TheJournal.ie debunks Arlene's claim that "there are more people in Northern Ireland that speak Polish, than speak Irish": http://www.thejournal.ie/arlene-fost...28915-Feb2017/
Originally Posted by TheJournal.ie
Still, overall, I thought she came across well and has a much cheerier persona than the abrasive, hyper-defensive and off-putting Arlene, who exhibits an old-school style of a dinosaur politics. People will warm to O'Neill. Arlene's style has had its day; it's pre-GFA era "not an inch" unionism. O'Neill also showed willingness for self-reflection and self-criticism when she accepted that Michelle Gildernew's talk of "putting manners" on Arlene wasn't the right sort of language for Sinn Féin party members to be using in relation to political counterparts and that she had had a word with Gildernew to make her aware of her disapproval. That showed moral courage as it is something sorely lacking from northern politics, so it is to be welcomed.
As for being Adams' "lapdog" (which is essentially what Foster said O'Neill amounted to, yet Foster had the nerve to pull the disingenuous "misogyny" card in order to get herself off the hook and undermine her critics when the RHI scandal blew up), O'Neill correctly pointed out that Adams is the general party president and that her leadership was further approved by the party's ard chomhairle.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 14/02/2017 at 11:45 AM.
Here is the link - http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...tion-1.2972631 - for the piece I posted above, it didn't seem possible within one post.
Can Sinn Fein be right here ? As to my eyes this is the shot they are playing, that the DUP vote can be splintered to a worthwhile extent for them. If they are correct and the above piece is accurate and replicates across presently DUP held zones, then they will have spotted something remarkable long before the DUP did.
I don't think it had to be taken to the cliff edge over RHI. And the language grant, while being a colossally ignorant moment of regression in the DUPs very gradual journey into this century, would still be water off a ducks back considering the levels of discrimination endured to get things to this stage in NI.
Foster is reduced presently to ranting about the consequences for 'their' way of life if these pesky Catholics get to the levers of power, while SF calmly campaigns on equality for all. You have played a very poor hand when the recently retired gunmen have got you in a snooker like this
First televised debate just kicking off on UTV in case any of you over the border want to have a look at how Nordie monkeys throw **** at each other in a cage.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
My review of tonights debate. I zoned out about half way through tbh.
Arlene Foster: Permanent scowl. You would think someone who had been in politics since she was in school would be happy about leading her country/province/occupied statelet. Looked like a bulldog that had licked a ****y nettle throughout. -8/10
Mike Nesbitt: He's comfortable in the role now and his knowledge of the media game shows. Took a bit of damage on Brexit though. Daft glasses that were designed for a much younger man but still a solid 7/10
Naomi Long: Naomi is now morbidly obese. Most people could stand to drop a few lbs but FFS. Middle of the road performance from a middle of the road leader of a middle of the road party. 6/10 Lest anyone think it sexist to criticise her appearance that leads me on to...
Colm Eastwood: Colm has grown a beard to avoid looking like he's there on work experience. He did really well, but he was pushed all the way by the white spot on his chin. Strongest performance of the night tbf. 8/10
The white spot on Colm's chin: Not much to say, but managed to distract attention any time Colm had a salient point to make. Succeeded in recognising Colm was the strongest competitor, and dragged itself up to his level by making him look silly on several occasions. Colm pipped it, but it was close. 7/10
Michelle O'Neill: Michelle was presumably nervous. This was her first experience of this sort of event and it showed. Didn't even have as much to say as Colm's Spot. Still did better than Arlene mind. 6/10
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
I haven't had a chance to see the debate yet myself - I'll try get a chance tomorrow or over the weekend - but it can be viewed again online here for anyone interested: http://www.itv.com/news/utv/story/20...ection-debate/
Foster was interviewed on 'The View' tonight as well and performed abysmally: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...-view-16022017
Mark Carruthers is a shrewd inquisitor and Newton Emerson/Deirdre Heenan duly tore Foster to shreds in their analyses.
I only realised it was on when it was over! Would have loved to see how Arlene squirmed. She's truly horrid.
Will view it back over the weekend.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Arlene warned of UUP-to-SDLP vote transfers potentially leading to a Sinn Féin-driven unity referendum, which is dubious reasoning as it is. A unity referendum in the short-term isn't SDLP-policy. In fact, I'm not even sure it's genuinely Sinn Féin's either behind all the post-Brexit "border poll" rhetoric; it's a long-term strategy of the party that they know will require much more work than convincing a simple majority of the northern electorate to vote in favour. Either Foster is disingenuously scaremongering for votes or is genuinely terrified by the prospect of such a referendum. What is there for her to fear if the union with Britain is as secure as she asserts it to be? Hmm...
Less a debunking, more dancing on the head of a pin. The Journal didn't/ couldn't answer two basic criticisms: barely anyone speaks Irish (ie to the extent of daily conversation), but many who don't (ie can't be bothered) choose to use it as a form of p*ssing out their territory. That Michelle has no idea how much it would cost and Arlene can't remember during interviews just adds to the fun...Originally Posted by DI
People already have, she's been acclaimed by the SF Nurnberg Rally without anything as boring as open election by party members. We'll see shortly how much credit she gets for sounding cheerful, answering questions directly, or publically criticising off-message colleagues. And whether it's outweighed by discredit for not reading or writing the brief,or hanging out at Provo commemorations.People will warm to O'Neill
Don't entirely agree. Carruthers interrupts far too much- he's there to ask questions, not answer them. Emerson (while good on the economics) overdid the faux outrage. They'd have been better gently pressing her further on RHI, rather than spluttering pointlessly about who went to which game at the Euros. But yes, it wasn't a great performance by Foster.Mark Carruthers is a shrewd inquisitor and Newton Emerson/Deirdre Heenan duly tore Foster to shreds in their analyses
It's the former. It should persuade some wavering voters. Therefore it's quite logical reasoningArlene warned of UUP-to-SDLP vote transfers potentially leading to a Sinn Féin-driven unity referendum, which is dubious reasoning as it is...Either Foster is disingenuously scaremongering for votes or is genuinely terrified by the prospect of such a referendum
Last year, DUP beat TUV by 25% (43-18) in North Antrim (by far the latter's best performance). Across NI, Foster's party was NINE times more popular than Allister's. His name wasn't enough to get his mates elected. Opinion polls so far suggest little real change to that.Originally Posted by CTP
Is “in politics” there a euphemism? Her involvement while still at school was hardly voluntary?Originally Posted by BttW
Last edited by Gather round; 18/02/2017 at 6:25 AM.
This really doesn't make much sense IMO.
It just reads as even more pompous waffle in the main.
Fáinne óir-level Gaeilgeoirí (like my mother, for example, and thousands of others similar to her), fáinne airgid-level Gaeilgeoirí and less competent speakers (like myself, who have bit of Irish but who'd like to improve our overall comprehension and usage), as well as those with an interest in or cultural affiliation with the language (a very significant portion - up to a third, if not more - of the population of the north), along with as those who don't necessarily have a direct attachment to the language but see the cultural worth in its protection/promotion (for example, many of those in Alliance and the Green Party, considering an Irish language act is also party policy for them, as far as I know), will be contributing to the cost of the act through their paid taxes. We all want it - hundreds of thousands of us - and are happy to contribute to its potential cost.
Regardless, a firm and written commitment was made, so there is an imperative duty upon the British government and those who'll be in power in the north to work towards making it a practical and affordable reality, however that may be.
The purpose will be to help a language native to Ireland flourish - maybe the north can become a truly bilingual region in the future even - and to allow those for whom it is a first language the right to use it when dealing with public institutions.
Out of interest, for what reason do you think Linda Ervine speaks Irish?
I think that particular example was simply indicative of just how inconsistent she is/was. She saw McGuinness and the British monarch shaking hands as being a significant and worthwhile gesture, but couldn't apply the same logic to the idea of her attending a game at the Euros featuring the team supported by up to half the native population of the bi-communal jurisdiction of which she was first minister. Instead, she shunned the notion of attending an Ireland game - the team of the north's nationalist community - because she "believes in Northern Ireland", as if, inexplicably, going to an Ireland game would have negated or contradicted her support for NI in some way... More dubious logic.They'd have been better gently pressing her further on RHI, rather than spluttering pointlessly about who went to which game at the Euros.
She was all over the place on so much and looked tired and dejected. Usually she's up for the fight, but she's clearly lacking the confidence of her party/base and you can see that that translates into a lack of self-belief and confidence in the stability of her own position.
Touché.It's the former. It should persuade some wavering voters. Therefore it's quite logical reasoning
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 19/02/2017 at 6:33 AM.
Foster's interview on 'The View' (plus analysis) for those who can't view BBC iPlayer:
Were she an NI center half she'd have been twisted one way, then another before being nutmegged and landing on her arse trying to turn.
If people get the politicians they deserve, then her people deserve everything they get if / when they return her. There isn't a scrap or a syllable of credibility to that, never mind a path of leadership or a vision of what is best for her people, just circle the wagons tighter and tighter, round and round the plughole getting closer to the plughole every orbit. Futureless mindset. Good luck to her.
Foster wants a row and Brokenshire to avoid the issue, but what's to stop interested parties discussing with each other then costing some proposals?Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Truly bilingual? You aren't serious- the South has never been that despite nearly a century with Irish as the supposedly main language. As for public institutions, how do you see it working in the Courts, for example?The purpose will be to help a language native to Ireland flourish - maybe the north can become a truly bilingual region in the future even - and to allow those for whom it is a first language the right to use it when dealing with public institutions
I can't remember, although wasn't there a TV doc with her recently? Alas I missed it.Out of interest, for what reason do you think Linda Ervine speaks Irish?
Fair points, although her going to watch both teams in France would still have been an empty stunt. With little or no credit either from the DUP base, or from broad Nationalism.I think that particular [Euros] example was simply indicative of just how inconsistent she is/was...She was all over the place on so much and looked tired and dejected. Usually she's up for the fight, but she's clearly lacking the confidence of her party/base and you can see that that translates into a lack of self-belief and confidence in the stability of her own position
Like many on here (I assume), I too think she's more than likely to go in March or soon after. Some combination of a fallen DUP vote share, weariness as you suggest and possibly whatever the RHI Inquiry unearths. But there's no guarantee. What will you do if she survives?
I'll resist the temptation to imagine RoI center-halfs Michelle and Colm running into each other as er, Longue, Greenman, and PBPayet amble through unchallenged to score
As per reply to DI above, there are actually one or two. 50% of the turnout will probably still vote Unionist, her party will still well outnumber Nesbitt and Allister, if they remain ahead of SF and the vote share holds up she might survive. Her base may not care about any of the issues she stumbled over.There isn't a scrap or a syllable of credibility to that
And that's just an odd analogy.
On er, mature reflection, I've downgraded Foster's performance in that interview from D to D-
I didn't manage the latter until enrolling as a student at TCD, although I'd done my first live TV aged 11 (Songs of Praise). They gave us all a Gideon Bible as a momento.
Last edited by Gather round; 19/02/2017 at 12:47 PM.
I'd have thought the fact that the white spot on Colm Eastwoods chin had a rating of it's own would have been a big clue that the post was tongue is cheek tbh.
Edit: Apparently i won't edit the post. I haven't got an edit button but consider the remark withdrawn and replaced.
Despite leaving the DUP over the leadership of David Trimble, she is making exactly the same mistakes as him, with an added dollop of corruption for good measure.
Last edited by backstothewall; 19/02/2017 at 1:36 PM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Isn't Wales regarded as bilingual now?Truly bilingual? You aren't serious- the South has never been that despite nearly a century with Irish as the supposedly main language. As for public institutions, how do you see it working in the Courts, for example?
As for public institutions and the courts, translators could be used where there is no Irish speaker available in whatever role is concerned.
I hadn't seen that either, although I had a look on YouTube there and came across an interesting talk she did on the history of Protestants and the Irish language:I can't remember, although wasn't there a TV doc with her recently? Alas I missed it.
Ah, I dunno. I think it would have been well received. When she congratulated us on our victory over Italy via Twitter, it was well received. Personally-speaking, I appreciated it. Going to one of our games would have showed initiative and would have amounted to a positive and progressive gesture of leadership.Fair points, although her going to watch both teams in France would still have been an empty stunt. With little or no credit either from the DUP base, or from broad Nationalism.
Was McGuinness shaking the queen's hand an empty stunt too then?
I find it difficult to envisage her surviving, but, if she were indeed to hang on, something somehow will have to be made work that accommodates everybody. Or so I would hope anyway. If Stormont can't be made work, perhaps joint British and Irish authority would be a more tolerable alternative (if viable) than direct rule from Westminster.Like many on here (I assume), I too think she's more than likely to go in March or soon after. Some combination of a fallen DUP vote share, weariness as you suggest and possibly whatever the RHI Inquiry unearths. But there's no guarantee. What will you do if she survives?