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View Poll Results: Do you want Stephen Ireland back in the Ireland fold

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  • Yes

    253 45.92%
  • Yes - After an apology

    151 27.40%
  • No

    147 26.68%
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Thread: Stephen Ireland

  1. #3601
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    Thanks, DI. I knew he'd broached it but couldn't recall to what extent.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

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    I thought he came across better than normal. Was nice to hear him say he would like to get a chance to be involved in the world cup qualifiers. I hope he comes back just like i hope trap starts with a fresh slate for stokes and wilson as well

  3. #3603
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    It's an interesting debate though; what do players actually owe us as supporters? Did his lies breach our support and trust, and did/does he therefore owe us an apology as well? His initial apology seemed directed towards his family and grandmothers primarily, rather than to fans for breaching our trust or whatever. It's difficult to say because I don't think an ordeal as personal as his girlfriend experiencing a miscarriage is any of our business. Besides, if he didn't want to play for Ireland, he was entitled not to. Being disruptive and disrespectful since with regard to the team we support naturally grated with fans, but if he's prepared to put that behind him and give his all for the team, is it a bit much to expect another apology?

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  5. #3604
    First Team Predator's Avatar
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    I'd have him back. The only concern I'd have would be how much, if at all, it would affect the team.
    End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!

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    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    It's difficult to say because I don't think an ordeal as personal as his girlfriend experiencing a miscarriage is any of our business. Besides, if he didn't want to play for Ireland, he was entitled not to. Being disruptive and disrespectful since with regard to the team we support naturally grated with fans, but if he's prepared to put that behind him and give his all for the team, is it a bit much to expect another apology?
    Exactly, its only a game at the end of the day.........

  7. #3606
    Seasoned Pro theworm2345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    It's an interesting debate though; what do players actually owe us as supporters? Did his lies breach our support and trust, and did/does he therefore owe us an apology as well? His initial apology seemed directed towards his family and grandmothers primarily, rather than to fans for breaching our trust or whatever. It's difficult to say because I don't think an ordeal as personal as his girlfriend experiencing a miscarriage is any of our business. Besides, if he didn't want to play for Ireland, he was entitled not to. Being disruptive and disrespectful since with regard to the team we support naturally grated with fans, but if he's prepared to put that behind him and give his all for the team, is it a bit much to expect another apology?
    As I said before, to the fans, no he doesn't. But to all of his teammates, people in the FAI, and the coaches he may as well have ****ed upon following the granny business, yes. You noted his apology but that was only to his grannies and his family. I don't know that he owes any apology for that, but that was not the last incident. Again I don't think he owes anything to the fans but there are others who didn't deserve the treatment they got from him.
    My Guarantee
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  8. #3607
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    Read his lips.
    He is still stuck at the point where he wants to be called first by the FAI, then and only then will he mull over the invitation to return.
    Nothing has changed.
    Not even a 'I will return if called', 'I would consider it an honour if I was called'.

  9. #3608
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    He has to take responsibility, too, for the granny story. Maybe he was emotionally immature at 21, but he had an agent to advise him, and there’s no way that an FAI press officer wouldn’t have advised him to plead personal circumstances – the media here, generally, are sensible enough to know when to leave a story alone if it has little public interest.
    Really?

    starTHURSDAY.jpg

    The media didn't treat Ireland with the basic respect his circumstances deserved. All they cared about was that this player had deserted their precious team - the precious team they would ruthlessly slag off at any opportunity they got - and ask themselves why, oh why, would this spoiled footballer put the privacy of his own family at a moment of untold tragedy when there's something as vital as a football match to be played.

  10. #3609
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    I don't know whether the headline or your posting it to prove a point is more prurient, Charlie! I'm not even sure what it says about you that you have that image at your immediate disposal!

    The media didn't treat SI with respect. Very true. Because he lied to them. Jesus wept, the first thing I teach my PR students (some of who have worked for the FAI) is that if you lie to the journalists (my other students) they will crucify you, and you can't complain because you've brought it on yourself. As for their 'precious team' there's been enough negative stuff written by a host of hacks to hole that argument below the waterline.

    BTW, it wasn't the Star that broke that news story and brought it into the public domain. It was a court case - and a matter of public record - of an incident regarding a couple who, iirc, met online and agreed to some pretty weird stuff. Galtung and Ruge's list of news values make it newsworthy by dint of personfication (relating to specific persons) and negativity. SI's initial story would be newsworthy for its unexpectedness (withdrawal, then the changing story), having an elite person involved, the number of people concerned (fans) and its meaningfulness to them. Had he withdrawn for unspecified personal reasons, and the FAI briefed the media off the record, it would never have blown up because it would have concerned only his and his partner's families. As is right and proper.
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  12. #3610
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    I don't know whether the headline or your posting it to prove a point is more prurient, Charlie! I'm not even sure what it says about you that you have that image at your immediate disposal!
    It's permanently imprinted on my brain

    The media didn't treat SI with respect. Very true. Because he lied to them. Jesus wept, the first thing I teach my PR students (some of who have worked for the FAI) is that if you lie to the journalists (my other students) they will crucify you, and you can't complain because you've brought it on yourself.
    Sorry, this is nonsense. Nobody tells the truth to journalists, especially not footballers, but even so this is a special case. It's not the fact that the miscarriage was made public - it kind of had to be after the granny story was exposed - but the way he's been villified since. Granted, he hasn't helped himself, but the callousness with which people speak out one of the most traumatic events in anybody's life is disgusting. He was obviously an immature boy who felt trapped and didn't know what to do. How people can't see that and give him the tiniest benefit of the doubt depresses me.

    As for their 'precious team' there's been enough negative stuff written by a host of hacks to hole that argument below the waterline.
    I was being facetious. Journalists care about the team only when it suits them.

    BTW, it wasn't the Star that broke that news story and brought it into the public domain. It was a court case - and a matter of public record - of an incident regarding a couple who, iirc, met online and agreed to some pretty weird stuff. Galtung and Ruge's list of news values make it newsworthy by dint of personfication (relating to specific persons) and negativity. SI's initial story would be newsworthy for its unexpectedness (withdrawal, then the changing story), having an elite person involved, the number of people concerned (fans) and its meaningfulness to them. Had he withdrawn for unspecified personal reasons, and the FAI briefed the media off the record, it would never have blown up because it would have concerned only his and his partner's families. As is right and proper.
    It doesn't matter how the story broke, only that the newspaper chose to lead with it as a front page splash - clearly they're not sensible enough to know when to leave a story alone because, at the heart of it, they're all searching for the most sensational story to shift units. I'm not saying Ireland's behaviour didn't attract attention or make the story newsworthy, just that the media acted appallingly in the aftermath.

  13. #3611
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    The media treatment is a non issue at this stage imo. I think you (Charlie) assume too much as to how SI must have felt.
    Media interviews since, indicate that even SI realises that he brought on the ott ridicule by his own actions and has apologised profusely for those actions. I don't get the part where he has been traumatised by the media treatment around those events, indeed he doesn't mention at all being victimised and he has embraced the media since in a way that demonstrates clearly the lack of lingering trauma.
    Those actions, running away from the squad, making up those stories and the media ridicule, are a non-issue now.
    It's his actions towards Trapattoni since, reveal other less desirable characteristic traits. If he didn't want to face up to returning to the squad fair enough, but he engaged in a tissue of lies and innuendo towards Trap and others.
    Even at this stage, he states that he will only consider a return, if asked first.

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  15. #3612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Nobody tells the truth to journalists, especially not footballers,
    Sorry Charlie, I've studied, worked in and taught PR for 16 years and I can't even begin to tell you how wide you are of the mark. You're too polarised in this. Media ethics - like any professional ethics - aren't black or white. I have little time for Ger Colleran, and think he's dragged the Star below what's acceptable many times (remember the Star calling Fingleton and Seanie Fitz 'bas**rds' on its front page a couple of years back? Even if true, was it fit for print?) I don't agree that the media acted appallingly towards SI: they showed a lack of sensitivity, but they pursued a valid news story. They've also given him ample opportunity to explain himself subsequently - which he appears glad to have had opportunities to do. Hardly the actions of a vindictive press corps, or an anguished victim of media intrusion.

    As long as he seeks media interviews, and prolongs whatever issues he has with Trappatoni and the team, he'll remain newsworthy. Taking up what Geysir says, these are the issus that need to be addressed. And to start the ball rolling, he needs to get down off his high horse and make himself available.

    Edit
    I didn't get the facetious tone when you wrote about the 'precious team' - I do now! Cheers!
    Last edited by Eminence Grise; 22/04/2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  16. #3613
    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    I have little time for Ger Colleran, and think he's dragged the Star below what's acceptable many times (remember the Star calling Fingleton and Seanie Fitz 'bas**rds' on its front page a couple of years back? Even if true, was it fit for print?)
    If its what most people are thinking then why not.

  17. #3614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Sorry Charlie, I've studied, worked in and taught PR for 16 years and I can't even begin to tell you how wide you are of the mark. You're too polarised in this. Media ethics - like any professional ethics - aren't black or white. I have little time for Ger Colleran, and think he's dragged the Star below what's acceptable many times (remember the Star calling Fingleton and Seanie Fitz 'bas**rds' on its front page a couple of years back? Even if true, was it fit for print?) I don't agree that the media acted appallingly towards SI: they showed a lack of sensitivity, but they pursued a valid news story. They've also given him ample opportunity to explain himself subsequently - which he appears glad to have had opportunities to do. Hardly the actions of a vindictive press corps, or an anguished victim of media intrusion.

    As long as he seeks media interviews, and prolongs whatever issues he has with Trappatoni and the team, he'll remain newsworthy. Taking up what Geysir says, these are the issus that need to be addressed. And to start the ball rolling, he needs to get down off his high horse and make himself available.

    Edit
    I didn't get the facetious tone when you wrote about the 'precious team' - I do now! Cheers!
    Given your vast experience I'm surprised you think he seeks interviews to be honest.

  18. #3615
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    If its what most people are thinking then why not.
    The bigger problem with this type of banner headline tabloid reporting is when it's not true.

  19. #3616
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    Quote Originally Posted by theworm2345 View Post
    Until then I'd boo every touch he had if I was at a match.
    I'd say there would be plenty booing and it would then fall to him to win them over in time. Then we would see how much he actually wanted to represent Ireland, and how much of this is his career needing the International football stage more than it perhaps did a few years ago, when we actually needed his talents a lot more than we now do. He wasn't bothered then about our country. I am cynical about him, some of his interviews have ranged from unhelpful to disruptive in his absence.

  20. #3617
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manblue View Post
    Given your vast experience I'm surprised you think he seeks interviews to be honest.
    Is someone compelling him to give interviews?

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  22. #3618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manblue View Post
    Given your vast experience I'm surprised you think he seeks interviews to be honest.
    Maybe he just seeks interviews to be dishonest?

    Grammar-based gags aside, I'd never try to second-guess your intentions.
    Last edited by Eminence Grise; 22/04/2012 at 1:58 PM. Reason: Grammarwise, when one finger points foward...
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  24. #3619
    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    The bigger problem with this type of banner headline tabloid reporting is when it's not true.
    But when its true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    But when its true?
    What's truth? if it's 20% accurate? the story headline is not selected for accuracy purposes, it's perspective with a motive to attract readers.
    Damage is done long before the whole story emerges.
    Not unlike Dunphy, whose motive is to be ott censorious, not to be rational.

    With SI, why did he not tell the truth of the matter in the first place? the problem was/is that he felt compelled to lie about the situation.
    Your dog has died, but instead you weave a story that your cat has died.
    Whatever the internal complexes involved with that tendency, the aftermath for years with SI, involves a web of continuing denials and blame. It's no wonder when Trap met him that afterwards he left him well alone, pretty much saying he's immature, complex and fragile. Unfortunately for us from a talent perspective, he's still stuck in weaving some story that he will only 'consider' returning and only after he's been asked.

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