Setanta Cup 2014

[Charlie Darwin]

To be fair to Linfield they could justifiably say that they pulled out due to sectarianism. They basically got called Orange *******s for 90 minutes against Rovers.
Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!

Linfield gave as good as they got. It's a bit much to claim they were responding to provocation. Rovers supporters call Dundalk orangemen for god's sake. It doesn't stop them from trying to beat us.

[adamd164]

Linfield pulled out cos they're sh*te and aren't used to getting brushed aside. Plus the money guaranteed to teams for entering the competition was slashed.

[redobit]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

[adamd164]

No ambition!

[dundalkfc10]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

Well in fairness this season Cliftonville had Celtic at home in the Champions League and the home leg was live on TV. Im sure they made enough money not too need it. Still disappointing they turned it down

[Ezeikial]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

Sounds like 2 fans talking $hite

[nigel-harps1954]

Both semi final first legs live on Setanta Sports next week.

[Mr_Parker]

I think it was really arrogant of the best two sides in the IL not to compete. I didnt buy their arguments over fixture congestion, not like they are playing mid week and saturday every week, plus it was a trimmed down schedule this season.

The number of fixtures was only one of several issues.

Pragmatic rather then arrogant perhaps.

Modest chances of cup success, dramatically reduced participation money, modest prize money, difficulties getting payments from organisers, small mid week gates, on top of potential fixture congestion - not a lot of reasons left for them to take part, is there?

Yes, all of that.

I disagree, the prize money and profile games would still have been much better for them, compared to their own league, maybe not arrogant but I don't think it was a good move for both Linfield and Cliftonville not to take part.

Travel between games in the IL is nothing compared to LOI, so it's not like they had that to consider, plus they only succeeded in devaluing their own league by not taking part.

Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.

Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!

We played Rovers at 3pm on a free Satuday. Hardly evidence of a lame excuse.

There probably are some additional, related reasons - mainly financial. With poor gates receipts and high travel costs there remained no financial benefit if winning the competition was not possible.

Fixture congestion and possible injuries then became the straw that breaks the camels back.

Linfield specifically referenced the finances and fixture congestion issues in their statement at the time of withdrawing


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25307928

The organising committeee (dominated by the FAI) certainly did not endear themselves to Irish League clubs in general and Cliftonville in particular by their foot dragging over paying participation money in the past

Foot dragging? More like a slow crawl backwards!

[PartySaint]

The number of fixtures was only one of several issues.



Yes, all of that.

Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.



We played Rovers at 3pm on a free Satuday. Hardly evidence of a lame excuse.



Foot dragging? More like a slow crawl backwards!

As a fan Mr Parker, would you have liked to see Cliftonville take part in the competition?

[Charlie Darwin]

Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.

How much could it possibly cost to drive an hour and a half down the M1 on a Monday evening? Ballinamallard's chairman said the costs involved were negligible. If the money wasn't big enough, just say so, but don't be claiming it's some sort of burden for a football team to be playing football matches.

[oriel]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue. Also taking into account that the total for IL Prem from Danske Bank for their first season was only £80k (stg) this is not for the winners, this was the total prize pot, it's not like the domestic scene is well funded.

As for travel, there is no IL Prem side in Derry, about as far west as you can go, none in Newry as far south, although Warrenpoint are playing matches between their home and Dungannon, so the majority of other travel for games must be within a 50 mile radius.

Excuses excuses.

[Dodge]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue.

€4,500 isn't that much revenue at all. Look at the crowds the IL teams have gotten this year. They could all be losing money opening up their grounds for the home games. Add in costs of the away game and other costs associated with the Setanta (everything from programmes to squad numbers etc) and it's not just a question of revenue

It's a question of is the revenue enough to justify all the hassle, when the maximum they'll receive is €4,500 (as LOI sides expect to reach final).

Linfield/Cliftonville think no, the rest think yes. I don't agree with them pulling out but at the very least can understand their POV

[ger121]

That's incredible the total prize fund for the IL is £80k and I thought what the FAI was offering was rubbish!

[oriel]

£80K stg was the total figure that Dankse Bank put in 2 years ago to match what Carling had contributed, so unless its gone up significantly in one season, I would agree its a very modest figure.

Linfield get a payment from IFA for the use of Windsor (much to the annoyance of the rest) and a lot of clubs especially the Belfast ones have thriving social clubs that contribute to the football clubs, but the overall the sponsorhip payment does sound very low.

It was a real shame that Linfield and Cliftonville didnt take part, and I wonder will they re-consider this for next season, if they dont the chances of another all LOI semi final would be high, and I cant see Setanta increasing the sponsorship, so the chances are they wont take part.

I take Dodge's point above though.

[adamd164]

It was a real shame that Linfield and Cliftonville didnt take part, and I wonder will they re-consider this for next season, if they dont the chances of another all LOI semi final would be high

I'd say the chances are high regardless TBH. Both of those teams got handsomely thumped last year before the semis.

We had a very average team and beat Cliftonville 6-2 on aggregate.

[Mr_Parker]

As a fan Mr Parker, would you have liked to see Cliftonville take part in the competition?

Yes, but not at risk to our title challenge, which it was.

[Mr_Parker]

How much could it possibly cost to drive an hour and a half down the M1 on a Monday evening? Ballinamallard's chairman said the costs involved were negligible. If the money wasn't big enough, just say so, but don't be claiming it's some sort of burden for a football team to be playing football matches.

Ballinamallard would have a very small wage cost, so it would cost them relatively little to have them play an extra match or two. Also, I'm not sure what their players do for a living, but were they forced to use up holidays to make the away match? Did they do this as a one of gesture? Cliftonville have been playing football since mid July and there are only so many occasions when you can ask favours from employers without have to fork out compensation. The money on offer, 4,500 euro, Would hardly cover the additional wages, bonuses and expenses. Also as has been seen, these games do not attract any significant support which would help offset the costs.

However, our focus was/is on winning our league. The risk on our players was not worth it imo.

[Mr_Parker]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue. Also taking into account that the total for IL Prem from Danske Bank for their first season was only £80k (stg) this is not for the winners, this was the total prize pot, it's not like the domestic scene is well funded.

As for travel, there is no IL Prem side in Derry, about as far west as you can go, none in Newry as far south, although Warrenpoint are playing matches between their home and Dungannon, so the majority of other travel for games must be within a 50 mile radius.

Excuses excuses.

By "revenue" I take it you mean turnover. 4,500 hardly would cover the wages for at least 2 extra games, plus all the other expenses. As for the 80k you mention, add on how much the European pot is worth for winning the league.

[Mr_Parker]

I'd say the chances are high regardless TBH. Both of those teams got handsomely thumped last year before the semis.

We had a very average team and beat Cliftonville 6-2 on aggregate.

You do realise we played our reserves!

[Charlie Darwin]

Ballinamallard would have a very small wage cost, so it would cost them relatively little to have them play an extra match or two. Also, I'm not sure what their players do for a living, but were they forced to use up holidays to make the away match? Did they do this as a one of gesture? Cliftonville have been playing football since mid July and there are only so many occasions when you can ask favours from employers without have to fork out compensation. The money on offer, 4,500 euro, Would hardly cover the additional wages, bonuses and expenses. Also as has been seen, these games do not attract any significant support which would help offset the costs.

However, our focus was/is on winning our league. The risk on our players was not worth it imo.

I'd imagine their players made the same arrangements as part-time players at League of Ireland clubs made. And are you actually saying that Cliftonville pay their players per game?