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Thread: Discussion on a United or re-partitioned Ireland

  1. #361
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    Why would you want a crown, a Zionist star and two red hands on Any fleg FFS?

    And as Bonnie says why no Saltire?

    As for the Tricolour, apparently it already offends too many unionists.
    Maybe it's just too orange?

  2. #362
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    I'm merely saving an army of expensive designers the trouble of producing something that people can't agree on. As you know, a horse designed by committee would be...a camel

    If there's no need for change, why don't you prefer to stick with the tric?
    Where did I say change? More goalposts being moved.

    I would gladly keep the trickler but would also accept the Four Provinces or Saltire. I don;t think there's many who would find either offensive in any context. Perhaps some Republicans would get miffed at the saltire. but feck them.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  3. #363
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
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    How have I moved goalposts? I merely anticipated future demand for supposedly all-inclusive symbols and poked gentle fun at it.

    I don't dislike the Saltire symbol, it just looks a bit odd.

  4. #364
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    So why not answer the points made above then?

    And have this feeling the Saltire is not the only odd looking thing on this MB.
    Last edited by Wolfman; 07/04/2017 at 2:08 PM.

  5. #365
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
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    I don't usually answer your posts (and nor does anyone else) because they're almost always moronic, abusive, trolling, or all three. Do us all a favor and fcuk off, there's a good lad.


  6. #366
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    I agree Gather, that's someone who uses Vox as a source, that's all ye need to know. Vox!

  7. #367
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    I don't usually answer your posts (and nor does anyone else) because they're almost always moronic, abusive, trolling, or all three. Do us all a favor and fcuk off, there's a good lad.

    Controversial. The ol' cross hairs appearing in a discussion on NI is rarely a sign of good community relations. Unfortunate.

  8. #368
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    Charming, though clearly the education system has failed in the North on the basis of GR's spelling...
    And clearly doesn't do irony.
    Given their blatant hypocrisy.

  9. #369
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    The Spanish government's prospective veto over any UK-EU deal if it isn't satisfied with Gibraltar's future status also came up in discussion and Flanagan was rightly asked why the Irish government hasn't similarly demanded and secured a veto so as to ensure it will have decisive influence over the post-Brexit status of the north of Ireland.
    The Detail (or someone sounding like Newtown Emerson) outlines an alternative take on the Irish government's negotiating/bargaining position:


  10. #370
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    Four IRA men give their various opinions on the state of play presently in the I.T. today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Times View Post
    The ex-IRA men: ‘United Ireland? It’s all guff’
    A group of paramilitary veterans say Brexit won’t derail the peace process, violence won’t return, and they’ll never see a united Ireland

    Gerry McGeough is a prominent republican and former member of the provisional IRA and now a farmer in Co. Tyrone. He explains to Simon Carswell how Brexit is the best thing ever for Irish nationalists and republicans.
    Link - http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...guff-1.3041131

  11. #371
    Banned TheOneWhoKnocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    Four IRA men give their various opinions on the state of play presently in the I.T. today.



    Link - http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...guff-1.3041131
    I read that earlier. Thought-provoking stuff.

  12. #372
    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    My own effort. Nods to the Trickler, Union Fleg, and using the same design as South Africa will give the Shinners the chance to remind everyone how they were mates with Nelson Mandela which should get them on board.

    fleg2.png
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

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  14. #373
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    I just came across the highly-rated Bobby Sands: 66 Days documentary on YouTube:



    It's sure to be of interest to a few of yous.

  15. #374
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    I see the same YouTube user who uploaded 66 Days has also uploaded Voices from the Grave (along with numerous other documentaries covering politics and conflict in the north):



    Voices from the Grave is very insightful and well worth a watch. It is based primarily on the "Boston tapes" interviews (overseen by journalist Ed Moloney) with former-IRA volunteer Brendan Hughes and ex-UVF volunteer and PUP leader David Ervine conducted before they died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Moloney
    Voices from the Grave tells the story of the Northern Ireland Troubles through the unflinching testimony of two men who were on opposite sides of that bloody conflict, the IRA’s Brendan Hughes and the UVF’s David Ervine. Nearly ten years ago they talked to researchers from Boston College with the understanding that the interviews would be not be made public unless the interviewees either gave permission or died. Hughes and Ervine are both dead and this documentary tells the story of their wars in their own voices.

    The stories of Brendan Hughes and David Ervine span the Northern Ireland Troubles. They talk about their motivations for joining the conflict, the daily planning of campaigns of violence, the close calls with death, the guilt and regret that come from violence and killing, the despair of hunger strikes, and the deadly hunt for spies and informers. It is also a story of betrayal and duplicity and the fate of combatants once their wars are over.

    Voices from the Grave is directed by Kate O’Callaghan and Patrick Farrelly and written by Ed Moloney and Patrick Farrelly, based on the book by Ed Moloney. Made with the support of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and Radio Telefis Eireann. First broadcast on RTE1 on October 26, 2010.
    From IMDB:

    Quote Originally Posted by IMDB
    The story of the Northern Ireland Troubles through the unflinching testimony of two men who played key roles on opposite sides of that bloody conflict. Nearly ten years ago the two paramilitary leaders told their stories on condition that they could never be revealed while they were still alive. The stories told by the Irish Republican Army's Brendan Hughes and Ulster Volunteer Force's David Ervine tell us of the motivations of the participants, the planning of campaigns of violence, the misery of a hunger strike, the tracking and killing of informers and the duplicity that ended a conflict that had lasted too long. It is also a narrative of the fate of combatants when their wars are over.

  16. #375
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    A really refreshing and progressive approach to the question of possible Irish unity outlined by unionist/loyalist Sophie Long (who recently left the PUP after provoking controversy within the loyalist community upon tweeting condolences to the "family, friends and comrades" of Martin McGuinness) on BBC Radio Ulster's Talkback programme this afternoon as she urged fellow unionists to start preparing for what she now regards as a "slightly more likely" united Ireland and to start outlining what sort of settlement or arrangement would be most palatable for them. Listen here from 7m50s: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08ljfn9

    She admits that, given the recent electoral blow dealt to unionism, rather than battening down the hatches, unionists need to look outward and must strategise in preparation for what will be a "unionist apocalypse". Long refers to herself as a "pragmatic unionist" and describes her approach as a "contingency plan" or "insurance policy"; essentially, to paraphrase, she's saying that if unionists plan for unity, they can at least have a seat at the table and will have their voices heard so as to help ensure they won't be absorbed into a political territory that they had no role in shaping. I would very much welcome such dialogue, debate and discussion. A united Ireland will be one of compromise, and that's something a lot of nationalists and republicans will have to come to terms with too if we're to realise it.

    For what it's worth, here are some recent tweets from Long on the matter:

    A forward-looking Unionism could and should outline its vision of a United Ireland inc links to UK and Commonwealth, minority rights etc.
    Refusing to acknowledge demographic shifts and the impact of Brexit is not political strategy or principledness. Its a lack of vision.
    "Never, never, never" worked so well last time. What could possibly go wrong?
    Alternatively, there's always non-territorial autonomy. Plenty of political options for Unionists to avail of. None of which are saying "No"
    We aren't in 1913 and won't see a cross-class alliance of militant Unionists. Any solutions must be political, non-violent and creative.
    Even pockets of organised violence will be quickly stymied. In a post 9/11 security setting no major operations will be successful.

  17. #376
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    'Roadmap to a united Ireland revealed in new report by leading Irish politicians': http://www.irishcentral.com/news/pol...sh-politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila Langan
    The Joint Committee of the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement appointed Senator Mark Daly to compile a report on the effect of Brexit on Ireland, what Ireland should seek to have in the final agreement between the EU and the UK, particularly in the event of the people of Northern Ireland voting for a United Ireland, and what Ireland needs to do in order to peacefully achieve its constitutional obligation, as outlined in Article 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution, which stipulate that a majority vote can be used to trigger a referendum on a united Ireland.

    ...

    At 1,132 pages, the report delves into the impact of Brexit on the question of a united Ireland, historic precedents for such a unification (such as that seen in Germany), the current economic climate and potential financial implications of a united Ireland, how a post-Brexit Ireland could be united in peace and prosperity, the groundwork laid by the Good Friday Agreement, and the constitutional and legal changes that must be made before a united Ireland is achieved.

    ...

    One of the most compelling points argues that while the United Nations Human development index, which measures health, education, and income levels worldwide, ranks Ireland as sixth in the world alongside Germany, Canada and the United States. By contrast, Northern Ireland ranks 44th, with Hungary and Montenegro, but would drop below 50th post-Brexit, closer to Kazakhstan and Belarus.

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  19. #377
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Times View Post
    Two tribes: A divided Northern Ireland
    A new mapping project illustrates the geographical split between Catholics and Protestants in what is still a deeply divided society -
    The UK’s decision to leave the EU has coincided with a renewed focus on demographic shifts in Northern Ireland. The rapid increase in the Catholic population and the decline of the Protestant majority has been well catalogued. What is less well known outside the North, however, is the extent to which the two communities still live apart after 20 years of the peace process, and how tension between British and Irish identities remains unresolved.
    We explore those issues today and next week in a unique mapping project published in The Irish Times, on irishtimes.com and on Belfast journalism website thedetail.tv. The colour-coded maps, by software engineer and data analyst Dr Mathew Doherty, illustrate how patterns of division have persisted. They use government data from each census held in 1971, 1981, 1991, 2001 and 2011 to show where Protestants (in blue) and Catholics (shown in green) live in Northern Ireland.
    There are many reasons why divisions remain, including the fact that public sector housing estates are deeply divided.

    British and Irish cultural traditions are also reflected across society. The vast majority of Catholic and Protestant children are taught in separate schools, but while the educational divide is often expressed in solely religious terms, schools can reflect the nationalist or unionist identity of communities they serve.
    The data illustrate the degree to which cities and towns remain divided or predominantly populated by one community, and the faultlines in a society still emerging from conflict

    This piece also contains some very interesting graphics of the shifting population trends based on the various census counts since 1971 and their impact on how things might be about to unfold, the main thread is the still largely divided society in housing and education particularly - http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...land-1.3030921
    Last edited by CraftyToePoke; 14/04/2017 at 8:18 PM.

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  21. #378
    Banned TheOneWhoKnocks's Avatar
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    An increase in the number of Protestant immigrants, particularly from Africa and India, has helped to re-energise some parishes, and there has also been an influx of worshippers who grew up as Catholics.

    One parishioner from Lucan estimates his local church-going population as 50pc traditional Church of Ireland, 25pc African or Indian, and 25pc people who were baptised as Catholics.

    "There are a number of people from a Catholic background who feel more comfortable in the Church of Ireland at the moment, but I would not see this as a form of competition," says Patrick Comerford.
    http://www.independent.ie/life/irish...-35621422.html

    This is consistent with the fact there are more Northern Catholics who would rather remain in the union than there are Northern Protestants who desire unification.
    Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 18/04/2017 at 1:41 PM.

  22. #379
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    I'm just hoping that someone can explain to me the supposed connection or "consistency" between a number of Catholics in Lucan converting to Anglicanism and the fact that a higher proportion (37 per cent) of Catholics in the north of Ireland may prefer to maintain a political union with Britain than the proportion (5 per cent) of northern Protestants who'd vote for Irish re-unification.

  23. #380
    Seasoned Pro peadar1987's Avatar
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    Does it make me a bad Irishman if I would welcome a United Ireland more for the opportunity it would bring to tear down and rebuild the rotten political system in the Republic than anything to do with nationalism and territorial integrity?

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