Kevin Doyle

[wws]

The fact is that when a majority of Irish people slate our own league this is what happens. Was Doyle only worth £70,000 when at Cork? Of course not but English clubs regard the eircom League as part-time non-league football and why should they think any different when more people in Ireland are interested in supporting Man United and Celtic than local football?

Since Doyle has signed there seems to have been a stream of players flowing to the UK, some very average ones are joining and getting straight into SPL teams. SPL clubs have copped on to the fact that there are bargains to be had here so hopefully this can change and the value of Irish players will go up.

pretty much what I've said over 40 illogical postings.

[charliesboots]

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned how Irish schoolboy football is raped by English clubs every year.

93%* of Irish players who sign for English clubs at 16 or 17 don't make the grade and return home. The English clubs just take everybody with an iota of talent because they're scared sh1tless of missing "the next Roy Keane"

It makes me sick that these kids are told that the world is their oyster at 16 by clubs who know that within 3 years 9 out of 10 of them will be on the boat home.

In a huge amount of cases it's the fact that they are away from home that hinders their progress. The two best Irish players of all time, Keane and McGrath, both played Senior football here first, that's no coincidence. Doyle is showing that now.

Tell me any other nationality that this happens to with English clubs. It's disgusting.

*stats are from about 5 years ago when Eoin Hand took up his job in the FAI overlooking Irish players in England and facilitating them when they inevitable return.

[passinginterest]

Much as it'd be nice to see it's hard to see transfer fees of over a million for Eircom League players. Taking into account the fact that many of them are on contracts of only two years and wages are small and always will be small compared to English league. Transfer fees get inflated due to players being on long term, fairly big money contracts. Doyle has just signed a new 4year contract at Reading with a big wage increase, this is what pushes his value from 5million to 8million. The Eircom League dosen't generate the revenue to sustain big wages and contracts. Personally I'd say half a million to 750000 is about the highest fee any Irish team will get for their best players, and money like that would make good economic sense for the league.

[cavan_fan]

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned how Irish schoolboy football is raped by English clubs every year.

93%* of Irish players who sign for English clubs at 16 or 17 don't make the grade and return home. The English clubs just take everybody with an iota of talent because they're scared sh1tless of missing "the next Roy Keane"

Is this not the same for English players at English clubs, I'm not sure Irish schoolboys are much less likely to make it than English schoolboys. Do agree though that we should look to keep these players in the League until 20. This is a slight problem for us but a much bigger one for countries like the Ivory Coast.

[charliesboots]

This is a slight problem for us

No it's not, its one of the principal reasons our league is not developing as it should be.

How can it develop when the vast majority of our best young players are not available to our clubs. By the time they return home at 18/19 most are disillusioned by football and the broken dream it has become due to the lies and false promises made to them by English clubs.

[pete]

It makes me sick that these kids are told that the world is their oyster at 16 by clubs who know that within 3 years 9 out of 10 of them will be on the boat home.

When they come home then at 19 they have poor english education so can't get a decent job. At least if they stayed home they'd have got their Leaving Cert so could go into 3rd level education...

[Irish_Praha]

When they come home then at 19 they have poor english education so can't get a decent job. At least if they stayed home they'd have got their Leaving Cert so could go into 3rd level education...

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[galwayhoop]

the reason players go to UK clubs for low prices is not racism.

the defination of somethings (someones) value is the amount that a willing purchaser is willing to pay to a willing seller.

our league, rightly or wrongly (the latter IMO), is viewed - or at least has been viewed up untill now - as on a par with english league one or below. therefore clubs are only willing to pay fees of about £100k for players. look at the transfer fees that premiership clubs pay to lge1, 2 or conference clubs and it is not a million miles away from what they pay for eL players. i know that there will be some exceptions but most are about the £100k mark.

IMO the standard of the eL is higher than the english lge 1 from a football perspective but we are (unfortunately) on a similar footing when you look at facilities, wages, length of contracts ... etc.

when a player is signed on a weak contract - ie low wages for a relatively short period - it is obviously going to be easier to sign him for a cheaper than market value fee than if he is secured on a longer term high paying contract.

in fact you even see english teams selling their own players for reduced fees when they are in the last year of their contract if they think the player will not re-sign as they risk him going for free later on. most players in the eL are signed on 1-2 year contracts and there is not a strong transfer market between eL clubs so it is unreasonable to expect foreign clubs to pay vastly greater sums than that paid by the eL clubs themselves, from a business perspective why would they - they will obviously think (and rightly so in most cases) that the player would like to come, the club could do with the money and there is no-one bidding a greater sum of money than me.

it is akin to going to an auction for a house and you are the only bidder, the guide price may be €1 million, you have much more than €1 million but you are the only person in the hall apart from the seller and the auctioneer. you happen to know that the seller is not very well off and needs to sell the house so you just bid €100,000 - and you probably get it.

as a patriotic irish man i believe the above is a reasonable arguement and doesn't make me an uncle tom!

[eirebhoy]

I mentioned this in the Byrne thread but if he goes on to score 20 goals next season then EL clubs can demand a lot more for their players. Put it this way, if Leroy Lita is worth £1m after 24 goals in league 1 then an Irish player of a similar age would be worth the same with a similar goalscoring rate. It all depends on Byrne succeeding though. Byrne is almost 29 though so I think €300k would be a fantastic fee for him atm.

[NeilMcD]

I think system that facilitated players staying in Ireland until they were 21 would be great. I think then if they had the talent and foreign clubs were prepared to pay the money they good go and at least they would have a Leaving Cert behind them and experience of playing for successful clubs who are playing in Europe season after seaon. They would also be more mature when they go abroad. I think if a system like this could be developed it woudl be good for all concerned.

[cavan_fan]

I think system that facilitated players staying in Ireland until they were 21 would be great. I think then if they had the talent and foreign clubs were prepared to pay the money they good go and at least they would have a Leaving Cert behind them and experience of playing for successful clubs who are playing in Europe season after seaon. They would also be more mature when they go abroad. I think if a system like this could be developed it woudl be good for all concerned.

One option for this is is for eL clubs to have feeder deals with English/Scottish/Other?? sides. The main reason as stated before that English clubs hoover up young Irish players is that they (like everyone else) have no idea who the succesful 5% will be. If e.g. Tottenham had a deal where for for e.g 250,000 euro a year they had first call on any players from a given club they might be happier to have them stay in Ireland?

[galwayhoop]

I think system that facilitated players staying in Ireland until they were 21 would be great. I think then if they had the talent and foreign clubs were prepared to pay the money they good go and at least they would have a Leaving Cert behind them and experience of playing for successful clubs who are playing in Europe season after seaon. They would also be more mature when they go abroad. I think if a system like this could be developed it woudl be good for all concerned.

spot on here Neil. it would also mean if things didn't work out with the club they go over to then they know they can come back to the eL and carry on. even if they go over at 19/20 it would be ok. at least then the clubs are looking at them on the basis of 'are they going to break into the first team?' as opposed to at 15 when they are amassing scores of lads with the hope of 1 or 2 of them making their first team.

unlike all the young lads who come back at 18/19 and feel that they are failures and opt out of the game altogether these lads would have a grounding in the eL and be able to pick up where they left off.

[tetsujin1979]

One option for this is is for eL clubs to have feeder deals with English/Scottish/Other?? sides.

not an eL club, but Man City had a deal with Cherry Orchard, I don't know if it's still going though
I think Shels had a deal with United a while ago too

[jebus]

Odd that I find the remarks of people claiming that English clubs are racist to Irish clubs to be quite racist themselves

[wws]

Odd that I find the remarks of people claiming that English clubs are racist to Irish clubs to be quite racist themselves

thats racist

[pete]

Any centrally run scheme to keep U21 players in this country should have requirement that they finish their Leaving Cert & continue some form of 3rd level education.

[tricky_colour]

Apparently Arsenal won't take anyone other than a white Anglo-Saxon born within the sound of Bow Bells.

[Irish_Praha]

not an eL club, but Man City had a deal with Cherry Orchard, I don't know if it's still going though
I think Shels had a deal with United a while ago too

Home Farm Everton too.

[pete]

The sooner Reading sell him the better. I'd approve of 5m now instead of waiting for more later on.

[kingdom hoop]

The sooner Reading sell him the better. I'd approve of 5m now instead of waiting for more later on.

The better for doyle or reading? do you think kevin has shown all he can do and that villa would be the next step up the ladder? both managers are excellent harnessers of talent so no complaints either way club wise, but you seem to be suggesting that doyle is having a michael rickettsesque season and should be cashed in on?? a worrying opinion if so