Wishful thinking of a Second Division

[nigel-harps1954]

Ulster senior League needs Cavan and Monaghan clubs to join
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The Ulster Cup has teams from those counties in but I don't think they want to join the Ulster Senior League.

Putting in Fanad when Finn Harps were struggling and trying to get the support of Donegal was a joke.

Fanad applied themselves. They weren't asked. It was either them or Letterkenny Rovers, and Rovers aren't liked in the league circles. It would be even worse if Rovers got in with Harps 15 minutes up the road. Fanad have their own support, who wouldn't follow Harps anyway.

[eitoof]

Just FYI, Tullamore have zero interest in LOI at the moment.

[peadar1987]

I think turning away clubs purely because of their proximity to an existing LOI club is just going to breed resentment in junior football. Clubs should be accepted or refused on their merit and adherence to licensing requirements, not on geographical location.

[nigel-harps1954]

I think turning away clubs purely because of their proximity to an existing LOI club is just going to breed resentment in junior football. Clubs should be accepted or refused on their merit and adherence to licensing requirements, not on geographical location.

Harps take a good brunt of their support from Letterkenny. A town of 18,000 people just down the road is very important for Harps development. It would ruin the club if Letterkenny Rovers got in.

[culloty82]

I don't think it would make much difference in an intermediate league though, where you could have Fanad v Letterkenny or Tralee v Killarney derbies. As Peadar says, for his gateway set-up to be practical, you would need a number of "filler" teams, who wouldn't be looking for full League status.

[legendz]

The best chance of an intermediate league taking off could be 3 regions of 8 or 10 club in each. The three regions would be roughly south-west, east and north-west sections. In terms of relegation/promotion, possibly a group of 4 involving the last team in the first division and the 3 region champions, with one off games in neutral venues on a Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday, with the group winner either retaining or earning first division status?

[kerrysock]

We are a small country, and we are in the deepest recession in the history of the state.
We will contract to a single division next year, from 3 divisions last year and rightfully so in my view.

We already have junior and intermediate leagues and I think a 3rd tier is a waste of time.

What I do think is required is a defined entry mechanism into the LOI, but this has to be purely financially based unfortunately.
I think an entity e.g. club or something like mayo and kerry league should be allowed to apply for the LOI each year.
If finances add up and support base is big enough and passes "tough" licensing measures, then they should be given an LOI license.

[Shannonsider]

What I do think is required is a defined entry mechanism into the LOI, but this has to be purely financially based unfortunately.
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Agreed. The FAI are getting slated this year for not letting Cobh and/or Tralee into the league but it would be worse off if they let these clubs into the league, they go bust trying to just survive in the First Divison and these clubs who could have grown naturally over the next few seasons are gone forever.

[citybone]

Agreed. The FAI are getting slated this year for not letting Cobh and/or Tralee into the league but it would be worse off if they let these clubs into the league, they go bust trying to just survive in the First Divison and these clubs who could have grown naturally over the next few seasons are gone forever.

But they have given them no other option. Also a ametuer club in the 1st division would not have too many bills, Ref's fee, Travel costs, Floodlights (if they have/use them) cant be too many more.

[sadloserkid]

Tullamore and Castlebar both dropped out of the A Championship before this season because they didn't see themselves making the switch to a fully national second tier. I don't think you can just include them in your mythical division which would require more travel than they had previously (I presume you excluded Fanad for that very reason?) and lacks the appeal of even middleweights like Limerick and Waterford to add a very, very thin veneer of glamour. So realistically you've listed four groups with recently stated desires to play senior football? Now that's just not viable. There are only 6 teams in the Women's national league alright and that seems to be functioning but it's hardly been a raging success either (though I believe Limerick's ladies team are in discussions about stepping up next year).

I would love to see a third tier in this country (indeed, I'd love a fourth, fifth and everything down to a twenty-fifth tier!). The A Championship should have been kept but that it wasn't is every bit as much the fault of the clubs who moaned and cribbed about having to provide a team for it as it is that of the FAI (to say nothing of the countless clubs who could very easily have applied to join but didn't bother). Cobh and Tralee should both have been allowed into the First Division had they secured licenses. The FAI should be bending over backwards to aid and facilitate clubs such as these who desire to step up. Sadly, not enough clubs in this country have shown a desire to do this and until that mentality changes we're unlikely to see much development in the structures. It's a new sensation to be agreeing with Kerrysock but in the current economic climate the league, just like everything else is more likely to contract than expand. Quite honestly it does look more likely that more clubs will be cut adrift in future than that we'll be welcoming newcomers and visiting new grounds.

Also, Shannonsider, Mervue also stepped up from the A Championship (arguably with a little more success than Salthill). So did Fingal technically though that doesn't help my argument much.

[legendz]

I read local articles where Tullamore and Castlebar sited the A Championship ending and uncertaint being the reason they opted out of the last season. I included them in the mythical division as I felt it would be same finances as the A Championship and could cope if they were interested. Someone in the know has clarified Tullamore have no interest in the League of Ireland at this time. Yes, I excluded Fanad due to travel. Felt it would be more or less the same for the rest, making the finance effectively no different to what they had to put up with. I've listed four and two I felt could possibly be enticed and back, and they would have to be for 6 to form a division. There's 6 teams in the South U19 league as well and they're getting by ok. Not ideal but better than nothing is where I was coming from. If Limerick were forced to drop to a second division of 6 or not exist at all, which would you opt for?


I don't disagree with clubs having a part to play in the demise of the A Championship. At the same time, it's not the place of clubs to prop up a league with reserve sides. Non-reserve clubs should have opened dialogue with each other, possibly an A Championship board and have worked with the FAI. I think it's a narrow minded view not to lobby and very much a junior sort of mentality.


The FAI should be helping clubs but clubs should be helping themselves as well and looking for solutions to problems. Not enough clubs have desire but I listed 8 clubs Mervue, Salthill, Tullamore, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Cobh and Fanad that took part in the A Championship. If it wasn't for the strife of clubs higher up, there'd be 22 clubs in the LoI proper with 8 a level down.

[sadloserkid]

If Limerick were forced to drop to a second division of 6 or not exist at all, which would you opt for?

Of course I'd prefer to see us continue in the six team league but I am a Limerick fan so that's to be expected. It wouldn't mean it was definitely a good idea. As it is I've to endure Limerick playing in a second division of eight this season but I'm hoping I'll manage.

Non-reserve clubs should have opened dialogue with each other, possibly an A Championship board and have worked with the FAI. I think it's a narrow minded view not to lobby and very much a junior sort of mentality.

The FAI should be helping clubs but clubs should be helping themselves as well and looking for solutions to problems. Not enough clubs have desire but I listed 8 clubs Mervue, Salthill, Tullamore, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Cobh and Fanad that took part in the A Championship.

I agree with both these points but therein (IMO) lies the problem, the interest just isn't there right now. In the little over a decade I've followed the league we've lost almost as many clubs from senior football as took part in the A Championship outright (St.Francis, Dublin City, Kilkenny City, Kildare County, Sporting Fingal and now Galway United). I want to see a thriving, widespread successful LOI but right now there's a lack of interest, money and ambition overall and that's hindering any real chances for progress. Until there are enough clubs with the intent to make the step up and the viable plans to make that happen we won't see any big increase in the number of senior clubs in this country.

[kerrysock]

The FAI should be helping clubs but clubs should be helping themselves as well and looking for solutions to problems. Not enough clubs have desire but I listed 8 clubs Mervue, Salthill, Tullamore, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Cobh and Fanad that took part in the A Championship. If it wasn't for the strife of clubs higher up, there'd be 22 clubs in the LoI proper with 8 a level down.

I think the FAI have helped clubs by disbanding the a championship and implementing a tight licensing policy. As sadloserkid said, the interest and money is not there. The FAI recognise that and they do not want to further damage the LOI by allowing teams with unstable budgets to enter the league.

[Mr A]

I think the FAI have helped clubs by disbanding the a championship and implementing a tight licensing policy.

[legendz]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...0-3031331.html

Gavin was giving away much when asked about moves towards one division. If the league does that route, is the league likely to have a combination of the first division and A Championship below this league?

[culloty82]

When the clubs voted against a 16 team premier, I think the earliest that decision could be reviewed was 2015, but it looks to be on the cards then - with four clubs joining the current four on the sidelines, some form of secondary structure would have to be devised by that stage.

[legendz]

Wasn't there something last year that the FAI wanted a single first tier with the first division and A Championship being effectively combined? The U19 league has that structure at present of national division and two regional divisions.

[legendz]

I had to go away with wounds after the second division was shot down!

With the frustration of Dynamos not been involved, is there any solution for getting new clubs involved in the league in a regional set-up, run over a summer season?

One suggestion I'd like to put forward would be three regionalised leagues of 8 teams located: north-west, east and south-west. Phase one: all teams playing home and away in each section over 14 games. Phase two: top 2 in each section going forward to a national division of 6, playing home and away over 10 games, with the winner going forward to a promotion/relegation play-off. The 6 teams left behind in each section could play each other home and away over an additional 10 games in effectively shield divisions.

[Dodge]

I'll say this for you, you're persistent

[citybone]

He is and i agree with him to a certain degree but we are just talking to a wall, the FAI wont listen and if the clubs want something like this they could contact the FAI them selves or organise something themselves.