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Thread: Rugby 2016

  1. #21
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Nope... I understand the argument perfectly fine.

    We should be rejoicing (or at least entirely satisfied) at getting the win we so badly needed. Anything less and it was curtains. That was the priority beforehand so mission accomplished. A bonus point would have been even better but I don't think many would have been expecting or demanding that.
    We got the win, great, (but against that French team that has what? 3 wins away from Paris in the 6N in the last 5 years) - but I'm saying it was not a good performance, at least not a good attacking performance anyway - people can be allowed criticize that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    I saw the game so I don't really need the stats, but thanks.
    No problem - they make interesting reading - we dominated in every facet of the game yet needed a late penalty to secure the win. Hardly the stuff of legend. But no - rejoice I tell thee - or at least be entirely satisfied.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    We won by a winning margin that the three best teams in the world right now could only equal between them in recent matches against France. They're not the most dangerous French team in memory but they're no whipping boys either.
    Two of those teams we have beaten in the same period, the third hopefully we can beat on Saturday week - but one thing is for sure - we won't beat them if we are not way more creative in attack. I'm not saying they are whipping boys but we could have got 30+ Saturday if we really pressed home our advantage in the latter stages.

  2. #22
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    We will need to be a lot more clinical to beat England. It was an OK performance, but rejoice? Give me a break.
    Rejoice = happiness, pleasure, joy, gladness, delight, elation, cheer, jubilation, euphoria, delirium, ecstasy, rapture, transports of delight, exuberance, exultation, glory, triumph, celebration, revelry, merrymaking, festivity, feasting.

    Not being a huge rugby fan, a few of those definitions would not apply to me but happiness, pleasure, joy, delight, cheer would certainly apply. The main objective in any sport is to win and every supporter should rejoice when their team wins for that afterall is the object of the match. Everything else is secondary. True, if I may use a football analogy, the only time I might expect more than just a win is when we are playing a minnow such as Liechtenstein or San Marino etc but otherwise I am happy with a win, no matter what the performance. Others may go to the game or sit on their barstool to be entertained. All I want from my team is a win and I rejoice if and when it happens. In rugby terms, France are no minnows and they have far more rugby players than we do and a much greater record of success than we do. Ireland has a losing record against all the "home nations" and France, especially. I rejoice when we beat them and anything else is a bonus and I make no apology for the use of the word.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  3. #23
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Yeah fair enough but I'd go as far as happiness above in your list of adjectives - anything else is OTT. I'm always happy to beat France as you quite correctly pointed out we don't have a good record against them

    However the context is important - as I've tried - ( and largely failed to convince anyway) to argue - France haven't won a game of note in long time bar 2 results in about 5 years. The fact that we won with a late penalty was nothing to write home about. The minimum we should have expected was a win. A defeat would have been a disaster.

    It's just a pity we couldn't push on at the end - I thought, looking at the stats, and the overall run of the game, 23-6 or even 30-6 would have been a fairer reflection of the game to me. We have massive difficulty turning the screw.

    If you look back over the last few years - the defeat to Wales when we spent the whole 2nd half camped on their line, the crushing World Cup defeat to Argentina, the bitterly disappointing defeats to France last year and Scotland this year, the abject failure to win that test series against that God awful South African team -all suggests to me that we a mentally a touch fragile and certainly not as consistent as our talent says we should be. To counteract that we have had some good wins alright - NZ a case in point but is this team really fulfilling our potential when it matters? I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm being too harsh I dunno. Lets hope for 2 big 80 min performances in the next 2 weeks and another championship. Lets face it - there is a World Cup in this group if we strive for it. But the litany of disasters populated amongst some good success needs to be acknowledged also.

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  5. #24
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    However the context is important - as I've tried - ( and largely failed to convince anyway) to argue - France haven't won a game of note in long time bar 2 results in about 5 years. The fact that we won with a late penalty was nothing to write home about. The minimum we should have expected was a win. A defeat would have been a disaster.
    You've explained your point well, I suppose there's no point in disputing how we should or shouldn't feel after a match, you feel how you feel. Like you said, a defeat would have been a disaster, therefore avoiding that outcome was enough for me to feel very very satisfied. It doesn't mean it was a perfect performance and it can't be critically analysed.

  6. #25
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    I have been wary of wading into this argument, but suffice to say I'm with RaM on this. I hate when we don't mash teams when the opportunity is there to do it. Really winds me up.


    Anyway, moving onto Friday's small matter...

    Kearney back, Bowe on bench... and the roof will be closed...

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/0...s-roof-closed/
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  7. #26
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    I'm done with Kearney. Take the high ball out and he's a passenger.
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  8. #27
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    I'm done with Kearney. Take the high ball out and he's a passenger.
    Had the worst game of his career against France. Its like playing with 14. Another poor performance but still could have won only for Henshaw's Brain fart in the maul. We are so predictable going forward its actually beyond a joke.

  9. #28
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Rhyle Nugent and Donal Lenihan pretty much thought we just had to show up to win. And once they started saying what a poor season George North was having, I knew what as going to happen. Of course there is no co-relation between what a commentator predicts and what happens, but it just irritates the hell out of me when they say these things (tempting fate and all that). The friendly against NZ in Chicago aside, Ireland have found scoring tries difficult. I just don't think the team is as good as many in the rugby fraternity think it is based upon the friendlies against the southern hemisphere teams. That said, one mistake at a maul was the difference between winning and losing. O'Brien and Heaslip had quiet games by their standards and with Ireland's three best players going off injured, it was going to be a tough ask in Cardiff. I am from the generation where if Ireland only lost by 20 points in Wales, it was a result.

    It's now a one off game against England - a bit like the southern hemisphere games so I wouldn't discount a win, although they looked mighty impressive against Scotland but not so impressive in the other games.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  10. #29
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Stade and Racing to merge.

    Absolute shocker.

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/0...cais-to-merge/
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    Rhyle Nugent and Donal Lenihan pretty much thought we just had to show up to win. And once they started saying what a poor season George North was having, I knew what as going to happen. Of course there is no co-relation between what a commentator predicts and what happens, but it just irritates the hell out of me when they say these things (tempting fate and all that). The friendly against NZ in Chicago aside, Ireland have found scoring tries difficult. I just don't think the team is as good as many in the rugby fraternity think it is based upon the friendlies against the southern hemisphere teams. That said, one mistake at a maul was the difference between winning and losing. O'Brien and Heaslip had quiet games by their standards and with Ireland's three best players going off injured, it was going to be a tough ask in Cardiff. I am from the generation where if Ireland only lost by 20 points in Wales, it was a result.

    It's now a one off game against England - a bit like the southern hemisphere games so I wouldn't discount a win, although they looked mighty impressive against Scotland but not so impressive in the other games.
    As a fellow cricket fan you might agree that some of our recent games have been like those test cricket matches that have been very tight for the most part, but with the score-line suggesting a clear winner. Tight test cricket matches are often decided on the big moments. We won the big moments vs France (e.g., not going 0-10 down), lost the big moments vs Wales (e.g., Henshaw, Sexton). Also, home advantage is massive in these games.

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  13. #31
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Predictions for the game. I'll start by saying either an Irish win or a big win for England. Let's plump for the former as Ireland seem to be able to raise their game in matches like this.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  14. #32
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Hope I'm wrong but we will lose by 10-15 unless England lay an egg. I'd like to see the team first mind you, there will probably be much needed changes which may help us. But instead of seeing Kearney dropped we could see McFadden on the bench. Mindset is key and we seem to have lost all momentum. The Irish team is much like this post. Incoherent.

  15. #33
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Murray's out...

    But Kearney's also out...

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/six-nations/...d-six-nations/
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  16. #34
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Good win. Stop NZ getting 18 in a row at the start of the season, stop England at the end. Pity we were so Mediocre in between. Still finished 2nd.

  17. #35
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Was always a possibility because the team can play with great entensity on occasions for the big games but very hard to play like that every game. Enjoyable.

  18. #36
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Looking ahead we have the following to look forward to:

    - Lions tour in Summer and USA (1 game) and Japan (2) for the rest - suspect our top 8-10 players will tour with the Lions prob rising to 11-13 with injuries etc

    - 3 tests in Autumn of this year are penciled in as South Africa / Tier 2 team / Argentina.

    - 2018 six nations fixtures to be announced in a few weeks.

    - the end of year tour for 2018 is a mouth watering 3 tests away to Australia.

  19. #37
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Lions squad named and 11 Irish players make the cut. There were 16 from England, 12 from Wales and only 2 from Scotland. Seems like a huge squad although I suppose will have to account for the injuries. I have to agree with a lot of the sentiment that Payne is lucky to be in there and I think Cian Healy, Keith Earls and even Ringrose could have deserved a call up. Scotland fans will have to be disgusted at their representation though - and justifiably so given their performances this year...

    Forwards: Rory Best (Ireland), Dan Cole (England), Taulupe Faletau (Wales), Tadhg Furlong (Ireland), Jamie George (England), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), George Kruis (England), Courtney Lawes (England), Joe Marler (England), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Ross Moriarty (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Peter O'Mahony (Ireland), Ken Owens (Wales), Kyle Sinckler (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Billy Vunipola (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Sam Warburton (Wales)

    Backs: Dan Biggar (Wales), Elliot Daly (England), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Owen Farrell (England), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland), Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Jonathan Joseph (England), Conor Murray (Ireland), George North (Wales), Jack Nowell (England), Jared Payne (Ireland), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Tommy Seymour (Scotland), Ben Te'o (England), Anthony Watson (England), Rhys Webb (Wales), Liam Williams (Wales), Ben Youngs (England)

  20. #38
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    I've never warmed to the Lions. And It's unlikely I will this time 'round either. Roll on our tour to the USA.
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  21. #39
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Cian Healy? Barely first choice for Leinster!

    We are off to USA and Japan Bonnie. The Japan series will be interesting, not Gimmies at all.

  22. #40
    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Cian Healy? Barely first choice for Leinster!

    We are off to USA and Japan Bonnie. The Japan series will be interesting, not Gimmies at all.
    He is first choice for Leinster. Sure he has a Furlong and a couple of other youngsters coming up the inside and challenging him strongly but he's won his place back after a couple of tough seasons with injury and has the most appearances and minutes in his position so that to me suggests first choice.

    Don't get me wrong, he was not a slam-dunk for selection by any means in my opinion but he is very good and very experienced and has played with the Lions before. He was also mentioned quite a bit recently in a couple of places as warranting a spot.

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