Fenlon calls for league summit

[legendz]

It's only something like the top 3 from a European U21 championship that qualify for the Olympics.

[The Donie Forde]

If that's the qualifiers for the 88 Olympics you're talking about, I think Jim McLaughlin was the manager?

[Dodge]

People may remember an Irish Olympic qualifying squad that was made up of loi players. One game against Hungary attracted a large crowd to Milltown; Noel King would have been on the team. I thing the crowds decline after that game, won 4-0?, and not sure if the idea only lasted one qualifying campaign. What are the rules for Olympics now, u-23 but did Beckham play in the last one. Anyone know the manager of that Irish team; Liam Touhy?

Definitely 1988 Olympics and Jim McLaughlin was the manager.

Ireland's results
h v Hungary 1-2 (Mick Byrne) - Milltown
h v Spain 2-2 (Mick Byrne, Noel Larkin)
a v Sweden 0-1
a v France 1-1 (Noel Larkin)
h v Sweden 0-1
h v France 3-0 (Mick Bennett 2, Peter Eccles)
a v Hungary 1-4 (Dave Barry)
a v Spain 2-2 (Noel Larkin, Barry Kehoe)

Games played over 86/87 and 87/88 seasons. We finished 4th in the group and Sweden qualified

After that, UEFA changed the qualifiers to the European Under 21 championships. We haven't done well...

[legendz]

What we need to do is to hire expensive consultants to study how Irish football can be improved. They can prepare a report and present their recommendations to the FAI for them to implement. Don't see why that wouldn't work. Give it some kind of biblical title.

Is http://foot.ie/inc/pdf/genesis.pdf the bible that you speak of?!!

The 10 team Premier didn't last for long - only 3 years, '09 - '11.
The Regional League was implemented at a third tier level and only lasted 4 years '08 - '11.

When you look back on LoI 2008:
12 Premier clubs
10 First Division clubs
16 A Championship clubs

2009
10 - Premier
12 - First
18 - A league

2010
10 - Premier
12 - First
18 - A league

2011
10 - Premier
11 - First
16 - A league (Castlebar and Tullamore had pulled out upon hearing the third tier was to be scrapped.)

2012 onwards
12 - Premier
8 - First

The league has regressed a bit since the third tier was scrapped. It seemed a level which needed to be allowed to bed in. It could only have become established over time. There's no overnight success. It's something that will have to be looked at again at some stage. Isn't it well that the low leagues of the likes of Northern Ireland and Wales have Premier Divisions of 12 and then something like 30 clubs in the next two divisions below.

[disgruntled]

Huge mistake getting rid of the A championship before it had time to settle in.
Put the A league back in & regionalise it so that clubs aren't skint because of travelling expenses.
Give incentives to clubs to enter the A championship.
I'm sure Delaneys expenses would pay for it.

Anyone who was in Oriel Park last Friday night for the League decider would have seen exactly some of the problems facing clubs.
Looks like Dundalk spent all their money on players because they had an outstanding squad but no facilities.
The way the away fans were treated was unpleasant to say the least.

[Mr A]

Moved the ground development stuff into the Stadium Update thread as it seems to fit better there. http://foot.ie/threads/43132-Stadium...ubs%29/page168

[legendz]

Huge mistake getting rid of the A championship before it had time to settle in.
Put the A league back in & regionalise it so that clubs aren't skint because of travelling expenses.
Give incentives to clubs to enter the A championship.
I'm sure Delaneys expenses would pay for it.

Massive mistake to scrap the third tier. Here's the list of First Divsion clubs that participated in the A Championship:
2008: Limerick
2009: Finn Harps, Sporting Fingal.
2010: Finn Harps, Shelbourne, Limerick.
2011: Finn Harps, Limerick.

In 2010 the number had increased to 3. Interest went down in 2011 with news the third tier was to be scrapped. With 3 First Division clubs participating without obligation to do so, one would imagine about 5 clubs in the Premier division. The number of first teams was about 4; Tralee, Carlow, Castlebar and Tullamore. The A Championship could have got by with 12 teams split into 2 groups playing 4 series. That would have been a 20 game season. It should have been the basis from which to build the third tier. People said an 8 team First Division over 4 series was not the way to go but they've had no choice but to go with that.

[oriel]

Definitely 1988 Olympics and Jim McLaughlin was the manager.

Ireland's results
h v Hungary 1-2 (Mick Byrne) - Milltown
h v Spain 2-2 (Mick Byrne, Noel Larkin)
a v Sweden 0-1
a v France 1-1 (Noel Larkin)
h v Sweden 0-1
h v France 3-0 (Mick Bennett 2, Peter Eccles)
a v Hungary 1-4 (Dave Barry)
a v Spain 2-2 (Noel Larkin, Barry Kehoe)

Games played over 86/87 and 87/88 seasons. We finished 4th in the group and Sweden qualified

After that, UEFA changed the qualifiers to the European Under 21 championships. We haven't done well...

This is mad, I was only taking about these games that were played in Milltown at the Dundalk match last Friday as an old school teacher who took me was there and he was sitting with Jim McL after the match. Poor old Jim didn't have much memory of the games, but I did. It was some side, 7 rovers, 3 from us, Alan O'Neill, Gino Lawless and Barry Kehoe, with Mick Bennett (Waterford) as the starting xi for most games. Dave Barry also played and a Derry central defender (sweeper) who's name escapes me.

Same of these matches were brilliant, very good crowds too I remember, definitely over 5k at some.

[legendz]

The U19 league has 3 outside of the LoI community - Letterkenny Rovers, Mervue United and Salthill Devon. The two Galway clubs of course have exited the LoI for Galway FC's arrival.

The clubs that flirted with the LoI in the A Championship - Tralee, Castlebar, Fanad, Carlow and Tullamore are no where to be seen. Have they been so scarred by the plug being pulled on the third tier that they are gone for good?

We're into the fourth season of the U19 league. Has it been a success? It's around nearly as long as the defunct A Championship at this stage. It does not seem to have encouraged A Championship clubs to get involved. How are the majority of clubs coping without a level for players out of the U19s? Any league summit should be looking at issues like these. There's a thread doing the rounds on the "Expressions of interest in joining the league" a thread on the lack of interest in joining the league might be more appropriate!

Dundalk FC Youth Development Officer Martin Connolly comments on the U19 league coming in place of the A Championship (August 2011):
Jury out
“The U19 League takes over from the A-Championship and the U20s,” Connolly continued. “The A-Championship is over around the end of August and the U19 League will kick in straight away then. The jury is very much out on this. The first year is going to tell a tale. You have the people that say it’s good to get the players younger playing in a competitive league. But the problem now is that there is not going to be a Reserve League. For your first team that need to get players back after injuries, suspensions or want to try players out, where do you go if they’re over 19? I was at the seminar in the Aviva Stadium a number of weeks ago and it was asked if there were any steps to go back to the U21 League (where you could play three overage players) or at some stage have a Reserve League. And as Fran Gavin quite emphatically said, ‘this is the only show in town’.

UEFA model
“This is being driven by the FAI,” Martin added, “by Wim Koevermans, who is the FAI High Performance Director, Fran Gavin, the Airtricity League Director, and a number of people that say this a model that has been put forward by UEFA all around Europe, and they want to give it a go. I think we need to give it a real pop, which we’re going to do this year and see where it takes us then.” Connolly is unsure about the move, which means at the end of the U19 season an overage player would only be able to play with the first team. “That’s the problem that we have,” he said. “If at the end of the U19 League, a young guy looks to have potential but he’s just not ready to go into the first-team squad, what do you do with him?

John Delaney on Meath (July 2010):
Regarding the possibility of a team from Meath competing in the League of Ireland, the chief executive had very clearly defined ideas on the matter.

"I would like to see it happen, but it would have to be supported from within the county by all the clubs.

"Tralee Dynamos in Kerry play in the A Championship and it's important for the FAI to get a good geographical spread.

"I have no doubt that there are good footballers in Meath and the one way that I think it would work would be if it was done as county Meath team.

"It's probably something that would have to be discussed amongst the clubs within the MDL with a view to getting everyone in the county behind the team.

"Initially, perhaps, Meath could play in a one-off competition as a representative team, but not in a league-style format where the team would be in action on a weekly basis.

"That's all down to the FIFA rulebook at the moment," he concluded.

[El-Pietro]

The U19 system has been clearly successful for Cork City (double double and the third league title aside)

Alan Browne and Brian Lenihan came through the U19 system (Browne more so than Lenny) and were sold for non negligible fees.

Other than Lenihan our first team in 2013/14 contained Garry Buckley, John Kavanagh, Rob Lehane and Danny Morrissey who had varying levels of success over those seasons. Darren A. Murphy looks like he will be the next one to make the step up now that he has had a full season training with the first team.

We have several other young players who we are excited about and who may make the step up in the years to come, or be sold before they make the first team similar to Alan Browne was).

Our problem still remains with the gap between the U19s and the First team. It's a really big step up and it's taking the best players 2-3 seasons to establish themselves, it feels like several very good performers fall through the cracks at that point but thats anecdotal, perhaps even with an extra step they wouldn't make the step up but even still Darren Murphy has had very little football this year and that has to be stunting his progress.

[nigel-harps1954]

Would love to see the A Championship re-introduced. This time, however, it'd be better off as an under-23 league for the league clubs reserve teams as well as a third tier for intermediate clubs looking to make the step up.

It's never going to happen though.

[Sean South]

At 23 if you aren't playing first team football there is a good chance you won't make it in the league of Ireland. Under 19s is better for developing players.

[Dodge]

At 23 if you aren't playing first team football there is a good chance you won't make it in the league of Ireland. Under 19s is better for developing players.

Spot on. There might be the odd exception but anyone who isn't a LOI regular by age 23 isn't ever going to be

[El-Pietro]

Good Old (literally) Mark O'Sullivan refusing to conform to paradigms as usual.

[legendz]

Dundalk FC Youth Development Officer Martin Connolly - I was at the seminar in the Aviva Stadium a number of weeks ago and it was asked if there were any steps to go back to the U21 League (where you could play three overage players) or at some stage have a Reserve League. And as Fran Gavin quite emphatically said, ‘this is the only show in town’.

Would love to see the A Championship re-introduced. This time, however, it'd be better off as an under-23 league for the league clubs reserve teams as well as a third tier for intermediate clubs looking to make the step up.

It's never going to happen though.

At 23 if you aren't playing first team football there is a good chance you won't make it in the league of Ireland. Under 19s is better for developing players.

Spot on. There might be the odd exception but anyone who isn't a LOI regular by age 23 isn't ever going to be

From all the comments above from those within the LoI community, an U21 league with three overage players appears the best option. For this to happen, it will need to be driven by the clubs. Hopefully the likes of Dundalk and Cork will push for such a league in the next few years. The implementation of the U19 model is understandable but should not mean the exclusion of an underage league between it and senior level. It's the sort of level that should suit some third level institutions as well even if they do not seek becoming part of the League of Ireland.

[disgruntled]

From all the comments above from those within the LoI community, an U21 league with three overage players appears the best option. For this to happen, it will need to be driven by the clubs. Hopefully the likes of Dundalk and Cork will push for such a league in the next few years. The implementation of the U19 model is understandable but should not mean the exclusion of an underage league between it and senior level. It's the sort of level that should suit some third level institutions as well even if they do not seek becoming part of the League of Ireland.

This is the way it should go I think.
It would give players out of U19's a place to develop their skills & the three over age players would give them extra time to make it to senior level.
The overage would also give players returning from injury some game time to aid recovery.

One thing however is that money must be invested in the system to aid clubs who want to enter but because of financial restraints are unable to do so.
Its no good just forming a league & expect the clubs to bear all the financial burden of entering & running teams.
Doing it at a regional level would also lessen the financial burden caused by travel expenses.

However none of this is likely to happen because the myriad of local leagues will block it at every level

[nigel-harps1954]

At 23 if you aren't playing first team football there is a good chance you won't make it in the league of Ireland. Under 19s is better for developing players.

Spot on. There might be the odd exception but anyone who isn't a LOI regular by age 23 isn't ever going to be

Apologies for being blunt, but that's pure and utter drivel.

[Dodge]

Apologies for being blunt, but that's pure and utter drivel.

Go on then. Name quality LOI players who weren't playing regularly at the age of 23

[El-Pietro]

2014 Team of the Year Member Mark O'Sullivan

[Longfordian]

In fairness to Dodge he did say there's the odd exception..but if you count the FD (!) Davy O'Sullivan was 25/26 before he played a full season and has 51 goals in his two seasons since.