QuoteHow ridiculous is it that a team possibly on the cusp of Champions League group stage qualification doesn't have a reserve team.
That's it. The interest isn't there. A small number of LoI clubs are interested in a reserve league. A small number of aspiring clubs were interested in an intermediary league. It seems clear cut that a viable option might be all of those reserve and aspiring clubs in a regionalised intermediary league and allow that level establish itself if possible over 5 to 10 years.Originally Posted by MeathDrog
If the Premier Division had 8 clubs playing over 4 series, I can only imagine negativity about it. Now there are comments about the First Division but as it's a step or two out of the limelight, it's not put under the same scrutiny.
A regionalised tier below the First Division would be another few steps out of the limelight. The defunct A Championship had groups of 8 playing only 14 games. While far from ideal, a league at that level could get by with 2 groups of 6 playing over 4 series. The league would need time to establish itself. If it didn't, not much more can be done.
The underage leagues have set a precedent for running two regional divisions. I would simply suggest a North Division and a South Division. Top team in each being winners of their respective division. Have a play-off between the highest first team from both leagues with the winner taking on the bottom team from the First Division.
For the A Championship, clubs had to pay €5000 a year. Does anyone know if there are much costs for the FAI if they did form and took on the administration of an intermediary tier? People have mentioned grants for having two national divisions. Are similar grants available for another level?
If memory serves me right Limerick, Finn Harps and Shelbourne all participated in the A Championship though they were in the First Division and were not obliged to do so. I've seen comments that Cork City had an application to enter a B team into the Munster league refused. A Dundalk official has said they've lobbied the FAI for a reserve league. As I've said already while not ideal, only a small number of LoI reserve teams and aspiring clubs are needed if the interest is there.
Hmmmm. Someone from an area without a LoI club is more interested than people from LoI areas in change that will afford new clubs a pathway to the LoI.Some Stuttgart person? Well I never!
I think there's a running acceptance that you are the most vocal about league format reform on here over the years. And you definitely went through a pyramid obsession phase.
There's a thread on this forum about barstoolers. Lol supporters are comfortable complaining about barstoolers and their ignorance of the domestic game. LoI supporters have a similar ignorance of areas outside of the LoI structure.
Enjoy watching your local LoI team in action and have a nice evening!
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
How ridiculous is it that a team possibly on the cusp of Champions League group stage qualification doesn't have a reserve team.
How times change. It was a commonplace in the early years of the FAI that League teams had B and even C teams playing in e.g. Leinster Senior League and even Leinster Junior Cup. And when that started fading away, the B Division was invented by the League of Ireland clubs in Leinster, who wanted somewhere for their reserve and fringe players to keep fit.
Last edited by littlebray; 11/08/2016 at 7:58 PM. Reason: clarity
Not that ridiculous. Many/most premiership teams don't have reserve teams anymore as far as I'm aware. It's not the fashionable thing to do anymore, it's a better investment to have strong underage teams, under 21s etc.
I don't think we should be looking to expand a reserves system, it would be far preferable to focus our attentions and resources on the under 19s, 17s and (soon to be) 15s National Leagues.
"If you don't work harder I'll pull you off at halftime,"
“Crikey, at Manchester City all we get is an orange and a cup of tea,"
There definitely needs to be something between 19s and senior football or even just change back to 21s the jump from 19s straight to senior is too big and players are being lost because of it.
It's obvious that the bigger clubs want B teams. It shouldn't be mandatory coz I'm sure some of the smaller clubs wouldn't bother with it but ideally the bigger clubs should have reserve teams. Maybe if the regionalised 1st division happens as proposed by the PCA we could have B teams in that
I doubt the First Division will be regionalised. Does it affects grants for the league or something like that? I thought registration fees for a B team in the LoI are high? Shamrock Rovers B didn't last so long. As previously mentioned, an added tier below the First Division might be the best option without being mandatory and a low fee. Possibly when the underage structures are complete clubs might be in a better position to make a decision on resources for something between 19s and senior.
Maybe best linking the report in here from the Gabay brand thread
John Caulfield making similar suggestions in the Examiner - 16-team Premier and regionalised first divisions to try grow the league.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Can never understand why people suggest a 16 team PD. Tell me, what do we do with the 4 clubs left outside of that? Just say ah thanks for playing lads but ye aren't invited? Two divisions are needed to keep things exciting.
Did you read the report where it says what would happen to the other four clubs?
How will a regionalised first div work? What if a team from Dublin cork, limerick, galway etc geys promoted? Will they be told sorry you are not going up as there is already a team from your local area in the league?
There was limited intrest when we had A championship so why would there be a greater interest in this new first divisions.
Also in a 16 team premier will leave to many teams with little or nothing to play for & make it hard for these clubs to attract good attendances. Look at the fall in galway utd attendances towards and of season as we had nothing to play for. We get large crowds for big games that mean something like over 3,000 at must win finn harps game a few years ago of over 2,500 at playoff final.
I'm not sure if 10 team div is the way to go but I think 16 team league is too big.
Did you read the report to see how a regionalised league could work?
I think the play off for European spot and the regionalised first division things are just as ridiculous as some of the stuff in the Gabay report tbh and yes I have read it.
in the u19s its been regional for years in the 1st division north and south. winners and runners up went to the premier league.
South was Mervue, Salthill, Limerick, Tralee/Kerry league, cork city, Cobh,Waterford, Wexford and two from Dublin. Within three years Mervue, Salthill, Cork,Cobh, Waterford and Wexford were all promoted and no teams from south came down so it became the Limerick and great Dublin south league. Promotions were not geographical and so the southern league emptied. a similar thing happened in the A league with no B teams allowed get promoted only First teams. Hence Mervue and salthill got promoted from A league without actually winning it.
But there already is regional leagues (MSL/LSL/USL). So given that the First Division is a huge problem - clubs are going bust in it with regularity, and nobody wants to join it - why not merge the two?
OK, it wouldn't be easy; it'd take a lot of politicking, seasons would have to change, etc. But it'd allow for a regional second tier (saving current LoI First Division clubs costs) and encourage new clubs to join the league (partly because if things go wrong, it'd be easier to get relegated)
It wouldn't be a panacea, of course (Trainee's points are valid). But what happens if, say, Athlone or Waterford or Shels or Cabinteely pull out of the league? The league needs the smaller teams to survive - it wouldn't be a league without opponents. I think it's the best way of moving the league forward at present.
I don't see how the FAI can justify shuffling deckchairs while clubs are going under and the league is inching ever closer to an uncritical mass of teams (i.e. too few teams to actually be able to run two divisions, which would be a huge problem). The closed two-division format has clearly failed, I think.
I personally do not believe there is more than about 10/12 sustainable clubs in the League of Ireland, at present.
There is far too much hand-to-mouth existence from a lot of clubs,and it needs some hard decisions by those in charge, for the good of the league.
I think a 10 team league is one such hard decision
Shamrock Rovers- Where trophies are won and envy is scarce
It's kind both hilarious and infuriating that the FAI can do something that clubs didn't vote for at all (a 10 team league), yet they dare not upset the applecart in re-organising Irish football into a sane structure.
They managed to wrestle youth football from the child traffickers, so why is sorting out these structures such a no-no?
What really annoys me is when people throw out the same old "x amount of clubs would have nothing to play for", conveniently forgetting that this already happens every year anyway. The bottom half of the First Division have nothing to play for. There's three or four clubs in the Premier Division who play out the final 5 or 6 games of the season with nothing to achieve either most years.
A 16 team Premier Division with regionalised tiers below that is the only way forward for me. There would be a handful of teams playing for places at the end of the season, but for me, it would simply be a much more attractive league all round and a 30 game season would eliminate the need for midweek games and make local derbies a much more attractive game having them only once a year in each ground. It's a win - win in my opinion.
It's not simply a case of attracting new teams to a First Division North/South either. The FAI need to take football by the balls in Ireland from top to bottom. The USL, LSL and MSL are leagues all of their own but they all need to come together with the FAI and look at genuinely becoming a part of an overall league structure. For this to happen though, the LSL needs to take in all of Leinster, Ulster likewise needs to take in Cavan/Monaghan and MSL needs to go beyond Cork. Obviously, this necessitates a CSL actually going ahead.
For all this to happen though, the FAI need to grow a set of balls and enforce it rather than suggest it.
Last edited by nigel-harps1954; 02/01/2017 at 9:14 PM.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
This. Completely agree. Every league in the world has a certain amount of teams playing for nothing in the final few games, its just a given in a league system.
Have to disagree. A big part of the reason the FD is such a graveyard is because there is no consequence for being terrible. The League of Ireland isn't popular enough to support what is a de facto franchise league with no relegation from it. Francise is a dirty word in Euorpe, but that's exactly what he have here.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks