Best Football Book?

[WeAreRovers]

OT, but has there really been serious falling-out over FCUM? I was over for a game a while back, heard stuff, saw anti Glazer stuff and also "anti-splitter" stuff, but thought it was all just talk. Beneath the "splitter ****s" lark is there not still sympathy for FCUM?

Big split, it's pretty rough around Salford these days, lots of rows in pubs etc. Tony O'Neill and the Men in Black lot have taken to attacking Salford Reds who follow FCUM. TBH the split is more between hoolies than anything else. The old school (Salford Reds) against the MIB.

KOH

[stann]

Have to say that Who Stole Our Game? is very poor. Who Stole Our Game (In Dublin)? would be more accurate, but even then it wouldn't accurately reflect the content.
Fans of Bohs, Pat's, and co. should be almost as incensed as those from around the country by it's almost total concentration on Rovers and Drumcondra.

First line in the book, after a sepia-tinted 'those were the days' quote: "It's hard to believe it now, but many of us were brought up on tales like these of the glory days of the League of Ireland. Those days when soccer had a unique hold on the city."
That sets a trend that persists through-out the book.
For example, there is a quote from Peter Thomas about when he realised that attendances were dwindling, but despite being put in as if to suggest it's from the early sixties, it is in fact undated, and is more probably from the early 70s. Certainly down this way the golden age didn't end until then.
Another part has the author examining how the GAA overtook the FAI in terms of attracting crowds, and it's all about Kevin Heffernan's Dubs! Really, really poorly concieved and executed, and a waste of a great idea.
And another thing, it's not Shay Brennan's fault that there have been hardly any LoI players selected for Ireland in the last 40 years!

[OneRedArmy]

it's pretty rough around Salford these days, lots of rows in pubs etc.

was it ever any other way in Salford?

Its so rough they play tiddlyiwinks with manhole covers there....

[Macy]

OT, but has there really been serious falling-out over FCUM? I was over for a game a while back, heard stuff, saw anti Glazer stuff and also "anti-splitter" stuff, but thought it was all just talk. Beneath the "splitter ****s" lark is there not still sympathy for FCUM?

As WAR says, it's mainly between the hoolies. It doesn't exactly suit some to have an upstart club taking away their customers for euro travel, CD's etc. Amongst the general supporters there doesn't seem to be aggro, a lot of people go to both.

Back to the books. Finished My Father and Other Working Class Football Heroes last night. Excellent book and recommend it to anyone. At the moment in my top three, although probably too soon for proper judgement as it knocked me sideways a bit reading about the same cancer my dad died of.

[WeAreRovers]

was it ever any other way in Salford?

Touché.

Stann - Your criticism of Who Stole Our Game because it concentrates on Rovers and Drums is a wee bit much. Without stirring it, Bohs and Pats don't really play a big part in the history of Dublin football. One is essentially a grown-up junior club and the other was quite happily amateur until modern times.

KOH

[Dodge]

Plus the book focuses on the negative.

[wws]

Touché.

Stann - Your criticism of Who Stole Our Game because it concentrates on Rovers and Drums is a wee bit much. Without stirring it, Bohs and Pats don't really play a big part in the history of Dublin football. One is essentially a grown-up junior club and the other was quite happily amateur until modern times.

KOH

utterly incorrect
as proven by the massive impact Pats had on their entry to the top flight

ask any old timer - the crowds pats drew for cup runs for example were remarkable - even for the time - and the club drew on a wide part of the real dublin football community

of course that not even going into some of the great names of 50's football who played for pats in that era

[NY Hoop]

Can't recommed Calcio by John Foot highly enough. Excellent book with quite a big look at the fan culture over there for those of you into that sort of thing.

Steer clear of Agnew. Haven't read it but the fact that he implies in the pictures in the centre that Livorno fans are facist (They look like Roma jerseys to me Paddy) says it all about that tome

In fairness you should read the book first. I read it in Germany last summer and enjoyed the Irishman abroad feel to it. And as the title suggests its not just about calcio.

KOH

[Lim till i die]

In fairness you should read the book first. I read it in Germany last summer and enjoyed the Irishman abroad feel to it. And as the title suggests its not just about calcio.

KOH

Probably was a bit harsh in fairness

But surely you'll admit that's a shocker of an error.

Btw even "Calcio" isn't just about calcio. Such is the nature of the beast that is Italian football that you can't write a football book without delving into society, politics and corruption.

As I'm sure you were already aware

[NY Hoop]

Probably was a bit harsh in fairness

But surely you'll admit that's a shocker of an error.

Btw even "Calcio" isn't just about calcio. Such is the nature of the beast that is Italian football that you can't write a football book without delving into society, politics and corruption.

As I'm sure you were already aware

The beast that is Italy! Fascinating country.

KOH

[Lim till i die]

The beast that is Italy! Fascinating country.

KOH

It's where ultras come from

Agreed though it's one place I have to get to in the next few years, preferably for a couple of games

[Conor H]

Attendances at some of the games over there are less than 5000...that's in Serie A.The league is gone to the wall but a game over there is a must.Tickets are dead handy to by all accounts.

[Lim till i die]

Attendances at some of the games over there are less than 5000...that's in Serie A.The league is gone to the wall but a game over there is a must.Tickets are dead handy to by all accounts.

I'm well aware of that, people are fed up with all the corruption. Also the lack of a travelling Juventus has hit some of the smaller clubs big time.

The league isn't completely gone to the wall though. The Sicilian teams and Fiorentina regularly draw big crowds, Livorno sell out most weeks (granted the ground only fits 12000), Inter are also drawing crowds understandably enough.

Milan and Nazios crowds have also been hit by the points deductions.

Romas crowds have been crap this year aswell.

I think it's a general apathy at the way things have gone in most places

[stann]

Stann - Your criticism of Who Stole Our Game because it concentrates on Rovers and Drums is a wee bit much. Without stirring it, Bohs and Pats don't really play a big part in the history of Dublin football. One is essentially a grown-up junior club and the other was quite happily amateur until modern times.

How is it a wee bit much? The subtitle is the fall and fall of Irish Soccer. Now I'm not getting into a debate about the merits of one Dublin side over another, that's for ye lot.
But, while Rovers deservedly get the most coverage, I can't see how, objectively, you can say that Pat's and Bohs don't merit much of a mention. But that's for the Dub fans on here to thrash out, as I said. My main gripe is with the coverage of teams outside the metropolis.
A quick look at the index shows this in stark relief:
Waterford probably get more page references than any other non-Dublin club (edit: Dundalk the same amount), but look at Cobh, Kilkenny (as EMFA), Monaghan - one reference each, just to say they were elected to the new expanded league in 1985.
Bray get 2 references, one of which was the above.
Athlone get one reference, ditto Sligo.
Longford, and (criminally) Finn Harps are not to be found in the index at all!!!

Irish Soccer my aras.

[cavan_fan]

To revive this am currently reading The Ball is Round: A Global History of Football by David Goldblatt which is an amazing read. Although it sounds impossible it really gives a feel for the devlopment of football around the world.

Seems hard to get hold of but is head and shoulders above other football books I've read.

[Macy]

Read McGrath's book. Decent read, and McGrath is at least honest about some of his antics. Not entirely convinced it's award winning, but well worth a read.

Just finished "The Lost Babes: Manchester United and the Forgotten Victims of Munich" by Jeff Connor. Interesting insight into the lives of the players before and after, but overall let down by the authors reserach. Dismissive of the fans to a certain extent, while letting the Louis and Fartin Martin Edwards way off the hook choosing to concerntrate on the plc, which is obviously a relatively recent development, if certainly not any better. Also has a few basic errors with regard to the fans: he says that the United Calypso is long forgotten when it's been sung as long as I remember, and is still sung by the fans to this day, and that they prefer "Always look out for turks carrying knives" and yet fails to mention the fact that (rightly or wrongly) it was in response to years of "Always look on the runway for ice" by Lids fans. He admits he hasn't gone for decades, and frankly it shows when it comes to the points about supporters attitudes, as he's clearly clueless to the respect that Munich and the players are still held in. Oh, and Chorlton on Medlock was "Little Ireland" not Hulme. Things like this that would be easy to find the right facts always make me cynical about the rest of the research tbh. Overall, probably non United fans would enjoy it more, as they'd enjoy the sly digs rather than get annoyed with them!

[NeilMcD]

How is it a wee bit much? The subtitle is the fall and fall of Irish Soccer. Now I'm not getting into a debate about the merits of one Dublin side over another, that's for ye lot.
But, while Rovers deservedly get the most coverage, I can't see how, objectively, you can say that Pat's and Bohs don't merit much of a mention. But that's for the Dub fans on here to thrash out, as I said. My main gripe is with the coverage of teams outside the metropolis.
A quick look at the index shows this in stark relief:
Waterford probably get more page references than any other non-Dublin club (edit: Dundalk the same amount), but look at Cobh, Kilkenny (as EMFA), Monaghan - one reference each, just to say they were elected to the new expanded league in 1985.
Bray get 2 references, one of which was the above.
Athlone get one reference, ditto Sligo.
Longford, and (criminally) Finn Harps are not to be found in the index at all!!!

Irish Soccer my aras.

I agree I thought the book was good for one reason only in that it was a noble idea but the execution of it as you say is very poor. The conclusions he draws from certain bits of warped logic are bizarre to say the least and I did notice it concentrated on a certain 2 clubs time and time again. I think th chapter on the 60s is strange because talking to my dad he said attendances were very good at Dalymount during the 60s and I think the demise was more in early 70s with the advent of more and more football on the TV from England.

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

I too was disapointed in Who stole our game. Can't remember but I think it takes till you get to p.22 before a team outside Dublin is mentioned. Might be wrong on that one but you get the idea.
It also claims Gah thrived in the surburbs while the soccer crowd watched on which is a bit unfair to all the junioir/senior/intermediate clubs.

The style comes across very much of what it is - a journalist writing a book.
Glad I bought it though (2 copies) if nothing else to support literature on LOI

Finished the book about the Brazil 70 team -tracking them down now for interviews. Can't remember the title was enjoyed it a lot.

[Dodge]

Dragging this up now. Any more recommendations. I read tht NY Cosoms book mentioned. Not great. Good story but poorly written.

Brilliant Orange by david Winner is terrific.

[Woody]

In no particular order

Football factory
Only one red army
Illustrated history of Luton Town FC
Heartfelt (surpricingly good book about a Hibs fan who decides to follow Hearts for a season)
Who stole our game

Tried to read Burns' Hand of god, but gave up half way through.

I hate player biographies because take away the football they're just brain dead morons.