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Thread: Republic of Ireland v. Wales - Friday, 24th March 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

  1. #241
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    If you're going to keep babbling about something I allegedly said about McCarthy a few months/years ago because you have nothing else to defend Arter with than you can at least be a gentleman and provide a link to what I allegedly said.

    Robbie Brady is a first team player. He didn't have to travel to Dublin for a meaningless friendly we are likely to experiment with other options in. He could have taken a rain check on the Wales game and linked up with the squad at a later date with a view to featuring in the Iceland game.

    His commitment and dedication is impressive, so is McCarthy's.

    Arter could have shown a bit more.

    IMO.
    You constantly questioned McCarthy's commitment to our cause around the time he missed the Germany & Scotland away games, saying things like he'll be available for Everton's next game, etc, etc. Basically the same stuff you're doing now with Arter. I'll provide some links no problem if you're actually disputing or unsure of the fact?

    I don't need to defend Arter, I see absolutely no reason why he'd pull out of a squad for a massive qualifier unless he simply isn't fit enough to take part. He's just after getting into the first team picture after starting our best away result in decades, why would he not want to be involved against Wales?

    Brady's commitment is unquestionable but I'd be reluctant to dish out praise for him travelling in this situation, we have two games and he's fully fit and available for one of them, friendly or otherwise.


  2. #242
    International Prospect TheOneWhoKnocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    You constantly questioned McCarthy's commitment to our cause around the time he missed the Germany & Scotland away games, saying things like he'll be available for Everton's next game, etc, etc. Basically the same stuff you're doing now with Arter. I'll provide some links no problem if you're actually disputing or unsure of the fact?

    I don't need to defend Arter, I see absolutely no reason why he'd pull out of a squad for a massive qualifier unless he simply isn't fit enough to take part. He's just after getting into the first team picture after starting our best away result in decades, why would he not want to be involved against Wales?

    Brady's commitment is unquestionable but I'd be reluctant to dish out praise for him travelling in this situation, we have two games and he's fully fit and available for one of them, friendly or otherwise.
    Yes. I would like to see what I allegedly said about McCarthy.

    It's apples and oranges comparing Arter's situation to McCarthy's.

    Arter failed a late fitness test and didn't, to my knowledge, follow the protocol Hoolahan or McCarthy did and travel to Dublin to be assessed by the FAI. McCarthy has been and still is carrying an injury that would rule a lot of players out but is clearly determined to feature, even if it's a reduced role.

    McCarthy experienced undue pressure not just from his club manager, Roberto Martinez, but his national team manager, Giovanni Trapattoni, and Scotland's counterpart manager, in declaring for us.

    Over the years he has been unfortunate enough to have yet another manager, Ronald Koeman, who seems determined to drive a wedge.

    I will never question his commitment, how could I?

    Come off it. He's (Brady) a first team player and nobody would have batted an eyelid if he wasn't named in the squad when he's suspended for the most important game, I was surprised when he was.

    It's impressive that he's in Dublin right now and part of the squad when he doesn't have to be.

    Not everyone has that commitment to the cause.

  3. #243
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    I'll allow the current discussion in this thread, but be aware I'm watching. DeLorean, please produce evidence of what TOWK is alleged to have posted.

    The search option is straightforward to use.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

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  5. #244
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    You want evidence of towk claiming McCarthy's "alleged injury" (which allowed him to bottle out of) for the Scotland game? you're losing your memory Tets, you were even involved in the discussion


    For starters, somewhere on this page and onwards, probably previous too
    http://foot.ie/threads/68192-James-McCarthy/page214


  6. #245
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    I'm more worried it always being about Everton. There's a pattern developing.
    First we had Martinez and him trying to 'curry favour' with his wife by kowtowing to Scotland's cause and now we have Koeman and his pro Welsh agenda.

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    On brief examination it looks like "Towk" is taking issue with Everton and not McCarthy in fairness

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  9. #247
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I'll allow the current discussion in this thread, but be aware I'm watching. DeLorean, please produce evidence of what TOWK is alleged to have posted.

    The search option is straightforward to use.
    I know it is, and I had full intention of doing so... hence why I offered in my very last post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    On brief examination it looks like "Towk" is taking issue with Everton and not McCarthy in fairness
    There's no doubt that Martinez was on the receiving end of a lot of it but, seriously, if a player isn't dedicated and passionate enough to stand up to their club manager and misses massive games like Germany & Scotland as a result, then their own commitment is very much being questioned too in my opinion.


    Anyway, yeah, it's pretty much the discussion that Geysir linked. Here's a quick selection... (rinse & repeat and all that)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Let's face it. If it was an Everton game on Friday he would probably be available but we're going to have to plan without him on Friday.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    There is no speculation about the injuries being minor. They were. Did McCarthy technically even have an injury? They could have been aggravated but they were not serious enough to definitively rule them out of the Germany game so they should have been sent for assessment. That's partly the fault of the FAI's but you can be forgiven for thinking that Martinez wanted to use the International break to extend their rest period.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Not surprised about McCarthy's absence. I think he does have a minor issue and he would play on Friday if Everton were playing but they aren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    If McCarthy doesn't play Everton's next game I will literally eat a hat.

    And I would be very surprised if the same circus act doesn't come around again in March for the Poland game.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    A scan (fitness test typo my bad!) showed that McCarthy could play against Germany. McCarthy, under some pressure from his, club elected not to. O'Neill said he would have played if it was a league game but McCarthy made a judgement call.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    The bone of contention would be McCarthy missing a game he was adjudged fit enough to participate in. Not adjudged by me but by his managers and doctors.


  10. #248
    Seasoned Pro joe_denilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    On brief examination it looks like "Towk" is taking issue with Everton and not McCarthy in fairness
    Which begs the question why Bournemouth are not the brunt of his disdain this time. But that's for another thread at another time. Let's get our focus back on our biggest game of the campaign (in my opinion).

    Hopefully the Aviva will be rocking. It's a shame we have all the injuries, even if not all of them were starters.

    With the raft of players missing, I can see the management going down the conversative route in starting XI.
    Which means Randolph in goal.
    Coleman, O'Shea and Keogh(poss Pearce), Ward,
    Whelan, McCarthy, Hendrick
    Walters, Long, McClean.

    Then off the bench, McGeady, Meyler(if it's going well), Murphy(if it's not going well), Horgan/O'Dowda or Hayes.

    Unlikely to see, Westwood, C.Doyle, Boyle, Egan, Christie(unless Coleman is fupped), Hourihane, O'Kane or K.Doyle, although all will probably see action against Iceland.

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  12. #249
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    I don't need to defend Arter, I see absolutely no reason why he'd pull out of a squad for a massive qualifier unless he simply isn't fit enough to take part. He's just after getting into the first team picture after starting our best away result in decades, why would he not want to be involved against Wales?
    The notion that Arter has skived off or gone AWOL is ludicrous. It's simply not plausible and I'm surprised the insinuations and accusations have been allowed stand on the forum considering it's a pretty serious allegation to make about a player in terms of his professional integrity and general commitment.

    As you say, Del, after accepting call-ups for friendly games, why, if Arter has supposedly never been truly committed to our cause, would he choose that now, as opposed to before the previous numerous friendly squads in which he's participated, is the time to skive off when he'd have been in line to start a crucial World Cup qualifier (one of the biggest games of his career to date)? Why would he ever have bothered accepting call-ups in the first place if he wasn't truly bothered? Why would he have insisted that he was fully committed to the Irish cause when he might have been in the reckoning for an England call-up earlier this season? Why not just hold off for a more-lucrative England call-up? It just doesn't add up; his words and actions aren't consistent with someone lacking in commitment.

    He has an "excellent" relationship with the squad, as reported by Miguel Delaney last October. Roy Keane has had no doubts over his commitment in the past despite previous injuries and media-talk about a potential England-switch. And, clearly, Martin O'Neill has a good, trusting relationship with Arter too. There's obviously mutual respect there between all concerned; people on the inside and in the know. That's good enough to keep me satisfied.

    And this idea that he might have headed off to Dubai with Bournemouth without consultation with the Irish medical staff is just baloney. If the FAI had felt the need to bring him over to Dublin for a medical inspection due to doubts over the veracity of his asserted injury, they'd have been fully entitled to do so and so obviously would have done just that. In light of the fact that they didn't, I would suggest it is fair to assume that they were satisfied by whatever evidence Bournemouth/Arter presented to them to demonstrate or indicate to them that there was no prospect of Arter being fit for the upcoming game(s). Thus, I would suggest it is also fair to assume that he has headed off to Dubai with his club to proceed with his rehab programme, as reported by John Fallon. If Arter had headed off to Dubai without the consent of or against the will of the Irish management and medical team, we'd certainly have heard about it by now. To be of the belief that Arter has gone AWOL is just cloud cuckoo land stuff and substantiation ought to be demanded if such nonsense is going to be peddled and regurgitated on here.

    Brady's commitment is unquestionable but I'd be reluctant to dish out praise for him travelling in this situation, we have two games and he's fully fit and available for one of them, friendly or otherwise.
    Agreed. Considering Brady is fit and he was selected for this squad (which is a two-game squad), of course he has to travel. He's hardly going to be allowed get away with saying, "Sorry, Martin/Roy, I'm suspended for the big one so I really couldn't be arsed for the second game and I'm just gonna stay at home instead, but best of luck sure!"

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  14. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    I don't think that would be a surprise call at all if Hoolahan is out. Anything other than that would be a bigger surprise in the circumstances.

    I think Olé is probably pretty close with his starting XI above, except Hendrick will start without question.
    I agree wholeheartedly. Oversight on my part there.

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  16. #251
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Come off it. He's (Brady) a first team player and nobody would have batted an eyelid if he wasn't named in the squad when he's suspended for the most important game, I was surprised when he was.

    It's impressive that he's in Dublin right now and part of the squad when he doesn't have to be.
    I don't need to come off anything, he's fit, he's selected, he's probably playing. Who says he doesn't have to be there? Have you some sort of evidence that Martin O'Neill gave him the option of remaining in England? I think Brady would have come over even if he did, I believe he's just as committed as you're saying, but this particular situation doesn't emphasise that point.

    If Martin O'Neill decided that there was no point in naming him in the squad then fair enough, but I'd find it strange if Brady initiated talks saying that there was no point in him travelling just for a friendly despite being fully fit. I don't see it as a massive display of commitment that he didn't initiate those kind of talks, just professional.

    You call the McCarthy & Arter situations apples and oranges despite arguing that they both could have played for us at various times but didn't, that they would have played through the discomfort had they been clubs games, that they'll be back playing without a bother in a few days for their clubs.

    The only distinction I can see was the bee in your bonnet about Everton Football Club and their manager putting pressure on McCarthy, but surely he should have been man enough to explain how much he wanted to play if he really was that committed and fitness wasn't really the issue?

    How you can call those two situations apples & oranges but think the Brady/Arter thing is a reasonable comparison is truly astounding.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 20/03/2017 at 11:27 PM.


  17. #252
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    I think O'Neill might go with 3 nominally in the middle of the park, but with one of them instructed to man-mark Bale.
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

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    I don't think he will man mark Bale, but agreed I think he will go with McClean and Walters with mcgeady in the middle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    I don't think he will man mark Bale, but agreed I think he will go with McClean and Walters with mcgeady in the middle
    He could go with Meyler Whelan and Hendrick in midfield. McGeady and McClean on the wings with Walters up front on his own. Long to be brought off the bench when the Welsh defence is tired.
    "We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo

  20. #255
    Not Entirely Sure nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Randolph

    Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward

    Walters Whelan Meyler Hendrick McClean

    Long

    Or

    Randolph

    Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward

    McGeady Whelan Hendrick McClean

    Walters

    Long

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    "I would imagine Glenn Whelan playing the role which closes any gaps for Bale. The players around him will provide him simple information to keep an eye on him, and the back four will be communicating 'left shoulder, right shoulder' whenever Bale moves. Whelan's spatial awareness will be vital to keep Wales and Bale away from our goal."

    Intersting from Hunt, when a fellow player comes out with that, you have to take note really. Perhaps I've just completely misunderstood Whelan all these years.

    It sounded like Skstu was questioning in the sense, who is kelly, not so much was he injured
    Fair enough and whelan has had an amazing career. To my eyes when whelan plays we drop 10 yards back because whelan doesn't have the pace and mobility of McCarthy to cover the ground which makes it so difficult to get midfield support to our front players.the goal we gave up against Scotland at home is a clear example Of The myth that's gone around about whelans amazing positional sense which is supposed to outweigh all his limitations.no way we can play a high press which definitely suits us with glen anchoring that midfield

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  23. #257
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    Ironic that it's Hunt who comes out with the expert opinion on the spatial awareness of the central midfielder, hard to forget his cameos in that position, I suppose one could say he had an usual approach to his positioning in that space.

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    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Wow with the number of injuries we have it looks like we will have to call off the fixture altogether.

  25. #259
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    It sounded like Skstu was questioning in the sense, who is kelly, not so much was he injured
    No - I've been following Kelly on here. Just wasn't sure if he was injured truly or just pulled out for nefarious reasons. I thought he was 2 or 3G but he seems to have nailed his colours to the mast.
    Last edited by SkStu; 21/03/2017 at 3:23 AM.

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    Kelly like others not born in the Irish Republic (Arter, Clark and Elliott among them) really don't care about their adopted country and even have the audacity to go on trips to Dubai. Terrible!

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