Champions League / Europa League 2017-18

[DeLorean]

Linfield will meet Celtic in the Champions League Qualifying Round if they beat La Fiorita of San Marino! The 1st leg in Belfast, should it come to pass, is scheduled for either the 11th or 12th of July also, just to give it the bit of spice it needs.

Tough one for Dundalk it would appear, although maybe I'm basing that on Rosenborg's pedigree from a couple of decades ago.

First qualifying round draw (27/28 June & 4/5 July)
Víkingur (FRO) v Trepça '89 (KOS)
Hibernians (MLT) v FCI Tallinn (EST)
Alashkert (ARM) v FC Santa Coloma (AND)
The New Saints (WAL) v Europa (GIB)
Linfield (NIR) v La Fiorita (SMR)

Second qualifying round draw (11/12 & 18/29 July)
APOEL (CYP) v Dudelange (LUX)
Žalgiris (LTU) v Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
Qarabağ (AZE) v Samtredia (GEO)
Partizan (SRB) v Budućnost Podgorica (MNE)
Hibernians (MLT)/FCI Tallinn (EST) v Salzburg (AUT)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) v Kukës (ALB)
Astana (KAZ) v Spartaks Jūrmala (LVA)
BATE Borisov (BLR) v Alashkert (ARM)/FC Santa Coloma (AND)
Žilina (SVK) v København (DEN)
Hapoel Beer-Sheva (ISR) v Honvéd (HUN)
Rijeka (CRO) v The New Saints (WAL)/Europa (GIB)
Malmö (SWE) v Vardar (MKD)
Zrinjski (BIH) v Maribor (SVN)
Dundalk (IRL) v Rosenborg (NOR)
FH Hafnarfjördur (ISL) v Víkingur (FRO)/Trepça '89 (KOS)
Linfield (NIR)/La Fiorita (SMR) v Celtic (SCO)
IFK Mariehamn (FIN) v Legia Warszawa (POL)

[DeLorean]

And the Europa League -

First qualifying round draw
Maccabi Tel-Aviv (ISR) v Tirana (ALB)
Kairat Almaty (KAZ) v Atlantas (LTU)
Beitar Jerusalem (ISR) v Vasas (HUN)
Ordabasy (KAZ) v Široki Brijeg (BIH)
Crvena zvezda (SRB) v Floriana (MLT)
Valletta (MLT) v Folgore (SMR)
Ventspils (LVA) v Valur Reykjavík (ISL)
St Johnstone (SCO) v Trakai (LTU)
Odd (NOR) v Ballymena United (NIR)
Shakhtyor Soligorsk (BLR) v Sūduva (LTU)
Mladost Lučani (SRB) v İnter Bakı (AZE)
Chikhura Sachkhere (GEO) v Altach (AUT)
Fola Esch (LUX) v Milsami Orhei (MDA)
Partizani (ALB) v Botev Plovdiv (BUL)
UE Santa Coloma (AND) v Osijek (CRO)
Zaria Balti (MDA) v FK Sarajevo (BIH)
Bala Town (WAL) v Vaduz (LIE)
VPS Vaasa (FIN) v Olimpija Ljubljana (SVN)
Connah's Quay Nomads (WAL) v HJK Helsinki (FIN)
SJK Seinäjoki (FIN) v KR Reykjavík (ISL)
Shirak (ARM) v Gorica (SVN)
Zirä (AZE) v Differdange (LUX)
Vojvodina (SRB) v Ružomberok (SVK)
Slovan Bratislava (SVK) v Pyunik (ARM)
Rabotnicki (MKD) v Tre Penne (SMR)
Rangers (SCO) v Progrès Niederkorn (LUX)
Domžale (SVN) v Flora Tallinn (EST)
Crusaders (NIR) v Liepāja (LVA)
Nõmme Kalju (EST) v B36 Tórshavn (FRO)
Levadia Tallinn (EST) v Cork City (IRL)
Dacia Chisinau (MDA) v Shkëndija (MKD)
Levski Sofia (BUL) v Sutjeska (MNE)
Irtysh Pavlodar (KAZ) v Dunav Ruse (BUL)
Jagiellonia Białystok (POL) v Dinamo Batumi (GEO)
Željezničar (BIH) v Zeta (MNE)
AEK Larnaca (CYP) v Lincoln (GIB)
Midtjylland (DEN) v Derry City (IRL)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR) v NSÍ Runavík (FRO)
Ferencváros (HUN) v Jelgava (LVA)
Lyngby (DEN) v Bangor City (WAL)
Trenčín (SVK) v Torpedo Kutaisi (GEO)
Lech Poznań (POL) v Pelister (MKD)
Mladost Podgorica (MNE) v Gandzasar-Kapan (ARM)
Videoton (HUN) v Balzan (MLT)
AEL Limassol (CYP) v St Joseph's (GIB)
Skënderbeu (ALB) v Sant Julià (AND)
Haugesund (NOR) v Coleraine (NIR)
Stjarnan (ISL) v Shamrock Rovers (IRL)
IFK Norrköping (SWE) v Prishtina (KOS)
AIK (SWE) v KÍ Klaksvík (FRO)

Ties to be played on 29 June and 6 July

[DannyInvincible]

The Linfield-Celtic match at Windsor Park will be played on Friday the 14th of July now (assuming Linfield make it through their opening tie): http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40374278

Celtic's potential Champions League qualifier with Irish Premiership champions Linfield has been pencilled in for Friday 14 July at Windsor Park.

The traditional Tuesday and Wednesday slot used by Uefa will be set aside as the first leg coincides with the 'Twelfth' marches in Northern Ireland.

It's understood the new date has been agreed by the clubs and approved by the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

Emmet Malone feels (rightly, in my view) that Linfield's small-time attitude to the possible tie versus Celtic suggests an underlying indifference to European football that is thankfully no longer the attitude of League of Ireland clubs: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...lubs-1.3126604

The competitive sacrifice most obviously and often made was the surrendering of home advantage in the second leg. It was routinely done on the basis, acknowledged or not, that the tie would essentially be as dead a doornail after the away leg and nobody would show up for the return game. It is not a perfect example but John Caulfield’s determination to resist an attempt by Levadia Tallinn to have the order of their games against Cork City reversed was a reminder this week of how things have changed on that front.

So too was Dundalk’s disappointment at drawing Rosenborg. Stephen Kenny talked in positive terms of the challenge involved, not just for his side but also for the Norwegians, but it was clear that his objective is to progress with just one win in effect guaranteeing a crack at making the group stages of both competitions, at least two more rounds of football and substantially more prize money. So this, ideally, was a round too early to be facing opponents of such quality.

[Linfield's chairman Roy] McGivern, on the other hand, described Linfield getting Celtic as the best outcome imaginable for the Belfast club on Monday: “a terrific draw,” and was actively resisting any suggestion that the order of the games might be reversed; something that would, notionally at least, give his side the competitive edge of playing at home second. It was hard to avoid the conclusion that he was entirely resigned to the Irish League champions losing, though.

Malone also notes how Crusaders went into European ties on at least two occasions within the past few years without their manager due to the fact he was away with his family on a pre-booked summer holiday. Madness.

[DannyInvincible]

How is it that both Red Bull Salzburg and RB Liepzig will be allowed to participate in this season's Champions League? Isn't that a breach of competition rules, seeing as both clubs are owned by the same entity? My understanding of the relevant rule is that Salzburg should be allowed to participate in the Champions League as national champions of Austria, whilst Liepzig should be demoted to the Europa League with Hoffenheim taking their place in the group stage and 1. FC Köln taking Hoffenheim's place in the play-off round.

UEFA, however, appear to be satisfied that the two Red Bull-owned clubs have adequately untangled themselves from one another after making changes over the past few weeks: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a7799726.html

Over the course of this month Leipzig and Salzburg have proven to Uefa that they have untangled themselves from one another. What have been described as “significant and substantial changes” have seen individuals with influence at both clubs step down to focus on one or the other, rather than the two.

The adjudicatory chamber of Uefa’s Club Financial Control Body said that after “several important governance and structural changes” that they now accepted that “no individual or legal entity had anymore a decisive influence” over both clubs. That meant that both teams were now accepted into the next Champions League season.

Won't whoever is making the decisions at the two respective clubs - it sounds like they're separate individuals or sets of individuals now - still be ultimately accountable to the same single legal entity over their heads, Red Bull GmbH? How could Red Bull GmbH not have decisive influence over both clubs still, seeing as it still owns both clubs and the jobs of the two individuals or sets of individuals now making decisions in respect of governance at the two clubs, or, indeed, the jobs of any others employed in the running of the two clubs, are entirely dependant on the company?

[DannyInvincible]

Celtic have declined their ticket allocation for the Linfield game at Windsor Park due to safety concerns for their travelling supporters: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017...eld-encounter/

Following security concerns raised by the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), Celtic has taken part in discussions with Linfield and the PSNI over recent days. While there can be an option to reverse the fixtures if both clubs agree, during discussions Linfield made it clear that they did not wish to reverse the tie and they wanted to play their home leg first.

...

No tickets will be available for Celtic supporters for the match. The safety and security of all Celtic supporters travelling and attending matches is of paramount importance to the club.

[bennocelt]

They still have to beat that team from SM first!

[pineapple stu]

Red Bull are technically Salzburg's sponsors, but Leipzig's owners.

There was some personnel shuffling done in the past couple of weeks to "confirm" this; key Salzburg people stepped aside. But yeah, it sounds like a complete fudge, tbh.

I don't think I necessarily agree with Malone about Linfield btw. I agree that IL clubs have a really bad attitude with regards Europe, and the manager being on holidays for matches is a prime example. What's Europe about, when it comes down to it? Money is one, for sure. But I'd argue the experience is another. You're going to get knocked out by someone, and I'd rather get knocked out by Celtic than Malmö, for example - and Linfield will get knocked out by Malmö.

Yes, a small club's best chance of reaching the EL group stages is from the CL qualifiers (like Dundalk and Rovers did). Yes, Linfield should arguably have been happier with FH, a chance of a win (an outside one of course) and two more ties. But I don't see there's too much harm in getting excited by a match against Celtic. I wouldn't trade our win against Dudelange and subsequent trip to Bratislava for a match against West Ham instead, but it still would have been great to have been drawn against West Ham.

And obviously agree they have to beat La Fiorita first.

[DannyInvincible]

Red Bull are technically Salzburg's sponsors, but Leipzig's owners.

There was some personnel shuffling done in the past couple of weeks to "confirm" this; key Salzburg people stepped aside. But yeah, it sounds like a complete fudge, tbh.

That's interesting about the supposed sponsor/owner distinction. Do you know if there's any material online that confirms and clarifies the nature of these respective and supposedly-differing legal relationships?

In the Red Bull Salzburg website's history section, it states "Red Bull GmbH took over the club" in 2005: http://www.redbullsalzburg.at/en/fc-...b-history.html

Is it the case that Red Bull GmbH are no longer technically or legally the club's owners in light of the changes made over the past few weeks and are now merely sponsors of the club or are the company claiming they were never actually owners of the club in the first place? Wouldn't the fact the club was completely re-branded, in tune with Red Bull's corporate branding, or the fact they then initially claimed on their website that the club was founded in 2005 (the year of the take-over) and reportedly declared "this is a new club with no history" (although the Austrian football association intervened and instructed them to remove the website claim in relation to the year of founding) suggest that there was a take-over by Red Bull GmbH rather than a mere change in sponsorship at the club? If Red Bull GmbH didn't take over the club at the time, who did? And if Red Bull GmbH are claiming that they have merely been sponsors all along, why the need for structural, governance and personnel changes at the club within the past few weeks in order to "satisfy" UEFA? Not all stacks up.

Wikipedia states the following on what is described as a take-over:

The Red Bull company purchased the club on 6 April 2005 and rebranded it. After the takeover, Red Bull changed the club's name, management and staff, declaring "this is a new club with no history".

I know it's Wikipedia and it'd be unwise to put one hundred per cent faith in what it says, particularly as that passage isn't referenced, as far as I can see, but it's the only potentially insightful source I can really find to shed light on the matter at the minute.

So, as I've been getting at, if Red Bull GmbH don't own Red Bull Salzburg, who does supposedly own the club?

[pineapple stu]

Just going on what the BBC are reporting -

Following a restructuring [Red Bull] no longer has a controlling stake and merely sponsors the club [Salzburg]

I have no idea on the minutiae of the arrangements. But it would appear they aren't claiming they've been sponsors "all along"; they're claiming they've recently made the required adjustments to become sponsors now, and thereby satisfy licencing requirements.

[DannyInvincible]

I see. It would be very interesting to know who the legal owner of the club is now then and what their relationship, if any, is to Red Bull GmbH.

[Charlie Darwin]

Red Bull are technically Salzburg's sponsors, but Leipzig's owners.

Might be wrong here, but thought it was the other way around. Red Bull outright bought Salzburg, even if they might have changed the ownership structure in recent years. They couldn't explicitly own Leipzig, so they set up an ownership structure with RB board members at the helm that basically circumvented direct ownership (they started a few leagues down so didn't need to abide by the 50+1 rule until they entered the top two divisions).

[pineapple stu]

They still have to beat that team from SM first!

Prescient words!

They've taken until the 89th minute to break them down at home. Away leg yet to come.

[bennocelt]

Prescient words!

They've taken until the 89th minute to break them down at home. Away leg yet to come.

According to uefa live updates, they had a very good chance to score as well. They might push them again in the 2nd leg

[BonnieShels]

It would be gas if they managed to shank this tie after all the planning for the Celtic game.

[pineapple stu]

A similar start to last season's thread - Andrei Arshavin amongst the goals today. He has two for Kairat Almaty, who are 6-0 up at home to Atlantas of Lithuania with 5 minutes to go

[pineapple stu]

I also posted that Benayoun had scored at the start of last year's thread. And he's scored again tonight as well

[pineapple stu]

Kosovan side Prishtina 5-0 down in Sweden before half time...

[pineapple stu]

Tre Penne, the only San Marino side to ever win a game in Europe, concede an 89th minute own goal to go 1-0 down at home to Rabotnicki of Macedonia. Agonising!

[DeLorean]

Tre Penne, the only San Marino side to ever win a game in Europe, concede an 89th minute own goal to go 1-0 down at home to Rabotnicki of Macedonia. Agonising!

Stan finally vindicated as San Marino are indeed proving to be a handful.

[Johnnie C]

Sevco, the gift that just keeps giving!!!
Delighted that their first sojurn in Europe is at an end.