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  1. #301
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    I would bet the ranch it was not.

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    Guardian op ed pulling no punches on Trump's war on drugs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cing-open-arms
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

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  4. #303
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    And Canada doesn't want Stu driving high.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    You're onto something here. I posted on here a couple of weeks ago about my own personal experience via the prism of the drug problem on the streets of America (and might I add, was quickly shot down for it). To me it is all about personal experience and if I can please be allowed to restate my perspective on Donald Trump. I try to use logic in all debates I see before me. And my logic regarding Donald Trump / drugs in America is the following: If I walk out my door I see legions of drug affected young people in my community (they appear to offer little as far as work ethic and responsibility and accountability). And it's just a microcosm of American suburbia, where every community is affected by drugs. It is obvious to me - drugs are the silent killer in this country. You can talk all you want about terrorism (which of course needs talking about) but the ravages of drugs on the people is right there in front of your face every day.

    Now whom among the clatter of politicians who vied for the presidency over an 18 month period, actually took on and addressed the subject of drug abuse. There was only one man and that was Donald Trump. And look where it has led him. It has led him to declare war on the drug gangs of America, to stop illegal immigration which was fueling these gangs, and to address the Mexican government who make between $300 and $400 billion per year on drug trafficking (of course there are the users themselves who are also a big part of the problem). It will also lead Mr Trump to slowly but surely take back the neighborhoods in this country and to bring back a day when kids can go to school without having to worry about being accosted by gang bangers (Chicago under Obama was something to behold). That is just a personal view on how things are improving in America under Donald Trump.
    I can cosign this.

    I can only speak on behalf of what I've seen in Philly and Howard Beach, Queens but the amount of teens and young adults on drugs in America is eye-opening.

    And I'm talking about white suburbanites from "upstanding" families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    It is funny how this thread has come almost full circle and back to the points that I was originally making about the mainstream media shaping our opinion and controlling/defining political and social discourse. If people are interested in becoming as informed as possible on certain issues (e.g. President Trump) one source of news will not provide that to you. Looking at a headline wont do. Thinking that SNL is "funny cos its true" is not an acceptable point of view.

    The only solution I have found is to expose oneself to as many different information outlets (of all persuasions) and try and figure out your own take on the issue. It requires you to learn more about who you are as a person, what values and principles you truly hold near and dear and then determine if you are or are not willing/comfortable to have those adjusted by challenging yourself, your biases and your thinking.

    I think ive been labeled on this site now as a stupid Trump fan who is blindly loyal to a dictator and I think my reputation has taken a hit. That blind loyalty has never been the case. I don't agree with him on every policy item, far from it, although I think if you take a step back and look at what he has accomplished he is doing a fairly good job for someone who is the anti-politician really and I think he has been treated so badly by the major media sources who, quite frankly, I think are scared of him and what he may expose about those who fund and control them.

    My journey from thinking "Sanders is God" to "Hilary for President" to "actually I think Trump should be President" came about as a result of a lot of what I set out above and what I learned along the way. About 16-18 months I was asked if I thought Obama would be looked upon as a good President and I laughed and said "of course, I think he will be seen as one of the best". About 12 months after that question, my opinion had done a full 180. Wikileaks was my biggest moment of realization wrt the political system and the control the players had on the information we consumed and what we were and were not allowed to know and think and talk about.

    These are really the things we should be questioning from a broader perspective as citizens. Things like google providing fact checks on searches, Facebook tagging what it determines to be "fake news". The ability to debate and discuss issues without being shouted down, attacked or labeled has all but disappeared. It is all about control. These are worrying developments for us all. Sure, Trump is a buffoon, is inexperienced and a couple of his policies are certainly sufficiently right-leaning to be questioned and debated - but really, the issues that are most important to me are the ones that I have set out in this post and previously.
    Excellent comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Guardian op ed pulling no punches on Trump's war on drugs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cing-open-arms
    Author of this article in the Guardian is out of his mind or else he walks the streets every day with a blindfold on. Drugs are affecting everyone these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    It's one reading of the opioid crisis in America, mark12355. 29,000 deaths in 2014, 33,000 a year later. But buried within those figures are deaths from addiction to prescription opioids, manfactured by the big pharma chains - Oxycontin, Vicodin, Fentanyl. I've heard no proposals to reduce TV advertising of meds, or reign in the marketing practice of big pharma. It's easy-to-understand jingoism to point the finger at foreigners bringing death and destruction with them across the border, less so when it's national and state-level business interests, employment, tax revenue and so on.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ose-deaths-map and https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/u...-epidemic.html and https://www.drugabuse.gov/about-nida...-drug-abuseare worth reading.
    Foreigners are bringing death and destruction with them across the border. Have you not heard about MS13? But Mr Trump has promised to address big pharma as well. And I take him at his word.

  9. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    Foreigners are bringing death and destruction with them across the border. Have you not heard about MS13? But Mr Trump has promised to address big pharma as well. And I take him at his word.
    I looked up MS13 and you seem to be right. Foreigners are bringing death and destruction with them across the border... into Canada and Mexico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    But Mr Trump has promised to address big pharma as well. And I take him at his word.
    Oh phew! That's alright then. I'll sleep easy tonight.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    Author of this article in the Guardian is out of his mind or else he walks the streets every day with a blindfold on. Drugs are affecting everyone these days.
    Bit of an overstatement there, don't you think? Drugs don't affect me now, haven't affected me in years, and affect very few people I know. That's unless you're stretching the word "affect" to a fairly ridiculous extreme, in my case at least.

    That's not to say drugs are bad, some drugs are, some drugs aren't. But they most certainly don't affect "everyone".

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    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta View Post

    That's not to say drugs are bad, some drugs are, some drugs aren't. But they most certainly don't affect "everyone".
    True, but do they affect all Trump supporters..?
    Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeirish View Post
    True, but do they affect all Trump supporters..?
    I was sure you lot would be needing drugs to help with all the butthurt?

  15. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    I can cosign this.

    I can only speak on behalf of what I've seen in Philly and Howard Beach, Queens but the amount of teens and young adults on drugs in America is eye-opening.

    And I'm talking about white suburbanites from "upstanding" families.
    What's 'on' drugs?

    Is this someone who takes a tab occasionally weekend at a gig or someone who mills through a couple of grams of coke a week. Or some guy who gets paralytic every Friday?

    And what does being a white suburbanites have to do with anything?

    ---

    My experience of drugs in Dublin is counter-intuitive. I grew up in a poor, working [sic]-class suburb of Dublin which was rife with heroin.

    Bar the odd neighbour having an addiction it never actually affected me or was in my life for a second.

    However, going to college and hanging out with my "white suburbanite" friends from apparent "upstanding families", exposed me to them on a more regular basis.

    Would I say there's a drug problem in Dublin? No, because it depends on the drug, your definition of problem and whether it affects you or not.

    ---

    America is not suffering from a drug problem either. It's suffering from a civilized breakdown and drugs, booze and violence are the symptoms of this.

    I was in Amsterdam over this past week, a city widely considered to be more lenient on narcotics than most and possibly the drugs capital of Europe. I would never have considered myself in any danger at any point either.

    The "War on Drugs" has been consistently ridiculed as a war on poor black people in the States. Which it is. America needs a war on something at all times or else it will cease to be America.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

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    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    The war on pharmaceuticals is far more important than the war on street drugs in my opinion. Until we figure out that it makes sense to decriminalize and/or legalise and/or regulate (and tax), recreational and street drugs will be fact of life in every country, not just the States, so you have to just accept that it will always be there until our policymakers start thinking about this in a different way. So I agree with Bonnie to that extent.

    However, I do disagree a little bit in that to just accept that it exists as long as it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that a person, neighbourhood, class, society doesn't have a problem with these drugs. It is a bit selfish. In all my trips to Dublin I have seen working class junkies and upper class cokeheads all too regularly. Wandering about like zombies in town or acting like arseholes in pubs and clubs. Both these examples cause different emotions in me (sympathy v anger to simplify). I class both examples as a problem and I would like to see our leaders do something that acknowledges it and takes a different approach to resolving it. Fighting it doesn't work and causes more misery and crime and violence. The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting different results. That is what this war on drugs is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    What's 'on' drugs?

    Is this someone who takes a tab occasionally weekend at a gig or someone who mills through a couple of grams of coke a week. Or some guy who gets paralytic every Friday?

    And what does being a white suburbanites have to do with anything?

    ---

    My experience of drugs in Dublin is counter-intuitive. I grew up in a poor, working [sic]-class suburb of Dublin which was rife with heroin.

    Bar the odd neighbour having an addiction it never actually affected me or was in my life for a second.

    However, going to college and hanging out with my "white suburbanite" friends from apparent "upstanding families", exposed me to them on a more regular basis.

    Would I say there's a drug problem in Dublin? No, because it depends on the drug, your definition of problem and whether it affects you or not.

    ---

    America is not suffering from a drug problem either. It's suffering from a civilized breakdown and drugs, booze and violence are the symptoms of this.

    I was in Amsterdam over this past week, a city widely considered to be more lenient on narcotics than most and possibly the drugs capital of Europe. I would never have considered myself in any danger at any point either.

    The "War on Drugs" has been consistently ridiculed as a war on poor black people in the States. Which it is. America needs a war on something at all times or else it will cease to be America.
    You make a few interesting points here. If only you could get over your anti-American bias, I could take you somewhat more seriously. You are absolutely correct when you say: "America is not suffering from a drug problem either. It's suffering from a civilized breakdown." So true, and so true of most first world countries these days, I would say. The problem does extend to (as Stu says below) pharmaceuticals taken by people which are prescribed by doctors who never should be in the profession in my opinion. Not too long ago I had a tooth removed and was prescribed a very high caliber opioid. I threw it in the rubbish as soon as I got home, and took Tylenol. However there are hundreds of thousands of people in America taking these opioids prescribed to them for minor ailments. For that the pharma companies and doctors are responsible.

    On the other hand there are the illegal street drugs coming from Mexico via Colombia and other parts. Just an update on that - Trump administration is on the verge of declaring MS 13 (El Salvadorian drug gang) as a terrorist organization. That will mean they'll be able to take the fight to El Salvador and Mexico in search of these drug lords.

  18. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    On the other hand there are the illegal street drugs coming from Mexico via Colombia and other parts. Just an update on that - Trump administration is on the verge of declaring MS 13 (El Salvadorian drug gang) as a terrorist organization. That will mean they'll be able to take the fight to El Salvador and Mexico in search of these drug lords.
    Yet more optics for Trumps redneck supporters.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/7-thin...talian-mafia-6
    If a dog weighs under 50 lbs it's a cat, and cats are useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Yet more optics for Trumps redneck supporters.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/7-thin...talian-mafia-6
    Redneck supporters. You have experience of them do you? Another throw-away comment with little basis in reality, and sure if it's anti-Trump it must be ok.
    As for the article - some interesting points but an awful lot of splitting hairs.
    Just so you know, MS 13 which this article speaks about is a very dangerous gang with some 10,000 organized members across the US.
    Their recent exploits - four teenagers killed in Long Island. Two more in same location last November / December.
    Two girls raped and murdered in Texas at the end of last year.
    A 14 year old girl raped by two gang in a school bathroom in Baltimore area six weeks ago (by an 18 year old and 17 year old whom some genius school official decided to put in class of younger girls to learn English).
    And let's not forget the call police in Georgia got a couple of months back to say there was a domestic dispute at a house. When they arrived a 16 year old MS teenager was holding his mother's head in one hand and a machete in another.
    Just a few facts that you should know.

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    In other news - you can expect a big anti-Trump rally tomorrow (Saturday) as Earth Day kicks off in the US. Why would an oil pipe line coming from the Dakotas to Texas garner so much hatred across the country?
    It wouldn't - there's a lot more to the story that they'll never tell you.
    And also at the weekend a conservative speaker, Anne Coulter, is scheduled to speak at Berkley University. It has the potential to be a wild scene as the brainwashed students and George Soros mobsters
    will not be able to bear hearing ideas from anyone that their professors don't approve of.
    And next Wednesday is a big day. That's when President Trump is scheduled to roll out a new tax cut deal.
    Say what you want about him but he is doing a lot more work than any president I can remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeirish View Post
    True, but do they affect all Trump supporters..?
    All too easy to throw out mindless comments. Are you capable of having a comprehensive discussion to back up your claims?

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    With all the focus on the liberal outlets, this is a fascinating piece on the impact of Trump and his victory on the conservative wing of MSM.

    "How Trump Blew Up the Conservative Media"
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...journal-215035

    While both Fox and Breitbart have undergone modest adjustments since Trump took office, his victory has thrown old-line conservative media into a state of genuine crisis. The conservative elite represented by the Wall Street Journal editorial page—whose hawkish, free-market views enjoyed outsize influence in previous Republican administrations—is now struggling to figure out what, exactly, its role is in the Trump era. After helping lay the groundwork for many of the policies of the Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush administrations, the elite conservative media have no place in the Trump White House. “They’re like the Catholic Church during the Great Schism, plagued by deep internal feuding, dancing on the head of a pin because they’re not important anymore,” says one executive of Dow Jones, the paper’s parent company, which is also run by Murdoch.

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