Match Officials + Impartiality

**nigel-harps1954** · 15/03/2012, 7:32 PM

I've thought about this further...in defence of men everywhere, this is all I can come up with.

**Charlie Darwin** · 15/03/2012, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by marinobohs

I think abusing the ref/lino (be it he or she) is still referable to hitting him in the head with a bottle

Unfortunately the chance to hurl abuse at some poor unfortunate is now as much part of the game as enjoying the football. More often than not it is good fun and adds to the atmosphere. On the occassions where it goes overboard the people around usually deal with it or report the matter to stewards.

Often wonder how much impact such abuse from the crowd would have on a player/official (if any). Dont believe for one second anyone fels "intimidated" by banter - however crude.

Perhaps not players but officials, totally. Have you never seen a referee swayed by a hostile crowd? A lot of chants in football are banter but many aren't, and even if it is banter it's not necessarily interpreted that way.

Originally Posted by osarusan

Of all the women who were in the ground at the time (be it a few dozen or a few hundred), how many others were abused? I'd go for none. Are you arguing that the fact that she was a match official had nothing to do the fact that she was getting abuse?
I think that to describe it as discrimination on the basis of their gender is to mis-represent the situation.

Match officials get abuse. If they're bald, they get abuse for that. If they're short, they get abuse for that. If they're women, they get abuse for that. It's all equally wrong.

No, obviously she was getting abuse because she was a match official, but the nature of the abuse was based on her gender. It's not just officials who get comments - I'd say a lot of us have seen female stewards get lewd comments too.

**sadloserkid** · 16/03/2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd say a lot of us have seen female stewards get lewd comments too.

Let's not forget the physios.

**micls** · 16/03/2012, 2:23 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

And at that game, he sent a Rovers player off. He gave it half an hour before deciding to even up the teams.

As for Kelly, I remember him reffing a Cork-Drogheda game in Cork in the Setanta Cup. Cork were struggling to hold on to a narrow lead so with 15 minutes left, he sent an away player off. He enjoyed it so much that he sent another one off 3 minutes later. Cork duly took advantage within minutes and won the game. Not too many complaints then.

So the players didn't deserve to be sent off? Which game was this, can't remember off the top of my head. What year?

There's complaints about Alan Kelly pretty much every time he refs ours games (although I'd imagine that's not unique to us). He has never shown any sort of favoritism in games I've been at and has regularly been accused of the opposite.

I don't think it matters a tap who refs tonight tbh unless he's gonna play in central mid for us.

I do think it would make more sense to avoid this situation though for the refs, clubs and the league

**gormacha** · 16/03/2012, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by micls

I don't think it matters a tap who refs tonight tbh unless he's gonna play in central mid for us.

Arf! I think we have a winner for post of the day, and it only 9 o'clock and not a child in the house washed.

**gormacha** · 16/03/2012, 8:08 AM

I'm out of this debate after this*, but just wanted to say that although I'm not that surprised, there's still a bit of me finds it hard to believe that some people can't see how shouting unnecessary unpleasant things at women - by a bunch of men - is ok in any circumstances. I wuold have thought that our default position would be to assume they won't like it, rather than "they can take it"; or "they'll have to take it if they want to take part" or "they'd say something if it was bothering them" or whatever.

From The FCF on the nastier sort of "banter": http://thefcf.co.uk/2012/03/01/stop-banter/14866/

"“Banter” is increasingly being used as a cloak for the resurgence of all manner of irrational bile. Though briefly cowed by the “forces of political correctness”, that devastating and irrational conspiracy devoted to the heretical notion that perhaps it isn’t okay to be an unspeakable phuqwit to foreigners, women, gays, and anybody else that can be frantically found to answer for your own shuddering inadequacy..."

*Not true.

**osarusan** · 16/03/2012, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No, obviously she was getting abuse because she was a match official, but the nature of the abuse was based on her gender.

So you've finally come round to my way of thinking:

Originally Posted by osarusan

I wasn't at the match, but I think it is far more likely that she was being shouted at because she was the referee. I'd guess that her gender influenced the kind of abuse she got, rather than being the sole reason she was getting abuse.

**A face** · 16/03/2012, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

So you've finally come round to my way of thinking:

So its ok to do it so, is that what you're saying?

**osarusan** · 16/03/2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by A face

So its ok to do it so, is that what you're saying?

No A Face, that's not what I'm saying, and it's pathetic that you haven't bothered to read the thread before your ignorant post.

**gormacha** · 16/03/2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

I wasn't at the match, but I think it is far more likely that she was being shouted at because she was the referee. I'd guess that her gender influenced the kind of abuse she got, rather than being the sole reason she was getting abuse.

I don't see how that's relevant, even if its true, which I'm not conceding.

The point is that a woman, already in a tiny minority in the football environment she is in, is taking abuse based on her gender. Gendered abuse has a long history, so it carries a weight that the "normal" abuse meted out to men at football doesn't carry. Gendered abuse is not dissimilar to racist abuse in that sense. And the fact that some of the abuse aimed at women clearly has a sexual content makes it all the worse.

Your point seems to be "everyone gets abuse, and all forms of abuse are equally wrong". That's a point of view, but I don't agree. Some forms of abuse are worse than others.

**peadar1987** · 16/03/2012, 7:23 PM

Nice bit of impartial play by the linesman in Cork just there!

**dfx-** · 16/03/2012, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by dfx-

Time to bet on a Cork penalty or Rovers red card...

..Woo!

**askmehoop** · 16/03/2012, 8:05 PM

that red card blew any suggestion of a Bias ref out of the water

**micls** · 16/03/2012, 8:11 PM

I thought he had a very good game apart from the sending off.

The sending off I'm not sure about, it certainly looked harsh from some of the replays, but they're were one or two angles where it looked very dangerous so I can see how the decision was made.

**nigel-harps1954** · 17/03/2012, 2:09 AM

How convenient that there was a female Linesperson in Athlone tonight...I gave her so much abuse just for being a woman. It was great craic.

**littlebray** · 17/03/2012, 2:22 AM

OMG! Criticism on the basis of decisions made?

Fans will always disagree with officials, rightly or (sometimes) wrongly.

Haranguing the officials for their decisions has been a tradition in football since referees were invented (referees in football are first described by Richard Mulcaster in 1581. In his description of "foteball" he advocates the use of a "judge over the parties").

His idea was so good it took nearly 300 years before it was implemented, for a match in 1842.

Fourth Officials are the only ones who (almost) never get taunts, jibes or sneers. If/when the end-linesmen are finally properly introduced, they too will be abused.

The only officials who will ever be immune will be the electronic review officials - the TV umpire/video Official, whatever they will call them, who are never seen.

Is Mark Gavin shorter than Martin Moloney - or is that an offensive question?

**peadar1987** · 17/03/2012, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by littlebray

Fourth Officials are the only ones who (almost) never get taunts, jibes or sneers. If/when the end-linesmen are finally properly introduced, they too will be abused.

I was at the Europe League game between Stoke and Valencia, and the Danish official behind the goal was wearing full-length leggings under his shorts. I don't think the poor lad will ever be the same!

**nigel-harps1954** · 17/03/2012, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by littlebray

Fourth Officials are the only ones who (almost) never get taunts, jibes or sneers. If/when the end-linesmen are finally properly introduced, they too will be abused.

Ever been to Finn Park?