campaign.

Fresh legs and ideas required. Sometimes when a team is in a rut a manager changes keeper just for the sake of making a change. Did O'Neill do this at Sunderland? Anyway, that'd be a good place to start. I'd be surprised if there aren't 4 changes, 5 even.

[SwanVsDalton]

I liked Keane's comment about courage to look for the ball and knowing by a player's eyes if he really wants it. We joked about it here years ago, how I'd scream for the ball knowing full well I had deliberately snookered myself so I couldn't possibly receive it!

We don't have people who really want it, not enough anyway. It's a basic part of being a midfielder. I've always admired Gibson's ability to receive and protect the ball. At one point McCarthy's first touch went ten feet into the air on Saturday! Enough McCarthy bashing though. I read on Joe.ie earlier that McCarthy's problem for Ireland is Whelan. Whelan has had a good tournament I think but he and McCarthy crowd each other out. Maybe that's true. Either way we need someone "busy" in the middle. I suspect Quinn and Hendrick will be asked to do that and Brady will be asked to really come of age and lay down a new role for himself in this team, one he'll carry into the WC campaign.

Fresh legs and ideas required. Sometimes when a team is in a rut a manager changes keeper just for the sake of making a change. Did O'Neill do this at Sunderland? Anyway, that'd be a good place to start. I'd be surprised if there aren't 4 changes, 5 even.

Sorry, I'm interested in reading this but it did make me laugh - I'm pretty sure someone could construct a visual depiction of how every problem in Irish football can be traced back to Glenn Whelan.

Bring on the changes though. It would be really refreshing to see and Ireland manager say to the surrounding squad: 'You guys are good enough to come in an make an impact. The others blew it, now this is your chance to shine.' Stephen Quinn, Daryl Murphy, Shane Duffy, whoever - they couldn't help but be inspired by that. Again, if Northern Ireland can do it, why can't we? That's why there's a 23-man squad.

[paul_oshea]

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

[SkStu]

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

posts or it didn't happen.

[Stuttgart88]

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

a couple of years ago?

[SwanVsDalton]

Tardelli's had some interesting things to say about our players.

Initially, from the headline (Tardelli questions football intellect of Irish players) I thought he would be teeing off in a fairly nasty, bitter way. But it's actually fairly measured and observational. Some great words for Hendrick, O'Shea and Brady too.

Thought this line was fascinating.

They conceded two of their three goals on counters. It seems like an enormous paradox, but for them it’s normal to play without stopping to think. They have great qualities in terms of character and physical build, a great drive to learn, and not very much attention to tactics. They always want to play, even when they’re training. So we had to invent new ways of getting them to practice tactics even as they played.

Reminds me quite a bit of what was said in the wake of Brian Kerr, that he couldn't get the players to sit still for any length of time to do video analysis and look at tactics.

[Stuttgart88]

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

I've no idea what was said or if people laughed.

For me (and I'd say anyone), Wales were truly reborn under Speed but dipped again after Coleman came in. Nearly 2 years ago they needed 2 late goals to overcome Andorra and then grinded out a couple of good results to "get into" the group. They pressed on well but then tailed off again at the end and their pre-tournaments results (almost always irrelevant) weren't great.

It was thought they were a team of 1 superstar and 10 good pros. Bale's contribution to their goal tally backed this up somewhat, but it was clear to me they had good quality in Ramsey and Allen as well and leaders in players like Williams, Ledley and Hennessy. All in all, a very good set of things to have.

What wasn't clear to me was just how good Joe Allen can be at this level. He was brilliant last night.

For all the talk of us carrying injuries into the tournament, Ledley broke his leg in May FFS.

[Kingdom]

I heard Keane on the OTB repeat this morning. I thought he dealt with the line of questioning re the performance of individuals, of the team, and of the coaching staff quite well deflecting the issue on account of the chronological issue of reviewing/previewing that comes with tournament football.

He was reluctant to name any player that played poorly, or anyone who might come in, but did discuss to a certain level. However there was no analysis at all of the coaching staff and their performance. I feel that he was giving the coaching team a free pass in this situation, removing the pressure., although I am probably somewhat biased given I think they are more culpable than anyone.

Also, there was an interview with Michael O'Neill on how to deal with Germany, and had he sought advice from MrtnON: he had, and was told get as many players behind the ball as possible. Quelle surprise!

[Olé Olé]

I'm struggling to be optimistic after that last performance. I just felt we looked really abject and McCarthy epitomized this through his failure to press the Belgians.

Are people all thinking that we need to pick Murphy to obtain a result by any means possible? Not that there are much other forward options but that didn't work against the Scots last June when Murphy was coming off the back of the best season of his career. The past one was filled with more injuries than goals. However, it is clear that it is MON sees him as an option, having not picked Kevin Doyle.

Very worried about this match as there will be some hungry Italian players entering the side.