Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections

[Bucky-O'Hare]

http://www.change.org/petitions/depa...-voting-rights

All Irish citizens in Ireland and abroad should have the right to vote in presidential elections. Sign if you wish and share on other forums, facebook, etc.

[peadar1987]

I'm torn on this one. I'm an emigrant, I doubt I'll ever return to Ireland to live. At least not for the next decade or two. I don't really have that much of a stake in who the president is. However, that doesn't mean I don't want to come back, and voting for the right people is one way of trying to make sure the Ireland of 2032 is one I'd like to come back to.

However, "all Irish citizens" is a bit broad, seeing as that would include anyone who has a grandparent who is also an Irish citizen. I would be seriously worried about seven million Irish-Americans trying to start some sort of Tea Party libertarian, or nutty religious-right movement over here with their new-found voting rights.

Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise.

[osarusan]

Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise.

I live in Japan now, and my daughter was born here, but my son was born in Ireland - we moved back here when he was 4 months old (it would have been 2 months except for the tsunami).

Even if neither of them set foot in Ireland again, he'd be entitled to vote but she wouldn't, under your suggestion. I get your point about people outside Ireland having a stake in what it could become, but there will be plenty of people with different ancestry/family/migration situations that could highlight the unfairness of any new voting eligibility criteria.

The current cut-off point for voting rights probably makes the most sense, in my opinion.

Also, you're only an Irish citizen from birth if your granparent was an Irish citizen born in Ireland. Otherwise, the citizenship must be applied for before the birth of the next generation family member - otherwise the chance is lost. I wonder how many of the Irish-Americans you mentioned have actually maintained the citizenship.

[DannyInvincible]

Ideally, the President should represent all members of the Irish nation, be they living on the island of Ireland or living abroad.

Even if neither of them set foot in Ireland again, he'd be entitled to vote but she wouldn't, under your suggestion. I get your point about people outside Ireland having a stake in what it could become, but there will be plenty of people with different ancestry/family/migration situations that could highlight the unfairness of any new voting eligibility criteria.

Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?

[Spudulika]

Irish-born citizens living abroad should be able to vote. Diplomats, military personnel and those serving with the UN (or associated bodies) can, I'm not sure about the yahoos in the EU bodies. I'm loathe to allow Irish citizens from the irish tree voting rights. I saw personally how such a scheme completely and utterly messed up Croatia and the same could happen in Ireland. I have always tried to get home, if even for a day, to vote and would love nothing more than to go to the local Embassy to vote if the chance came. But again, not being born in Ireland, I don't see it as a good idea.

[osarusan]

Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?

There is going to have to be some cut-off point in terms of voting rights, and residency in Ireland seems to me to be a more fair one than birth in Ireland. I don't really see how a birth-related proposal is any improvement in terms of fairness.

[Mr A]

I'm inclined to invoke an old maxim in reverse here- no representation without taxation. I think the current set up is OK, but there should be far more allowance for postal voting. You shouldn't lose your vote because you happen to be away for a day.

[Dodge]

Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?

Are you overstating the importance of the president by introducing the idea of it being fair/unfair?

Don't mind the idea of irish citizens abroad voting for the President. Its pretty much ceremonial so any attempt to 'hijack it' would be pretty pointless. I'd make it anybody with an Irish passport, and like here have a electoral register so they must apply for that vote first.

Don't want voting rights extended to other elections/referenda though

Irish-born citizens living abroad should be able to vote. Diplomats, military personnel and those serving with the UN (or associated bodies) can, I'm not sure about the yahoos in the EU bodies.

If they're serving Irish public servants working on posting/secondment abroad they can. IF they're irish and employed directly by EU, UN, European parliament etc they they're not eligible

[Macy]

I'm torn on this one. I'm an emigrant, I doubt I'll ever return to Ireland to live. At least not for the next decade or two. I don't really have that much of a stake in who the president is. However, that doesn't mean I don't want to come back, and voting for the right people is one way of trying to make sure the Ireland of 2032 is one I'd like to come back to.

President has little impact on what the state is like anyway, but it is important to how we are perceived abroad which can have a positive or negative effect on residents. Would we have got the (imo right) result we got the last time with the extra block? Or would we have McGuinness or even worse the bagman (due to postal votes having already gone)?

Personally, I'd prefer non resident citizens to have a 3 seat seanad constituency. A Dáil constituency has too much potential to hold the balance of power and get undue influence. And by undue influence I mean their constituents don't have to live with the consequences (Mr A's point). Where as in the Seanad they'd have a voice and a chance to initiate debate.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

President has little impact on what the state is like anyway, but it is important to how we are perceived abroad which can have a positive or negative effect on residents. Would we have got the (imo right) result we got the last time with the extra block? Or would we have McGuinness or even worse the bagman (due to postal votes having already gone)?

Personally, I'd prefer non resident citizens to have a 3 seat seanad constituency. A Dáil constituency has too much potential to hold the balance of power and get undue influence. And by undue influence I mean their constituents don't have to live with the consequences (Mr A's point). Where as in the Seanad they'd have a voice and a chance to initiate debate.

In democracy the result is the result. It's wrong to just assume that everyone in the north would automatically vote for ginger Marty. Though a lot probably would have in reaction to the way he was regularly ganged up on. Bizzare I know. I know I would have voted for Michael D.

Sure usually if it's not the right result you's just do it again.

[pineapple stu]

In democracy the result is the result.

You must be new to Ireland.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

You must be new to Ireland.

Haha, no I'd just like a new Ireland.

[Macy]

Sure usually if it's not the right result you's just do it again.

Don't you mean "we"?

[Bucky-O'Hare]

Don't you mean "we"?

Apologies, I generalised just like you did.

[BonnieShels]

I would like ALL citizens no matter how tenuous their relationship to this country as they are citizens and they should be afforded the right to be able to vote in their Presidential elections.

I would like 1 Dáil seat reserved for, how should I say, non-Free state constituency to voted for by ALL citizens that do not reside in the State.

I would like the Seanad to be reduced in size and have an overseas cohort also.

I don't see why they can't arrange consulates and embassies to be set up as polling stations for the period like Australia and Sweden do. And for postal votes for registered overseas Irish to be forwarded to the nearest embassy.

[Gather round]

I am an Irish citizen and I am part of the Irish Nation regardless of the fact to north is still not free

Feel yer pain Aidan, but don't confuse irritation about the route of the border with freedom. You get to vote for district councillors, fools on the Hill and abstentionist MPs. Hardly a democratic deficit.

Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise

Not everyone born in Ireland being automatically entitled to citizenship might prove a problem?

Ideally, the President should represent all members of the Irish nation, be they living on the island of Ireland or living abroad

Many would disagree that it's ideal, whether because of 'no representation without taxation' thats others mentioned, or that hundreds of thousands who don't identify with the state/ nation could theoretically be involved.

Don't mind the idea of irish citizens abroad voting for the President. Its pretty much ceremonial so any attempt to 'hijack it' would be pretty pointless

You could make it 100% ceremonial (trivial?) if it's 99% already. Just have a phone-in to a premium line hosted by Louis Walsh and Tuathlisa. President Martin Sheen might follow, but would that be such a bad thing?

I'd make it anybody with an Irish passport, and like here have a electoral register so they must apply for that vote first. Don't want voting rights extended to other elections/referenda though

If you're going to charge people €80 (many may not have a current passport, or use one from another state), they might reasonably expect the right to vote in other elections or referenda?

[Eminence Grise]

Frankly, I’d rather we got our house in order at home first before giving votes to millions living overseas. It’s rather pathetic that, despite having seven candidates and a highly public campaign, the presidential election achieved a 56% turnout. Since 1990 turnout has not exceeded 70% of the electorate in any general election.

We need to sort this out before we start looking at overseas voting. What makes us think that Irish citizens are any more likely to vote when they leave the country? If they’re working in Dublin and can’t travel to Roscommon for a Thursday vote (or haven’t gotten round to changing their constituency), are they any more likely to travel halfway across another country to the nearest embassy or legation, or even to a post office to send off their ballot, which they would probably have to apply for in the first case?

Emigrant voting is something of a romanticised notion, but it has far less to commend it than online petitions suggest.

[Gather round]

Frankly, I’d rather we got our house in order at home first...the presidential election achieved a 56% turnout

I'd take a bottom-up approach EG. 56% taking the trouble is encouraging, not disappointing. It's nearly three times the turnout for local councillors in my area, btw.

What makes us think that Irish citizens are any more likely to vote when they leave the country?

Even if nothing, is that relevant? Giving a vote to expats, permanent emigrants, diaspora descendants or even N*rd**s can be justified in its own terms, even if a lot less than 56% of them bother.

[Spudulika]

EG, you've pointed out something that is very pertinent, low voter turnout. I know that as Irish people we love failing traditions - the LOI being one of them - though I have been really aware of the plight of many people (students in particular) who weren't able to vote to a certain degree as they were in Uni in Dublin and couldn't get home and back on a Thursday to vote. Now in saying that, they usually went on the tear Thursday night and didn't go to class on Friday, but that's beside the point. The last 3 general elections were held on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Why can't elections be held on a weekend? Sunday's for example. It's nothing as radical as a single division in the LOI, but it might get more of a vote out.

From my own point of view, the last Presidential election suffered as a result of the nation being rid of candidates and the media dictation as to who was worthy of the retirement home in the Park. Then again I'm cynical.

[Dodge]

You could make it 100% ceremonial (trivial?) if it's 99% already. Just have a phone-in to a premium line hosted by Louis Walsh and Tuathlisa. President Martin Sheen might follow, but would that be such a bad thing?

Pretty much ceremonial I said. Important enough distinction IMO

If you're going to charge people €80 (many may not have a current passport, or use one from another state), they might reasonably expect the right to vote in other elections or referenda?

If "Irish abroad" don't want an irish passport then I don't think they should vote. If they have a passport, and want to vote, I don't see why they can't keep local embassies/consulates aware of their address so they can send them ballots etc. You want the embassies to just send out ballots to anyone?