League of Ireland Structure

[galwayhoop]

There isn't enough quality in the league to have 16 competitive teams in a premier division. If an AIL were to happen, a larger premier division would be the way to go IMO, playing teams 3 or 4 times a season is too much.

agree. but....

12 team playing each other 3 times, 33 games would be ideal. could really see the standard lifting from that.

it would allow 2 divisions below, perhaps divided into LoI & IL or, even more exotic, divided geographically.

bottom team relegated automatically from AIL prem division. one into play-off. two winning teams in each lower section play-off against each other with the winner being promoted straight into the top division (as long as licensing in order). the loser of the play-off then plays the second from last team in AIL prem.

easy. it may involve some minor annual alteration of each of the division 1's (east & west / north & south / LoI & IL) to accomodiate the relegated team/s but that wouldn't make a difference to them overall.

perhaps below this each Provence could have a Senior League (USL, MSL, LSL & CSL). the winner of each would play second place in another section*. then it would be an open draw with the winner of the 2 ties progressing to another play-off against the bottom team of one of the Division 1's.

junior football teams are allowed entry into their respective SL by applying for entry to the Provincial FA or perhaps invited after winning local DL or whatever.



The structure would be like below:

.....................AIL Premier......................

.........Div 1a...........................Div 1b......

..CSL...........USL............MSL.............LSL

...................All Junior Divisions................


By doing the above you would create the route of progression from Junior to Intermediate and onto Senior football for each club, a bit like in the GAA afaik. Each level can still retain it's own competitions (FAI Junior & Intermediate Cups and Connacht/Munster/Leinster/Ulster Cup Competitions). From the lowest level it would be possible for a team to reach the absolute pinnacle level in the country through promotions. Surely that possibility should at least be there?? Instead of as it is now where you practically have to cross the species to go from Junior to Senior!!


* the reason first from one section plays second in another would be to allow the so-called stronger Provincial set-ups an increased chance of entry into the Div1. For e.g rightly or wrongly the leinster section would believe itself to be stronger than connacht.

[Schumi]

I can see the logic in a 12 team AIL Premier Division but I think playing everyone three times is a flawed system with the different numbers of home and away games. I don't think there's that big a gap in quality between the bottom 5 or 6 teams in the EL premier that dropping the bottom 3 or so would make a big difference to the overall quality, especially when you look at how often the teams in that part of the table change.

The overall pyramid idea is ideal but judging by the low level of response to the A League (and to division 1 membership in the past), there aren't a lot of clubs interested in moving up to national, senior football. Hopefully that will change in the future but I can see resistance from junior/intermediate clubs who are happy with where they are now.

[pete]

It is fairly clear the FAI League is trying to maintain a reliable league structure with no clubs withdrawing in the middle of the league. If nothing else they have succeeded in this as previously Kilkenny might have folded mid season & caused chaos like Dublin City.

The A Championship clearly provides teams with an opportunity for non-league clubs to prove they can provide the admin & coaching structures required for the eL without added financial pressure of professional football.

It is easy to criticise but seems good move so far.

[galwayhoop]

I can see the logic in a 12 team AIL Premier Division but I think playing everyone three times is a flawed system with the different numbers of home and away games.

assuming that the league season should be somewhere between 33 and 39 games the only options are:
i. 18 team top division - not enough quality for this
ii. 12 team - play 3 times, alternating 2 home games at home every second season.
iii. 12 team - play 3 times with top 6 split (like SPL). this means that you play your closest challengers the same number of times each.

options ii. and iii. are runners imo. fair enough it is not ideal playing one team twice away but it is the best solution available. playing anyone more than 3 times is a joke and we haven't got the quality to make a larger league. the play 3 times works in other countries so i'm not too adverse to it. the fact is i would rather have a league that was competitive and having less teams in the top division should achieve this albeit they have to play each other more.

The overall pyramid idea is ideal but judging by the low level of response to the A League (and to division 1 membership in the past), there aren't a lot of clubs interested in moving up to national, senior football. Hopefully that will change in the future but I can see resistance from junior/intermediate clubs who are happy with where they are now.

with the pyramid above the premier division and first divisions (a&b) would be populated by the teams currently in the eL (prem and first div and maybe the 3 new A- Leaguers) & IL (prem and first). the next level down is the provential senior leagues (teams could refuse promotion from this if they wanted) below this is the local district leagues (again clubs could refuse promotion from this if they choose).

[Schumi]

I'm don't know that 30 games a season (in a 16 team league) is that big a problem. Compared to the current set-up, you're only losing the couple of midweek games which usually have smaller crowds anyway, playing everyone 4 times is too much I agree (roll on 10 team premier next year ). The quality certainly isn't there for a larger league now but I'd hope that adding 4 teams from the North would give a 16 team AIL division with enough quality.

[garyderry]

I'm don't know that 30 games a season (in a 16 team league) is that big a problem. Compared to the current set-up, you're only losing the couple of midweek games which usually have smaller crowds anyway, playing everyone 4 times is too much I agree (roll on 10 team premier next year ). The quality certainly isn't there for a larger league now but I'd hope that adding 4 teams from the North would give a 16 team AIL division with enough quality.

If it was to be a 16 team AIL, i would have thought at least 6 would have to come from the north.

And only a club like UCD would say it would be no odds dropping to 30 games a season, not every club has an empty ground for midweek games

[galwayhoop]

If it was to be a 16 team AIL, i would have thought at least 6 would have to come from the north.

And only a club like UCD would say it would be no odds dropping to 30 games a season, not every club has an empty ground for midweek games

i would have thought that around a spread of 60/40 would be needed to encourage clubs in the IL to join up - and that 40% would not include Derry.

and on the midweek games, i think our game v Cork City, which was played on a Tuesday night, was among (if not hands down) our biggest league crowd of the season!!

[gufcfan]

there aren't a lot of clubs interested in moving up to national, senior football. Hopefully that will change in the future but I can see resistance from junior/intermediate clubs who are happy with where they are now.

I'd agree with that. If I were on the commitee of a club offered a place in the A league, no matter how successful the club is in its own district or provincial league, you would have to look at the likes of Kilkenny going out of business in the league, teams sort of "established" in the league. I'm not sure I would want to risk putting my junior club through that. But perhaps if we can stop this sort of nonsense, i.e. Kilkenny going bust, Athlone being in serious debt... that sort of thing, then junior clubs might have more confidence to make the step up?

[pineapple stu]

The structure would be like below:

.....................AIL Premier......................

.........Div 1a...........................Div 1b......

..CSL...........USL............MSL.............LSL

...................All Junior Divisions................


By doing the above you would create the route of progression from Junior to Intermediate and onto Senior football for each club.

I think that's exactly the way it should be. You need to allow clubs to progress into the league and give the clubs bottom of the First Division something to keep them on their toes, without resorting to the tried, and largely failed, procedure of making up clubs to enter the league.

Course, the problem with the above is that clubs don't want to enter the First Division at the moment, which isn't going to change anytime soon seeing as the bottom half of the league doesn't even get any prize money. The A league doesn't really change much in that regard either, cos it's still a closed league.

Obviously, the fact that senior football is running on an entirely different time frame to junior and intermediate football only further helps to alienate them.

[redron]

IMO, the 'playing each team 3 times' setup is a joke! You might get sick of seeing the same teams and travelling to the same stadiums, but the '2 home, 2 away' structure is much fairer.
About a bigger Premier Division: would a 30- or 32- game league season be enough to meet entry requirements for whatever European competition places that are at stake? I'm not sure if this comes into it at all, but someone said something to me about this before...

[nigel-harps1954]

To bump an old thread rather than start a new one.

Pundit Arena proposed changes to the structure of the league is a bit of a mental one. Try to wrap your heads around this.

http://www.punditarena.com/irish-foo...mier-division/


They went into a lot of thought on how this would work without thinking about relegation issues, first division structure, and potential dead rubber games.

I had said it elsewhere, so post it here too, the simple thing to do here is to make two 10 team leagues and reinstate the A Championship with reserve and intermediate sides. Two up and two down each year with a further play-off between 7/8 Premier and 3/4 First. Keeps interest there for everyone with top 6 fighting for Europe, bottom 4 fighting against relegation, while in the First the top 6 are all pushing for promotion places realistically leaving only two sides, maybe three, to battle against bottom of the table play-off against top intermediate side in A Championship. Everyone has something to play for right across the league.

[pineapple stu]

I always find it hard to take seriously anyone who refers to themselves as "This writer"

[nigel-harps1954]

I always find it hard to take seriously anyone who refers to themselves as "This writer"

This poster agrees.

[Eminence Grise]

That was convoluted. I see the writer is an insurance graduate - unlike the rest of us, he must be used to reading incomprehensible policies.

Starting the season on St Patrick's day is a great idea. Sure there's only a parade in every town, the drink and a couple of Gah games in Croker to compete with.

[outspoken]

To bump an old thread rather than start a new one.

Pundit Arena proposed changes to the structure of the league is a bit of a mental one. Try to wrap your heads around this.

http://www.punditarena.com/irish-foo...mier-division/


They went into a lot of thought on how this would work without thinking about relegation issues, first division structure, and potential dead rubber games.

I had said it elsewhere, so post it here too, the simple thing to do here is to make two 10 team leagues and reinstate the A Championship with reserve and intermediate sides. Two up and two down each year with a further play-off between 7/8 Premier and 3/4 First. Keeps interest there for everyone with top 6 fighting for Europe, bottom 4 fighting against relegation, while in the First the top 6 are all pushing for promotion places realistically leaving only two sides, maybe three, to battle against bottom of the table play-off against top intermediate side in A Championship. Everyone has something to play for right across the league.

Can't wrap my head around it at all, you're dead right though Nigel the A Championship needs to be brought back and we can start to build from there. The article on PA says a 10 team division is the only way forward that's total crap it was tried before and everyone was sick of looking at each up to 8 times a season

[jinxy lilywhite]

Ha ha ha what a load of ****e.

[Mr A]

Time to give an 11 team league a go.

[peadar1987]

Time to give an 11 team league a go.

Prime numbers are the way forwards. 7 team leagues are awesome.

[Dalymountrower]

That was convoluted. I see the writer is an insurance graduate - unlike the rest of us, he must be used to reading incomprehensible policies.

Starting the season on St Patrick's day is a great idea. Sure there's only a parade in every town, the drink and a couple of Gah games in Croker to compete with.

Bohs v Rovers Leinster cup final 17 March 1991?.Probably 6,000 at it
Winner for Bohs scored by PFenlon.

[ger121]

Good discussion on LOI structures across the board by the guys on the ET Podcast. John Sullivan and Pat Devlin the 2 guests.

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/...=2&i=349135136