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Thread: PCA League Proposal

  1. #41
    Not Entirely Sure nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gufcfan View Post
    Have to disagree. A big part of the reason the FD is such a graveyard is because there is no consequence for being terrible. The League of Ireland isn't popular enough to support what is a de facto franchise league with no relegation from it. Francise is a dirty word in Euorpe, but that's exactly what he have here.
    Nobody suggested having no relegation.

  2. #42
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Of the reports on the League in recent times I think this one is the most impressive. Leaving aside the proposal to change format, which I'd see as a side issue here, it's highlighting the importance of the league to the national team is absolutely crucial and this report does that very well. We all know the national team is the only part of Irish football that consistently makes money- so helping everyone, especially at the FAI understand our league is important to that (because the reliance on English football to produce our top players isn't sustainable) makes 100% sense.

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    First Team gufc2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gufcfan View Post
    Have to disagree. A big part of the reason the FD is such a graveyard is because there is no consequence for being terrible. The League of Ireland isn't popular enough to support what is a de facto franchise league with no relegation from it. Francise is a dirty word in Euorpe, but that's exactly what he have here.
    My comment was more leant towards the Premier Division ,that I should have clarified.I agree completely that the First Division doesn't punish teams who are brutal, hopefully this could be rectified at some point.

  4. #44
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    the importance of the league to the national team is absolutely crucial and this report does that very well. We all know the national team is the only part of Irish football that consistently makes money- so helping everyone, especially at the FAI understand our league is important to that (because the reliance on English football to produce our top players isn't sustainable) makes 100% sense.
    I think this is the key alright. Previous reports - Gabay, Conroy, Genesis - have never actually asked what the point of the league is. This report is suggesting - as you say - that the point is to generate players for the national team, and shows just how far behind we are compared to pretty much every other league in Europe of a someway comparable size.

    The logical conclusion of that is that it makes sense for the FAI to invest in the league - and it's worrying that Gabay almost mocked clubs who were looking for more money. I wonder had he seen this report?

    I think only then can you look at league format. What do you want to do with the league? I think you have to try and grow it - bring in new teams and try develop them to the stage where they can produce players as well. But nobody wants to join the First Division - so it seems it has to go. And the MSL/LSL/USL will probably try to reject a merger with the First Division - so it makes sense to merge as few clubs into the new FD as possible and change the MSL/LSL/USL format as little as possible. Then if clubs want to get promoted to the Premier, they can (if they're good enough - you want to avoid a situation where a club with potential like Cabo get promoted and then flounder because it turns out they're crap) and if they don't want to get promoted, they can stay where they are. I think a 16-team Premier is the format which fits that aim the best. (You could argue for a 20-team Premier - all the current LoI clubs - but I think that's too much)

  5. #45
    Seasoned Pro outspoken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gufcfan View Post
    Have to disagree. A big part of the reason the FD is such a graveyard is because there is no consequence for being terrible. The League of Ireland isn't popular enough to support what is a de facto franchise league with no relegation from it. Francise is a dirty word in Euorpe, but that's exactly what he have here.
    Agree with ya there.

  6. #46
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    There is no consequence for being rubbish in the first division? I think anyone who has been even remotely involved in keeping a first division club going when the first team is going badly would beg to differ. It's absolutely brutal, and just surviving as a club in that environment is an achievement in itself.

    And that's why it's so hard to get clubs to join the league- hence we have reduced from 22 to 20 and it seems more likely we will reduce further than gain more clubs.
    Last edited by Mr A; 04/01/2017 at 10:30 AM.


  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    What do you want to do with the league? I think you have to try and grow it - bring in new teams and try develop them to the stage where they can produce players as well. But nobody wants to join the First Division - so it seems it has to go. And the MSL/LSL/USL will probably try to reject a merger with the First Division - so it makes sense to merge as few clubs into the new FD as possible and change the MSL/LSL/USL format as little as possible. Then if clubs want to get promoted to the Premier, they can (if they're good enough - you want to avoid a situation where a club with potential like Cabo get promoted and then flounder because it turns out they're crap)
    Clubs going from intermediate football one season to playing the likes of Dundalk in a single Premier Division the next would be far too big a leap IMO, and would set most of the new entrants up for failure.

    The First Division has many flaws, but it does at least provide a softer transition into senior football for clubs. Would Cabinteely still be in the LOI if they'd been thrown straight in at the deep end from the start ? Or would they have even joined in the first place ? The gap in quality between the top PD clubs and the lower FD clubs is getter even bigger over time e.g. 2 PD Clubs in the Europa League group stages in the last 5 years, and you wouldn't rule out more in the next 5.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I don't agree with you on the First Division really. Only three clubs have joined it and haven't gone bust or withdrawn. That's not a ringing endorsement. So why would a new team enter? And if the league has a barrier to entry like that, it's in trouble.

    Cabinteely aren't a great comparison as they were catapulted into the league from I don't know what division. The result is that they were out of their depth a bit and have struggled. That's not a way to grow a league.

    So imagine someone like Tralee earning promotion on the field - so they're an ok side to start with; they've finished ahead of half the current First Division for starters - and then their first league game is home to Dundalk, nor away to UCD. Then they have a reason to aim for league status, and then they could start to grow as a club.

    Yes, they might get thumped. But anyone can get thumped. The issue here is that the First Division has failed - not "a 10/12 team league has failed; let's change to a 12/10 team league, but really genuinely failed - and something new is needed to grow the league. Not to grow the top clubs, not to grow the 20 clubs, but to grow the whole league.

    Conroy is more of that same; that's its huge failure as a report.

  9. #49
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Cabinteely aren't a great comparison as they were catapulted into the league from I don't know what division.
    The Leinster Football League, the level below the LSL. They left the LSL in 2012 I think.

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  11. #50
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    PCA say they now reject a 10-team league; want their report examined more closely.

    So - it is still 3 down 1 up, is it? Or are we just setting the way for a change back to a 12-team league in a couple of seasons?

    Gotta love this league.

    https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...-team-leagues/

  12. #51
    Coach Longfordian's Avatar
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    I would think the FAI will impose a 10 team division anyway.
    "He mightn't always be right but he's never wrong"

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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm not sure what the recourse is here, now that the FAI have already confirmed their plan. I doubt the opposed clubs will threaten to walk.

    Proper mess though. Stinks that Limerick and Drogs weren't consulted, because it would presumably have been tied in the initial vote then, and 7-5 against now.

    Of course, the FD clubs should also have had a voice, and I'd imagine a good few, or maybe even all of them, would have been in favour of a 10/10 split.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    I doubt the FD clubs want 10/10?

    Or is that a typo?

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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Wouldn't many FD clubs appreciate a bigger division? More diversity in opponents, 8 more games a season.

    Edit: Obviously, I'm sure they'd like it to be accomplished by getting more clubs into the LOI but within the confines of the 20 teams we have this is the only way to increase the size of the FD.
    Last edited by NeverFeltBetter; 05/01/2017 at 9:18 AM.
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    Seasoned Pro gufct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    Wouldn't many FD clubs appreciate a bigger division? More diversity in opponents, 8 more games a season.

    Edit: Obviously, I'm sure they'd like it to be accomplished by getting more clubs into the LOI but within the confines of the 20 teams we have this is the only way to increase the size of the FD.

    You must be living in La La Land!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Would have thought they'd all be in favour of a 12-team Premier so they can get out of the First Division myself.

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    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Yeah, and at least the playoffs are relatively reachable. Whereas the sudden change and scrapping of playoffs leaves any club without a realistic chance of winning the division facing a lost season. Very hard to sell anything related to a club when there isn't even a distant shout of promotion.

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  21. #58
    Seasoned Pro bluewhitearmy's Avatar
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    All this talk of regionalised first division and all of this does my head in is there actually anything at all to suggest any club not currently in the LOI would be in any way more interested if that happened? The big plan is to get rid of the graveyard to be replaced by regional graveyards.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    But why can't the MSL/LSL/USL be the regional First Divisions?

    Limerick get relegated from the Premier - into the MSL.

    Tralee win the MSL and - licence permitting - they're promoted to the Premier.

    Why can't that work? (Leaving out politics; if the FAI can't sort that, we may all go home)

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    Seasoned Pro bluewhitearmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    But why can't the MSL/LSL/USL be the regional First Divisions?

    Limerick get relegated from the Premier - into the MSL.

    Tralee win the MSL and - licence permitting - they're promoted to the Premier.

    Why can't that work? (Leaving out politics; if the FAI can't sort that, we may all go home)
    Have any of the MSL LSL USL teams ever shown any interest in being part of the LOI? Have any of them actually got the facilities to ever step up or are we happy to just have the look of an open league when it isn't in reality? Would any of them have any kind of fan base?

    The MSL is entirely teams from Cork I think at this stage not exactly ideal is it? How in any way would playing Avondale one week Douglas Hall the next be any better for a teams survival hopes than the current first division other than saving on travel?

    It's fine asking why wouldn't it work but I haven't seen many asking how would it actually help anything?

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