What do you work as?

[Neish]

Work in an office for a company that do interiors for hotels, my main job is purchasing the materials for their work,

[Anto McC]

I'd be pretty sure that was Anto's point, he was looking for examples of people in the more male-dominated jobs rather than the unisex ones that had been cropping up more regularly. I very much doubt he was trying to offend our manliness by questioning why few worked in traditionally male-orientated jobs.

Despite the very poor way i put it across, that was one of my points as well as this one below.

Does that mean we've debunked the popular theory that football is the working mans sport ?

So have we figured out what it is i work at yet?

By the way, would it suprise people if i said i was unemployed?

[strangeirish]

So have we figured out what it is i work at yet?

By the way, would it suprise people if i said i was unemployed?

Whether you are or not, like you said, it's nobody's business. If you are, hopefully you can find a start somewhere soon. Keep the chin up.

[Anto McC]

If you are, hopefully you can find a start somewhere soon. Keep the chin up.

Nah, i'm only messing. I'm unhappily employed.

[Aaron]

Plumber

[strangeirish]

Nah, i'm only messing. I'm unhappily employed.

Good!
Ye ballack, ya!

[Raheny Red]

Yeah it's handy enough. Good laugh too, talking to fellas about sport all day.

The thing is though I don't really like working Saturdays because the pay is fairly crap and I hate working Sundays (double-time) because it means I can't play Junior soccer. And I hate working during the summer because we stay open until 9.30.....!

Yeah I agree with that, I can't play ball either. Thought I'd be grand with playing football with college during the week but I ended up breaking my metatarsal last week in a match for college - crippled Christmas now. In fairness I prefer working late evenings in the summer compared to entering all those poxy Lucky 15s in the morning and lunchtime, and don't get me started on the aul' wans with their twice daily lucky 49s

[passinginterest]

So have we figured out what it is i work at yet?

Teacher, probably temping in a secondary school.

Or carpenter with a side job in ultimate fighting. I'm undecided.

[kingdom hoop]

Not to put too fine a point on it but you are talking out of your hoop

Any number of people pointed out that they work in various aspects of IT, myself included. You should know that IT is absolutely a male dominated area. In fact I can cite any number of examples where there is not a single female working in the IT department, Anto McC did not consider this manly work, hence the argument put forward in your last paragraph is moot.

No, not talking out of my hoop at all! I had no idea IT was male-dominated. Living in my academic bubble robs me of inside knowledge of various industries, but that tends to be offset by reasoned theories that come true in practice.

Had I known IT was male-dominated I could've affirmed my point by explaining that it is a modern-day example of a job males are more suited/attracted to - and thus a modern "manly job". This is probably because, so much more than girls, boys grow up playing with computers, fiddling with bikes/watches, that kind of stuff, thus developing important problem-solving skills and generally having more of an interest in IT.

In other words, Anto was just a little anachronistic in his understanding of what manly jobs are, so we could've simply told him that the world has moved on and that there are now different 'manly' jobs. So if you believe there should be such a saying as a manly job (I've no PC problems with the term of itself, but I think it can breed unwanted stereotypes) you would probably need to re-align your conception for modern relevance. The IT sector seemingly one such example.

But the grander problem really is a stereotyping one in that we tend to expect men to do certain jobs, thus pushing women away from such jobs when they might be aptly suited to the role. You should do what you're best at or most suits the lifestyle you want to lead, not bow to or be unduly pressurised by any mythical notion that some jobs must be performed by one sex or the other. But inevitably (because of often ingrained stereotype pandering, life experiences/interests or maybe physical attributes) men will fall into some jobs while women others.

Unless men and women start leading the exact same lives from childhood this will remain true.

All in all, if I was a repo-man recruiter I'd be hiring more men than women. Not because I'm sexist, but because I understand that men do some jobs better than women.

[Lim till i die]

I'd asked for your opinion - which turned out to be a good one.

Usually is.

Had you just looked at your own viewpoint you might have realised it was an over-simplistic way to characterise what we were talking about,

Was obvious to me what Anto was getting at

and would have saved me spelling out what should be pretty non-contentious.

Er, Yeah, well done you

The point is that obviously the mere fact of having a certain job doesn't inherently make one person more manly than another,

You big up on my point - *big clap*

or allow you to automatically state without knowing the people, 'oh a builder, now he's a proper man compared to a doctor'.

*another big clap*

Rather, I think it should've been obvious to you that certain occupations tend to be male or female dominated.

Er, D'uh

Look at kingdom hoop moving the goalposts - SHOCK!!!

That's hardly sexist, just realistic, because what are traditonally male attributes are simply better suited to some jobs.

Let me help you here.

The bit in bold is sexist

I'd be pretty sure that was Anto's point, he was looking for examples of people in the more male-dominated jobs rather than the unisex ones that had been cropping up more regularly. I very much doubt he was trying to offend our manliness by questioning why few worked in traditionally male-orientated jobs

How nice of you to give Anto a leg up out of his hole.

[Lim till i die]

Thats what i was thinking when i first mentioned it.

You were in your hole.

Couple of thousand people posting on web forum debunk myth of working class football?? Christ on a bike

Despite the very poor way i put it across, that was one of my points as well as this one below.

Fair Enough Anto

Now can you try to put it across a little better in future so we're not all subjected to a couple of kingdom hoops "I'll use 2000 words when 30 words would do posts"

Your actually close with one of those.

Are you a Lingere maker??? You know, like that Sean off Corrie

[KevB76]

That doesn't mean a woman couldn't do the job, just that they generally don't, because men on average would tend to do the job a bit better ........

That right there is the sexist bit
Both my sisters work in traditionally male dominated jobs and thats exactly the sort of ridiculaous ****e they both had thrown at them from various begrudgers when they started out
I shouldn't have to point it out, but here goes : men do not tend to the job a bit better, in the case of both my sisters in their respective jobs, they tend to do the job a bit better than most

[kingdom hoop]

Kev, like LTID, you've missed my point by picking out an isolated comment instead of looking at my general point. (curiously though you won't see me lobbing sarky similies and red-faced men at you)

I clearly said in my most recent post that I saw stereotyping as a major problem in this discussion, as a barrier to letting each individual find their right career path. That I was against the view that men should necessarily do some jobs and women others, but that it just happens that way. Did you not see that? I said in general(there will always be exceptions) women don't do certain jobs, not that they actually can't, shouldn't, or wouldn't be as good at them, just because they are women.

The question is, why, on average, don't they do certain jobs. Yes there is the stereotype factor that I alluded to. But more importantly, it's a cultural thing. At birth we are all the same, boys aren't congenitally more disposed to maths or engineering. Instead, the job you are most suited to will depend on a multitude of factors during one's development. I gave some logical reasons as to why the IT sector is male-dominated in my last post. Have a look, it should help to illustrate my point. And if you apply similar reasoning and investigation you'll come to understand that men aren't at birth going to dominate some jobs, but that through their development, they come to be more suited to, and thus dominate, that sector. Surely I won't have to repeat that??

And can people stop saying my comments are sexist! I was hoping Green Tribe would talk to me on Saturday night.

[Lim till i die]

Kev, like LTID, you've missed my point by picking out an isolated comment instead of looking at my general point. (curiously though you won't see me lobbing sarky similies and red-faced men at you)

Maybe people miss your point because you bombard them with unecessary verbage which quite frankly causes you to trip over yourself at times.

Yes you did discuss this:

said in my most recent post that I saw stereotyping as a major problem in this discussion

But you also said this:

because men on average would tend to do the job a bit better ........

And this:

traditonally male attributes

Two comments which are sexist IMO

Are you arguing with yourself or are you just admitting to being in thrall of said stereotypes???

See sometimes

sarky similies and red-faced men at you

can do the job fine

And can people stop saying my comments are sexist! I was hoping Green Tribe would talk to me on Saturday night

Nobodies going to fall out over stuff said on an internet forum FFS

Tell you what yourself and Anto can buy me two glasses of pink champagne Saturday

[kingdom hoop]

Look at kingdom hoop moving the goalposts - SHOCK!!!

Brilliant stuff. To be honest what I find most shocking is that you are content to wallop shots at some goalposts that are just a figment of your imagination floating aimlessly in the sky with Anto's head in one of the top corners. In other words, a pointless exercise unless you just want to attack someone for the sake of it.

Meanwhile, I'm happily firing pot-shots at my, yes moved, goalposts but that now actually find themselves on a playing field. It's a bit lonely as a shimmy my way around a tricky surface, and there are some hooligans who descend from their clouds to try take my ball away. But I'll continue playing, continue to try find the right approach to the goal. That goal being the answer to why men dominate certain industries and women others. Or is it all down to stereotypes then if you want to reject my development point?

Yes I may be arguing with myself, but only because I find myself on new ground, unsure of my footing. I call arguing with myself making progress, nothing ventured nothing gained. While you on the other hand seem unwilling to recognise my 'breakthrough' on the subject, unfortunately focusing on a comment that, in light of my later comments, would not be construed as a sexist remark.

[Lim till i die]

Yes I may be arguing with myself, but only because I find myself on new ground, unsure of my footing.

Indeed

While you on the other hand seem unwilling to recognise my 'breakthrough' on the subject

I already gave you a round of applause for coming around to agreement with my point

A point you missed and argued with in the first place!!!

So now that we've found that common ground feel free to argue away amongst yourself but may I suggest taking it to PM kingdom hoop(s)

[smellyfeet]

I'm a Butcher, Pudding bender

[Green Tribe]

Kev, like LTID, you've missed my point by picking out an isolated comment instead of looking at my general point. (curiously though you won't see me lobbing sarky similies and red-faced men at you)

I clearly said in my most recent post that I saw stereotyping as a major problem in this discussion, as a barrier to letting each individual find their right career path. That I was against the view that men should necessarily do some jobs and women others, but that it just happens that way. Did you not see that? I said in general(there will always be exceptions) women don't do certain jobs, not that they actually can't, shouldn't, or wouldn't be as good at them, just because they are women.

The question is, why, on average, don't they do certain jobs. Yes there is the stereotype factor that I alluded to. But more importantly, it's a cultural thing. At birth we are all the same, boys aren't congenitally more disposed to maths or engineering. Instead, the job you are most suited to will depend on a multitude of factors during one's development. I gave some logical reasons as to why the IT sector is male-dominated in my last post. Have a look, it should help to illustrate my point. And if you apply similar reasoning and investigation you'll come to understand that men aren't at birth going to dominate some jobs, but that through their development, they come to be more suited to, and thus dominate, that sector. Surely I won't have to repeat that??

And can people stop saying my comments are sexist! I was hoping Green Tribe would talk to me on Saturday night.

heh heh. I just can't wait to hear you and Lim til i die arguing on Saturday

[Magicme]

I think we should keep them at opposite ends of the pub to avoid such confrontation!

[Green Tribe]

I think we should keep them at opposite ends of the pub to avoid such confrontation!

Indeed, I can see a handbags incident between the 2 of them