My thoughts on Sunday's disappointing yet predictable result now that the dust has settled......
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To me it looked like the change to 4-4-2 happened towards the end of the first half, rather than when the first sub happened. Mcclean was moved from left side to be up along with Walters, with Brady moving from right to left and Hendrick going right, leaving just Whelan and Arter as a midfield two. I noticed it from around 15minutes before the break I'd say.Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Havin a weekend away is quite frankly,lettin ur team mates down!
Still can't comprehend MON leaving Hendrick where he was being bypassed by the game for the entire first half.
He had a few options but didn't want to use them. He could have moved McClean up front, Hendrick to the right and Brady to the left. I think that would have been better and wouldn't have required any substitutions.
Baffling stuff. It really was. Austria were given far too much respect and we could really pay for that.
I thought McClean and Hendrick essentially just swapped places myself. McClean was then playing far more of a free role than you'd see in a standard 4-4-2? Haven't watched the game back in full mind you, just going by memory and highlights!
That's exactly what he did do.
Was Brady playing left of midfield at some point? I didn't notice that. Nor did I see James come in too far off his wing at any stage. And Hendrick was anonymous so maybe he was out on the right. Have to watch that back.
Watched the match back last night.
Honestly, I still think we were the better side for most of the game. They barely got into our half in the first half. They took one chance.
Brady said they were more composed on the ball. They were at times but it was generally when passing around their back 4. We just couldn't convert our pressing into chances in first half which was frustrating. Wes would've been more constructive in this department of course.
They had more chances at the start of the second half and then the substitutions shifted it back in our favour.
I honestly think people watch the games and repeat what Dunphy and pals say. And Beglin too who I've never really rated as a co-commentator.
Dunphy banging on about Kevin Long being inexperienced. Long had a very solid game. O'Shea is not the answer. Long was a good call and looked more assured than Duffy at times.
Christie did fine too. Not as catastrophic as people making out. Not amazing but not dreadful.
Whelan had an excellent game. Barely put a foot wrong. But Dunphy's narrative feeds into the public narrative. It's getting tiresome. In fact, it got tiresome years ago!
But watch it back. Austria were penned back for most of the game. Duffy hoofed ball at times which wasn't working but I still feel overall we deserved the win.
We created chances in the first half that, if converted, people would've been saying O'Neill got his tactics bang on.
If someone had been on the end of Christie's cross from the right. If Walters had finished that great move that started with him letting the ball run through to the wing. If Long had gotten properly on the end of that corner.
If one of Robbie Brady's 3 or 4 shots hadn't been blocked.
And in second half, if McClean had passed to Arter in yards of space, if McClean had finished instead of lashing the ball wide, if Arter had gotten his shot on target, if one of Murphy or Long's headers hadn't been cleared off the line.
Last edited by Fixer82; 14/06/2017 at 7:55 AM.
I don't understand how you could think we had them penned back in the first half.
We had them penned back as far as the edge of our penalty area!
Last edited by Eminence Grise; 14/06/2017 at 8:49 AM.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
How often did they get near our box in the first half? Twice?
How often did we get near theirs?
Watch it back
I haven't watched it back but I was there. We had a couple of chances but we largely sat off them and allowed them to play around us, regardless of getting near their box a couple of times.
You win again Paul.
I was going to post a few thoughts on the game, but I have to say that Fixer's account above matches my first viewing of the match (on tv). I can remember us pressing them a lot in the first half and having them playing back and forth across their penalty area. Their keeper looked uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Austria did have some possession, but almost always in areas that were not dangerous (just like Bosnia home - the person beside me: "they're dominating us", me: "they're not, look where they're having their possession, in the middle third, they're not hurting us at all"). I really thought we looked better than Austria and looked like we could move up a few gears in the first half, whereas Austria were playing about as well as they could expect.
I can understand not playing Hoolahan from the start, but I wouldn't agree with it. Perhaps there is some injury issue we don't know about. Trust can't be the issue: he played the full 90 mins against Germany at home last time around and wasn't hauled off when we were defending our lead. At least MON eventually brings him on and is generally prepared to mix things up, change our shape, and roll the dice as the game pushes on - all things Trap almost never did. It was almost funny how many attacking players were on the field at the end: we finished with Walters, Murphy, Hoolahan, McClean, McGeady, Hendrick, plus Brady as a left back and two centre halves who went up for set pieces.
I really can't understand how people listen to the RTE panel and take them seriously. There is no choice between Hoolahan and Whelan - they're chalk and cheese, completely different types of player doing completely different jobs. Certain members of the panel seem to think midfielders are midfielders.
I'm really looking forward to watching the match back again after Fixer and p2011's reports. I was stationed in the corner of the lower tier, behind the goals where Walters scored, so I don't think it's the best position for a good overview.
I can agree with some of the comments straight off though, especially about Christie. I didn't think he was that bad at all. Coleman's had plenty of similar type performances for us - disappointing in an attacking sense but doing most of his defensive work reasonably well.
I wouldn't have thought we had penned Austria back for the most of it but would have completely agreed that they didn't look particularly threatening either. The moved the ball around well but never looked like stretching us too much.
It's a point well made about the chances and near chances we created too, I suppose on reflection we were the more threatening overall.
I don't think many posters on here are influenced by the Dunphy narrative though to be fair, but the more casual fan probably is.
I can't speak for the RTÉ panel but I did feel there was a choice to be made between Hoolahan and Whelan in the lead up to the game. Obviously they weren't vying for the same position though. I was thinking he might have went with Arter and Hendrick as the central pair which would have freed up a spot for Hoolahan.
I thought we were brutal in first half. I haven't heard Dunphy. We were better in second half. We could have won 2-0 or lost 2-0. Both teams had chances but over the 90 we were better overall.
O'Neill must take a lot of the blame. All the talk before the game was about positivity. He opted for a conservative midfield and, regardless of who played, the players lacked edge and authority from the start. we responded well, but we usually do.
I seriously do not buy into this Whelan hyperbole. He wasn't crap but he wasn't excellent. He was a 6 out of 10. Hendrick and Arter had shockers but Whelan needs to be moved on. He's actually a bit more positive for Stoke than he is for us.
I play CB or CM on a Sunday. If I was at CB and my central midfield constantly ran away from the ball when defenders had it (watch the tape) or kept passing the ball back to me I'd be asking what exactly do you do for the team? He marks space and makes the odd interception but this no risk ball playing means we resort to hoofing the ball away because the central midfielders don't want to take responsibility. His passing stats will be through the roof but that's because it goes back to Duffy or Randolph.
I think we've beaten Italy, Germany and Austria away without him starting and did not concede so it's not as if we cannot do well without him. I'd give Jeff a run in the side as the 'regista'. Hoolahan in the 10. Long up top and Walters wide right.
The manager deserves criticism for the style of play - it was Trap era caveman stuff and I don't have a pre-agenda. We've played well numerous times under the MO'N regime but the other night was well below bar. PICK the BALL players.
Last edited by shakermaker1982; 14/06/2017 at 4:51 PM.
Whelan started in Vienna but went off early enough. It only reinforces your point though as we improved after that.
But he clogs up space
Ditto
I agree. Pick the ball players. I think nearly all of us wanted Hoolahan to start. Hendrick hasn't done much for us since he scored against Serbia though so he should have been dropped. Or at least be the man taken off when the changes were being rung.
Arter, at least was getting into goal scoring positions. McClean had a glorious chance to play him in in second half but went solo
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